84 K10, Not Getting Gas? Won't Run.

[SourTooth307]

Hey guys, I'm in a tight spot and I need help here. My 84 K10 has been parked going on three and a half weeks now because of a no-start condition. I was experiencing drivability issues in the form of sputtering and near-stalls under accelerator load that led me to replacing the fuel pump. Now, I bought a new one, installed it, hooked all the lines up right, no binds or kinks, everything seems to be on the right way. The engine cranks and cranks and cranks but it just won't turn over. I've removed and reinstalled the fuel pump and I'm pretty sure it only fits on there one way so I don't know what else to do. The lines before the pump have gas in them but the line after seems dry and so does the fuel filter, which I also replaced. Any help is very much appreciated, it's been sitting for three weeks and I'm starting to get worried my apartment complex is going to start threatening me to get rid of it soon. Plus I'd really like to go wheeling soon. Thanks in advance.

[donut]

Hate to ask, but.. Is the fuel pump pushrod where it's supposed to be? Fuel in the tank?
Is the line from the tank to the pump in decent shape? If that line has a hole, you can suck only air.

I have managed to install the pump with the pushrod off it. No pushrod, no pumping.

[motornut]

what kind of carb/filter set up?stock with a fram filter?
seen that filter get blocked by a back flow valve inside it
I had the same problems like you here:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=579621

[SourTooth307]

It's not a stock system, I have an Edelbrock carb with a metal canister looking external fuel filter I got from Napa. I can confirm that that particular filter worked with the old fuel pump and I still had my drivability issue so I don't think the filter is causing the problem. As for fuel in the tank, yes there's plenty in there. I did notice the rubber lines were splitting by the end, I suppose one of them could've split bad enough from being removed and put back on that it went past the clamp, but I'll have to check them out from start to finish.

I understand that the cam pushes the pneumatic arm on the pump down and that's how it works. Now, when I look inside where the pump mounts I see an empty space with a metal rod that comes down on a diagonal. I can't seem to find an end to that rod either on top or the bottom so I'm guessing whatever pushes the arm on the pump down is out of my line of vision or finger reach while the engine is off. I tangled with the idea that I installed it wrong but I've taken it off and put it back on a few times now and it only seems to fit one way so I have to imagine I've got it right. It was identical to the pump I was replacing with the exception that the lines going in are facing the opposite direction. At this point, if the lines are all intact I'm leaning towards a defective pump, but I want to be sure before taking it off (again) and taking it back to Pep Boys......

[imjeff]

Does it fire when you put some gas in the carb?

[donut]

What he said. That was my next thought.
I believe the fuel pump is driven off a lobe on the camshaft and it rides on top of the arm of the fuel pump. I have managed to install the pump so the arm is on top of the pushrod. (doh).

Personally, if there are any signs of cracking in a rubber line, they get replaced. Or any time they get pulled. Rubber line is cheap. Unless I know they were recently replaced.

If it starts putting gas down the carb. Does the pump actually pump?

[buddy_1]

Originally Posted by SourTooth307

It's not a stock system, I have an Edelbrock carb with a metal canister looking external fuel filter I got from Napa. I can confirm that that particular filter worked with the old fuel pump and I still had my drivability issue so I don't think the filter is causing the problem. As for fuel in the tank, yes there's plenty in there. I did notice the rubber lines were splitting by the end, I suppose one of them could've split bad enough from being removed and put back on that it went past the clamp, but I'll have to check them out from start to finish.

I understand that the cam pushes the pneumatic arm on the pump down and that's how it works. Now, when I look inside where the pump mounts I see an empty space with a metal rod that comes down on a diagonal. I can't seem to find an end to that rod either on top or the bottom so I'm guessing whatever pushes the arm on the pump down is out of my line of vision or finger reach while the engine is off. I tangled with the idea that I installed it wrong but I've taken it off and put it back on a few times now and it only seems to fit one way so I have to imagine I've got it right. It was identical to the pump I was replacing with the exception that the lines going in are facing the opposite direction. At this point, if the lines are all intact I'm leaning towards a defective pump, but I want to be sure before taking it off (again) and taking it back to Pep Boys......

The rod is what pushes the arm on your pump. You need to get it to go into the block toward the cam put the arm under it.

[motornut]

I'd check and replace any cracked ,problem looking hoses,
you may even spot the problem...
should be able to syphon steady from the front 3/8 main to long hose ,
lower,into a gas can,
or for testing you can run the pump from a gas can.
how many fuel lines to you have?

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by buddy_1

The rod is what pushes the arm on your pump. You need to get it to go into the block toward the cam put the arm under it.

My issue is I can't seem to get a visual on what's supposed to be pushing the arm down, I'm just kind of putting my faith in it coming down when the engine is moving. If I'm looking at the hole the pump mounts in straight on, over to the right (towards the front of the engine) I see the rod which has no beginning or end that I can see or feel. The fuel pump only fits in there one way and it would seem the arm ends up riding along the left side (towards the rear of the engine) the aforementioned rod. Now, I don't know if something then comes downward and makes contact with the arm that is just out of my line of vision, or if I'm missing something here that would make it work. I've tried to wedge the arm underneath that rod I mentioned but I cant find an end to it to get the arm under. Also, that rod seems to be too far over for the mounting bolts on the pump to be aligned with the holes on the block. I processed the thought that I may have been given the wrong part, but it seems to match what I took off, at least in the way the arm is positioned. I have another pump coming in today in case this one is defective, but if that's not the issue I'm completely stumped on what to do. If I am installing this thing wrong, I'm not seeing how.

[Zebb]

The rod has dropped down. The lever on your fuel pump should be under the rod.

[Dead Parrot]

My 75 did something similar. A increasing tendency to sputter, stall and finally quit running. Turned out to be the rubber line between the dual tank selector and the steel line to the pump. It had rotted so bad that you could see the inner fiber mesh and the missing rubber on the inside. Replaced that, fixed problem. For all I know, that was the original line the factory installed.

You mentioned split rubber. I would replace all of that before worrying any more about the fuel pump.

That rod is just a polished solid cylinder. It can be a PITA to keep it up in the bore while you get the pump in place.

I will second the question someone else asked, will it fire for a few seconds if you splash a few drops of fuel down the carb?

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by Zebb

The rod has dropped down. The lever on your fuel pump should be under the rod.

Yeah I watched half a dozen YouTube videos and figured that out. I'm still having an issue though, I can't seem to lift it up enough to get anything but a bent hacksaw blade under it and once I do that it won't go up enough to wedge the fuel pump in. Do I need to bump the engine or something to get it to give me more freedom of movement? I don't know if there's something wrong with my pushrod but it has some side to side play and won't go up very well. I saw a lot of YouTube videos where people are easily pushing these things up with screwdrivers but mine, not so much.

[imjeff]

You can hold that rod up in there with a dab of grease.

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by imjeff

You can hold that rod up in there with a dab of grease.

Yeah I saw that on one of the videos, but I can't seem to get mine to lift up enough to get anything under it that's not razor thin.

[imjeff]

It should push up in there so you can see the end clearly. Can you snap a pic?

[buddy_1]

Turn the engine over by hand using the balancer center bolt while pushing the rod up. Keep turning until you get to the low side of the cam lobe and the rod all the way up. Then use the saw blade to hold it there while you put the pump below it.

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by buddy_1

Turn the engine over by hand using the balancer center bolt while pushing the rod up. Keep turning until you get to the low side of the cam lobe and the rod all the way up. Then use the saw blade to hold it there while you put the pump below it.

Would bumping it work too? I don't have a whole lot of equipment.

[imjeff]

That'll work.

[Big Tex]

Mine wouldn't start after being parked too. But, it was more like months not just 3 or 4 weeks. I have a cheap clear fuel filter near the carb, and i could see fuel being pushed into there, but the carb wasn't getting any fuel. It would run for a second if i put gas in the carb. I finally pulled the top off the carb and it looked like it had coffee grounds in it. I guess that's what happens as the gas evaporates, as the truck sits. Appearantly the floats were blocking off where the fuel comes in, not allowing gas into the carb. I was able to clean it up enough to get it started, but had to take the carb off, disassemble, soak, and reassemble to get it to run good. That may be the issue after you sort out the fuel pump.

[Robert8096]

Originally Posted by SourTooth307

Would bumping it work too? I don't have a whole lot of equipment.

That will work but can be painful if you are planing to have your finger in there to feel when the rod is at the highest position. Doing it by turning the crank is the best way. You can remove the spark plugs and it will make turning over the engine by hand easier.

Look on the front of the block there should be two bolt holes (they should have bolts in them) Remove the upper bolt and get a bolt that is longer than the one you took out. Get the rod in the upper most travel position and the screw the longer bolt into the upper hole just enough to hold the rod in place. DO NOT TIGHTEN the bolt too much. Finger tight should be enough. Replace the pump then remove the bolt and put the original back in the upper hole.

The upper hole in this picture.

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by Robert8096

That will work but can be painful if you are planing to have your finger in there to feel when the rod is at the highest position. Doing it by turning the crank is the best way. You can remove the spark plugs and it will make turning over the engine by hand easier.

Look on the front of the block there should be two bolt holes (they should have bolts in them) Remove the upper bolt and get a bolt that is longer than the one you took out. Get the rod in the upper most travel position and the screw the longer bolt into the upper hole just enough to hold the rod in place. DO NOT TIGHTEN the bolt too much. Finger tight should be enough. Replace the pump then remove the bolt and put the original back in the upper hole.

The upper hole in this picture.

I see what you mean. Unfortunately I can't get the rod to go up enough to give me the proper amount of room I need to replace the pump. I can't even get a visual on the bottom. I've been bumping the engine little by little but I'm not noticing a change.

[buddy_1]

It rides free in the block. You will have to push it up into the block to see the difference.

[Robert8096]

Originally Posted by buddy_1

It rides free in the block. You will have to push it up into the block to see the difference.

This is why it is recommended to spin the engine over by hand while pushing the rod upwards. You can also remove the plate that the pump mounts to and gain more access but that really should not be necessary. If you can't push the rod up easily then you have a problem with the rod binding in the block.

[SourTooth307]

Originally Posted by Robert8096

This is why it is recommended to spin the engine over by hand while pushing the rod upwards. You can also remove the plate that the pump mounts to and gain more access but that really should not be necessary. If you can't push the rod up easily then you have a problem with the rod binding in the block.

Well, my issue is the rod definitely pushes up easily, but it's travel seems more limited than what I'm hearing it should be.

[Robert8096]

Originally Posted by SourTooth307

Well, my issue is the rod definitely pushes up easily, but it's travel seems more limited than what I'm hearing it should be.

My suggestion would be to make sure the fuel pump mounts correctly (pump rod on top of fuel pump arm) and then do a flow test on the pump. Place rubber hose on the pickup and discharge ports on the pump. Place a quart jar of fuel on the pickup side and a empty jar on the discharge side and spin the engine over to see if the pump is working. If it does then reconnect the gas tank line and repeat the test. Check fuel flow all the way to the carb. You can also use a fuel pressure tester if you have one.

I have never seen the fuel rod or fuel pump cam wear so much that it causes a no pump situation.(assuming pump is new) I guess its possible and you could replace or compare your fuel pump rod to a known working rod. Replacing the fuel pump rod is simple, it's the fuel pump cam lobe that will mean a good bit of surgery. It is built onto the cam shaft and would require a complete cam shaft swap.

If you are getting some fuel but you feel it is insufficient then you will need a pressure tester to confirm. You need around 5 to 6 psi for a carb setup. More than that on a carb and you risk floating the fuel needle in the carb thus causing flooding.

I think someone mentioned above checking all your steel and rubber lines for leaks,cracks and kinks (this includes inside the fuel tank) because this will cause low pressure.

You could also get a block off plate for fuel pump, electric fuel pump and pressure regulator and switch to a electric pump system.

Go get you a can of starter fluid and shoot some in the carb and try to start it. If it won't start on starter fluid you got something else causing your no start issues.

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