Front hitch

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

I have a hitch I picked up somewhere for some reason I have long since forgotten.

So I my project 4x4 I would like to modify it to use it as a mount for a winch, and swap in a pintle hook to help pull people out if I need to. The rear would get a hitch too so the winch can be movable or removable which ever is more important at the time to me.

Is there anything I should look out for when I modify the mount then bolt it to the frame? Or should I straight weld it to the frame?

[Bigdav160]

I took the rear hitch off a Nissan Titan and shorten it. I plasma cut side plates so it will bolt to the same place as factory tow hooks. Sorry no pics, the Suburban is at the shop and the front clip is off.

One of the nice thing about this hitch is it acts as a small step for me to check my fluids.

[imjeff]

Don't weld it! Modify one to fit and bolt it in. Messing with the hardness of a frame can result in bad days.

[Mike C]

These truck frames are mild steel so you CAN weld them unlike the hardened steel frames of heavy duty trucks. But I wouldn't. Make yourself some plates that bolt on where the tow hooks go as described above and weld the hitch to those.

[fun in dirt]

Well mine is welded, cause my husband is an awesome fab man & welder!
Used sq tubing to tie the frame rails together & then added receiver tube (bought from local trailer supply shop). The option of taking winch in & out is nice, as we occassional relocate it for use on the car hauler trailer to drag more junk home.

[imjeff]

Just for clarification, a mild steel frame will change at the molecular level from the heat of welding. The material that's added is not mild steel. Without getting into the space lattice of steel, think of it like this. The weld is hard and much less flexible then the material it's connecting. During flex this causes stress at the toes of the weld that develop into cracks over time. It has little to do with welding ability. I'm a journeyman welder and spent years welding nuclear power plant piping...and I bolt stuff to frames.

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by imjeff

Just for clarification, a mild steel frame will change at the molecular level from the heat of welding. The material that's added is not mild steel. Without getting into the space lattice of steel, think of it like this. The weld is hard and much less flexible then the material it's connecting. During flex this causes stress at the toes of the weld that develop into cracks over time. It has little to do with welding ability. I'm a journeyman welder and spent years welding nuclear power plant piping...and I bolt stuff to frames.

This.

/thread.

[95 S_Trucker]

I do not want to start an argument, I just want to raise another point. If I buy I nice high quality hitch, why are the end pieces welded to the main tube? And why is the receiver welded to the main tube? Wouldn't the welds crack and the hitch fall apart when I'm towing a 10,000 pound trailer?

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by 95 S_Trucker

I do not want to start an argument, I just want to raise another point. If I buy I nice high quality hitch, why are the end pieces welded to the main tube? And why is the receiver welded to the main tube? Wouldn't the welds crack and the hitch fall apart when I'm towing a 10,000 pound trailer?

No argument from me. You can do as you like. I offer advice for free so you have minimal investment! To answer your questions. Your high quality hitch is designed to perform its task within it's rated capacity. It's over twice the thickness of your frame. It has bends and tube steel designed to carry that load. The steel is not only thicker, but designed for its end use. Your frame has neither the rigidity nor the strength to handle 10,000 pounds unless the load is spread over a minimum area and tied together by another assembly (your high quality hitch). I would raise a couple points to you. Why do high quality hitch manufacturers instruct installers to use specific bolts (strength and size) in specific places? Why do they advise installers to not to weld their product to a truck? Have a great fourth!

Jeff

[KSCHEVYUP]

Jeff-
Thanks for your input and sharing your opinion.
This board has such great info and other peoples knowledge to share.
I am still learning stuff here all the time.
That's what makes it such a great resource.
Ron

[DWilbur]

imjeff has a good point about welding and metal types. look at the Dunbarton Bridge and the Bay bridge in Ca they replace sections on both bridges and have issue with welding metal and it cracking to this day their are issue with the welds and metal cracking on both bridges. the experts have problems getting it right.

[burnin oil]

I think frame cracking is more of a wives tale. Yes everything said is true but the bigger issue will be how it flexes. If one part is ultra rigid and the rest of the frame flexes then something has to give. Big trucks have their frames welded all the time. They are stretched shortened and have different beds and hydraulics mounted to them. Usually the issue with the frames show up on dumps or roll backs where alot of wieght is put to the rear. Most of the time the front of the frame is more rigid from the crossmembers and cab mounts. Just saying.

One old truck I had got run off the road and ripped the shock mount right out of the frame. We welded her back up after drilling the cracks. Didn't have a problem for the next 5 years I owned the truck. The factory crossmembers showed wear from the rivits trying to shift but the shock was still good.

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by KSCHEVYUP

Jeff-
Thanks for your input and sharing your opinion.
This board has such great info and other peoples knowledge to share.
I am still learning stuff here all the time.
That's what makes it such a great resource.
Ron

Ron,

Thanks! I learn way more on this site weekly than I could probably contribute in a decade. It's the best I've found!

Jeff

[imjeff]

Originally Posted by burnin oil

I think frame cracking is more of a wives tale. Yes everything said is true but the bigger issue will be how it flexes. If one part is ultra rigid and the rest of the frame flexes then something has to give. Big trucks have their frames welded all the time. They are stretched shortened and have different beds and hydraulics mounted to them. Usually the issue with the frames show up on dumps or roll backs where alot of wieght is put to the rear. Most of the time the front of the frame is more rigid from the crossmembers and cab mounts. Just saying.

One old truck I had got run off the road and ripped the shock mount right out of the frame. We welded her back up after drilling the cracks. Didn't have a problem for the next 5 years I owned the truck. The factory crossmembers showed wear from the rivits trying to shift but the shock was still good.

I am baffled as to why someone would call something a wive's tale, then talk about how they fixed the very issue. I could argue the science of it, the metallurgical differences, etc., but my intent wasn't to start an argument and I generally don't argue much about the few things I know to be true. I sincerely hope folks that find this thread will do some more research on their own. It's verifiable fact. Frames crack. Toes of welds are the weakest part. Heating/cooling changes the characteristics of steel. Call a weld shop and ask them if they will throw down a butt weld on you frame. I would bet they will tell you there's a little more to it than that. Good luck!

Jeff

[burnin oil]

IMJEFF, I totally agreed with the metalurgy part of what you said. I know that it is a fact and that the weld will be the strongest and weakest part of the repair/modification. I do have a decent amount of a welding back ground from high school but nowhere near a journeyman welder. Wish I was. My point was that even though it makes a physical change to the metal it still can be done with great success without trashing the frame. The physical weld is less off the problem vs the rigidity and flex characteristics of the frame. Another example is my K20. It was originally a brush truck for a fire department. It had a full cage from front to rear and sort of resembled a rock buggy or mad max for us older folks. The cage was welded to the frame in about 10 places. The frame is still there without a crack. They key is keeping the frame either 100% rigid or the opposite and let it flex. Once you mix these characteristics is when bad things are about to happen.