Any steering issues with 454s?

[Matt300ZXT]

I'm gettin a 54 Chevy next Wed with the stock 235 in it. I'm looking at putting a v8 in it after a few weeks and eyeing a few 327s. I had a guy offer up a nice 454 with some goodies on it for $900 and noticed the crossmember style mount mentions it fits SBC/BBC/90deg V6 and was curious if anyone had run into any fitment issues going with a big block over a small block? Also concerned about the extra torque or weight, wondering if it puts any extra stress on the frame or old school leaf suspension.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Dan Bowles]

Steering box is VERY much in the way. You need to shift the motor one way and the box the other to stay with a stock box. I'd look into a 73/87 box swap if I were going to a V8 swap and definitely if I were doing a BBC.

[Matt300ZXT]

Is there a write up somewhere on the box swap? I've never noticed anyone say they had to move the box or swap it while putting in a SBC or BBC, guess I should do some more research. Just can't use the internet anymore because all it ever pops up is stuff for sale, rarely does it ever bring up links with actual information haha

[53lochevy]

They make some nice IFS kits with tubular control arms and rack and pinion which is far better that whats on it for your frame that I think are boltups not sure but seen them,, on the rear yes you need to strengthen the frame I would box it then you can send as much hp to it ya want just my opinion

[Matt300ZXT]

Man that sounds like a pain in the butt to put a SBC or BBC in this truck >: ( I don't wanna put in IFS since it costs a good bit and I have absolutely zero welding skills or hot rod building skills. However, I can swap a motor assuming it's only bolt ons...maybe I should just consider keeping the 235. That way I guess I could feel like I was keeping a part of my 240Z that I'm trading; with both having inline 6s.

[Houston54]

Let me see if I understand this. You are thinking of putting a big block in an advance design series truck AND use the original front suspension and steering?

You have no welding or building skills as you mention. It seems you think this is all just bolt in a go when in fact the type of project you are dreaming about here requires detailed thought, planning and execution.

Right now I just cannot take you seriously on this build. It seems to me you have not developed a build plan or researched this site or others regarding the details of such a project. I hope I am incorrect on that but until I see evidence otherwise I think your truck bed is full of the proverbial cattle dung.

[Matt300ZXT]

Well I forgot to mention I was looking at SBC and BBC, just figured the BBC was way bigger and would cause more problems, so if it wasn't a big deal then figured a SBC would be easier.

I don't want a BBC for huge power (it's just a stockish 79 Suburban motor) nor with the SBC, just want easier parts selection and the look/sound of a v8.

[Houston54]

I edited my earlier post after you replied to it.

If the answer to any of the following questions is NO then maybe you are not ready for this project at this time.

1. Have you graduated high school?
2. Do you have a steady job?
3. Do you have a garage?
4. If married is it a "good" one?
5. Have you researched how to do this project?

However it just fine to plan for it. Again, I could be way off base here but from my read of this thread and your others I do not think so.

[Matt300ZXT]

Ya know what, youre a dick. People like you make people asking ?s and trying to find information not want to mess with a project. Maybe if I could find some information on this site pertaining to what I'd like to know, I wouldn't have to make a post asking a question. I have found a whole 2 forums on the net that deal with the year model truck I'm looking at and neither one have any good information. Forget this site, I'll find my information elsewhere.

[Houston54]

I take it from your reply one of your answers, or all of them, was NO.

See ya.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Matt300ZXT

Ya know what, youre a dick. People like you make people asking ?s and trying to find information not want to mess with a project. Maybe if I could find some information on this site pertaining to what I'd like to know, I wouldn't have to make a post asking a question. I have found a whole 2 forums on the net that deal with the year model truck I'm looking at and neither one have any good information. Forget this site, I'll find my information elsewhere.

Please review the site rules and guidelines.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Houston54

Let me see if I understand this. You are thinking of putting a big block in an advance design series truck AND use the original front suspension and steering?

You have no welding or building skills as you mention. It seems you think this is all just bolt in a go when in fact the type of project you are dreaming about here requires detailed thought, planning and execution.

Right now I just cannot take you seriously on this build. It seems to me you have not developed a build plan or researched this site or others regarding the details of such a project. I hope I am incorrect on that but until I see evidence otherwise I think your truck bed is full of the proverbial cattle dung.

Originally Posted by Houston54

I edited my earlier post after you replied to it.

If the answer to any of the following questions is NO then maybe you are not ready for this project at this time.

1. Have you graduated high school?
2. Do you have a steady job?
3. Do you have a garage?
4. If married is it a "good" one?
5. Have you researched how to do this project?

However it just fine to plan for it. Again, I could be way off base here but from my read of this thread and your others I do not think so.

XIII. If you are a long time member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather then attacking them. We look upon our veteran members to use this opportunity to teach the newer members the appropriate message board usage.

1. I had an email from the user you're badgering, asking for his account to be removed due to your posts. Thats not acceptable at all.
2. This site was created by someone at the age of 14. Age has nothing to do with want or desire. Apparently not with respect, judging from your replies as well.

Please do not run folks off the site, if you do not like a user ignore them... if you do not like a post click x not quick reply.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by Liz

XIII. If you are a long time member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather then attacking them. We look upon our veteran members to use this opportunity to teach the newer members the appropriate message board usage.

1. I had an email from the user you're badgering, asking for his account to be removed due to your posts. Thats not acceptable at all.
2. This site was created by someone at the age of 14. Age has nothing to do with want or desire. Apparently not with respect, judging from your replies as well.

Please do not run folks off the site, if you do not like a user ignore them... if you do not like a post click x not quick reply.

I would like to add, that if you behave in this manner and only chastise instead of attempting to help members, then your stay here will be shortened also.

Josh

[BBEEP]

PM sent.

[Torbjorn]

all I can say to this is WOW. first off Matt, stay around, this is a great group of people with a few exceptions. maybe the other guy was having a bad day or something, but thats still no excuse. I like old cars and trucks and unfortunately dont own one at the moment. I also collect pinball machines (yes the full size arcade ones). If there had been an outburst like this in the pinball groups, that guy would have hell to pay. Like these old trucks, pinball machines arent made anymore (sans Stern in Chicago) and anyone trying to resurrect anything like this should be commended, not chastized. maybe this is a large project, maybe you (matt) arent prepared/qualified. How the hell is anyone supposed to know if not by asking questions?? I am a member of this forum for the community aspect of it because I am not fortunate enough to own an old chevy at this time in my life. I have developed relationships here that are more family than friends and I know for a fact that others have as well.

Bottom line Matt, dont let some guy posting from behind a keyboard diminish your project one bit. there are far more good guys here than those that will immediately slam you for asking a question.

[powerdriver 1958]

Matt, I did the small block swap a few years back,Cammed 307 ,2500 stall 350 turbo.Lotta fun in my old 54.......If ya have questions just ask.

[Houston54]

Too much drama. Let me offer the following before the tar gets too hot. My posts point out some elements that ANYONE thinking about a project should consider before starting something on the scale this person was promoting.

1. Have you graduated high school? (If "No" you need to focus on getting that out of the way)
2. Do you have a steady job? (If "No" then you will have a hard time funding a project. Even the scale alluded to in this thread will cost a couple thousand)
3. Do you have a garage? (If "No" then you will have a hard time keeping things protected from theft or further decay among several other reasons that should be obvious to anyone who had done a project)
4. If married is it a "good" one? (If "No" then you might want to budget a lawyer into the project or allow her to spend an equal amount on anything she wants)
5. Have you researched how to do this project? (If "No" then you will find many of the issues related to putting a V8 into an AD truck have been discussed with great detail, advice and information on problems)

Did the author come back on any of these questions? The answer is No.

The initial post in the thread contained this:
"Also concerned about the extra torque or weight, wondering if it puts any extra stress on the frame or old school leaf suspension.

Any input would be appreciated."

followed later by this:
Man that sounds like a pain in the butt to put a SBC or BBC in this truck >: ( I don't wanna put in IFS since it costs a good bit and I have absolutely zero welding skills or hot rod building skills. However, I can swap a motor assuming it's only bolt ons...

This is just not safe. At this point we have no idea of this person's age or capabilities as his profile provided zero information. Assuming this person is serious about the build and actually looking for input I would think he could have justified his position/plan and his desire to make this happen.

Had that been the case I would be among the first to try to point him in the right direction towards a safe ride. However he has departed and I am being pilloried as a bully. Hindsight lets me surmise this person was a youngster who was dreaming but he did not identify this. Instead he enters into discussion on an open forum with plans that would result in an unsafe vehicle in my opinion. I wish him well on his project but hope he gets the direction needed.

To those who feel I am grossly at fault here I offer my apologies.

To those who know me and may understand my motives my apologies for having put needless drama on this board.

[powerdriver 1958]

Huston54 , You completely missed the point.Let me answer your questions

Have you graduated high school?.... No my old man took off and I worked odd jobs to support my mom and 5 siblings. That makes me non qualified to build a truck?

Do you have a steady job? I didn't until i was 19....That makes me non qualified?

Do you have a garage? Now yes,But not till 1989 so my 54 was built without a garage and at least 18 others.....That makes me non qualified?

If married is it a "good" one?... This one is, the one before wasn't....That makes me non qualified?

Have you researched how to do this project?..Looks to me like he was when you thundered in.

Dropping the hammer on the new members is done else where,Not Here.

One mans idea to build a truck is just that.

Instead of working with him to find a better way you shut him down with your elitist attitude .

[chevyman95]

Originally Posted by powerdriver 1958

Huston54 , You completely missed the point.Let me answer your questions

Have you graduated high school?.... No my old man took off and I worked odd jobs to support my mom and 5 siblings. That makes me non qualified to build a truck?

Do you have a steady job? I didn't until i was 19....That makes me non qualified?

Do you have a garage? Now yes,But not till 1989 so my 54 was built without a garage and at least 18 others.....That makes me non qualified?

If married is it a "good" one?... This one is, the one before wasn't....That makes me non qualified?

Have you researched how to do this project?..Looks to me like he was when you thundered in.

Dropping the hammer on the new members is done else where,Not Here.

One mans idea to build a truck is just that.

Instead of working with him to find a better way you shut him down with your elitist attitude .

I don't know, sometimes kids need that kind of thing, I passed up on so many projects when I was younger that I thought was great but my dad (older, wiser) thought were dumb. Looking back on it he helped me out a ton because I would have had 5 unfinished projects for sale and no money because I didn't know what I was doing. If you get your underwear in a twist over that then maybe you ought to be doing something else.

1. He's not saying you need a high school education to work on a car, he is saying if you are in school you need to focus first on your studies and readying yourself for the real world. Some of the best mechanics I know were high school dropouts, of course some of the worst were as well.

2. I think you know what he meant with this one. If you don't have a steady source of income, aren't independently wealthy, or have parents that are loaded then you are going to have a hard time completing your project.

3. If you don't have a garage then you most likely don't have the necessary tools or equipment to complete a build of this magnitude. Yes I have built cars in my driveway but I had a garage I kept the tools in. It helps out a bunch.

4. If you don't have a good relationship with a supportive spouse then say good bye to your marriage. Seen this one first hand. Luckily never personally.

5. Yeah you are probably right on this one.

Bottom line is he was being realistic and the op was the one who started the name calling. Give Houston a break. This is a grown up sport.

[Matt300ZXT]

lol I'm 29, and have worked on more Z cars than I can imagine, however swapping a v8 into a Z doesn't involve having to cut off the frame and weld on fancy IFS, they already come with it It also doesn't involve parts moving and relocating to SBC it, just bolt in some brackets and drop in your motor of choice. So the oooooold school 54 is a WHOLE new can of worms for me and the site I'm used to on the Zs has FAQs out the butt to answer any possible question you can have, I haven't run across any FAQs on here yet that help me out but I'm sure at some point they will. So the site is a lot different than what I'm used to, as well as the truck itself, so I'll probably ask a few stupid questions here and there but I'm willing to dive in and get my hands greasy if I actually can get a good idea of what a particular portion of the truck needs from some of you experienced guys. Thanks for the kind words.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by chevyman95

This is a grown up sport.

Wrong plain and simple. We have watched countless "young guns" buy projects and LEARN here. The older crowd needs to get their head out of their ashes and realize that they are not all that. With age is suppose to come wisdom, not self righteousness.

I am glad Matt stated his age. I did not take him for a tween. I took him as someone trying to learn. To bad you guys can't deal with that.

I take it personal when someone comes in my house and runs folks off. I take its personal when someone comes in my house and talks trash about the younger generation. Its not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

[chevyman95]

I'm 23, started working on cars when I was around 17, yeah I asked and still ask a lot of dumb questions and yeah I had a lot of people tell me I was stupid. You can't get your feelings hurt every time someone doesn't use positive reinforcement and the nicest words possible to tell you that your idea probably isn't going to work. So anyways, I am pretty new here, used to other forums, didn't realize everyone was so sensitive, will try to keep that in mind.

Chevyman95 out

[Dan Bowles]

And now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Matt, there are a number of forums on the net. Stovebolt.com is one, JalopyJournal.com has a forum with an active AD social group, there are other social groups on Killbillet.com and beyond.

As to your question, yes, there are threads out there on the net to put an SBC in with the stock suspension. It isn't a simple bolt on because the truck was designed around the width of an I6. An I6 isn't a cheap rebuild, however, so you may want to look into a few things.

1. As I mentioned the steering box is in the way.
This can be overcome by moving it over via spacers OR by eliminating it and going with a 73/87 box. This is something you can do research on and most likely purchase from another member of this board over on that forum. I got mine at a junk yard last weekend. Took about 20 minutes to remove and that was because the darn steering arm was ON there. I beat on the pickle fork for about 10 of that 20 minutes. I got P/S box and lines and mount for a V8 for like $50 and the steering shaft to the column.

I got an end to a column so I can have a flat milled in mine and make it fit the shaft I picked up. There are posts around and even a magazine article on how to do this.

2. Shift the engine to the passenger side.
This is for more steering clearance. It can be done by using the mounts you are looking at (tubular) and not centering it when you cut off the excess pipe! Simple.

3. Trans cross member.
You'll probably make one of these or buy one of the kit ones. Easy enough.

4. Open rear end.
Research on this one. A Tri-5 Chevy car is a bolt in with 5 lugs. You can use '54 Chevy car front hubs to go to 5 lugs here as well. You can stay with 6 lugs, too. It is completely up to you but there are SO many more wheel choices for 5 on 4 3/4" (just about all Chevy cars and S10s had this).

5. Driveshaft
A decent shop can make you one for about $200. You might be able to find them in a junk yard that will fit but...make sure it's a right fit.

6. Front suspension. A SBC isn't much different in weight than a stock 235, believe it or not. The obvious difference is POWER. A 100 hp 235 vs a 300 hp 350 is going to put a bit more stress on parts (duh!) and the suspension is an old type. The frame is a C channel and you may want to contemplate boxing it. This is where it gets expensive and you need to decide how you'll run it and what you want from it. If you're just looking at a mile driver, what the heck, improve what is there with new bushings and shocks, tighten up the steering, and run it. It isn't a Z by any means but you already knew that...

7. BBC.
A 79 Suburban BBC is still a smogger. 200-250 HP. Not worth it in my book. You can score a running 350 for $500 with a TH350, maybe a 700R4. If it is something bigger than that, you are still looking at extra weight and fuel and size. I've not messed with a BBC in a stock set up so I'm no help here. I do have a built 396 that is now a 402 going into a '49 1 ton panel but it has a '79 heavy half front suspension under it (which is too wide so I've got some work to do there).

8. Welcome.
And remember ADD starts with AD. And the '54s are the ginchiest!

[Dan Bowles]

Oh, yeah,

9. Brakes.

Now that you make it go like stink...make sure it'll stop!!
Disc brake swaps are easy. You could look at an S10 4x4 rear or Camaro disc rear. You may need spacers depending on your wheel offset for the rear so the tires don't hit your bed. You can swap in a set of S10 pedals and put a power booster on your fire wall with m/c if you want (lots of S10 swap threads and many do this) or you can buy an underfloor kit for stock pedals. Depends on what you want to see and do.