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Old 03-09-2017, 02:17 PM   #1
MASTERBrian
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1960 wiring questions

On my '60 Suburban, I've yanked out the old 350 that had points, I dropped in a different rebuilt, 1974 block, which will have HEI. I'm basically going back through and trying to clean up all the cut wires, crusty harness(s), etc and running new wires. The problem is there are wires I don't need, wires that were cut/spliced/etc, so the diagrams are somewhat helpful, but not totally.

To the starter 'S' terminal I believe that's the purple wire, which is still there I believe. It goes back to the ignition switch when the key is in the 'start' position, correct?

I don't believe I use the 'R' terminal, but one diagram I have shows a feed from that going to an internal coil distributor(which isn't that the same as the HEI?). Do I do this or not? First time I've seen it.

For the HEI, the RED wire will go back to 12+ always on power from the ignition switch, correct?

The green to the tach, which I don't have yet, but will add later, so it'll get wired into the plug at the firewall.

As for the alternator, I currently have the two wire style, but will probably upgrade once I start adding things back in like a radio, etc... On that I'll have more questions , but from the diagram I'm looking at it appears I'll run a heavy gauge (fuseable link?) wire from the battery terminal side of the starter(or + terminal post if I add one?) to the back of the alternator. I'll also run the red wire from the 2 plug terminal on alt to the battery terminal spot on alt and then what is labeled as brown from this will go back to the dash, to what I'm presuming is the gauge in the dash. I have both a guage and the idiot light, should I/can I use both? Anything special to wire in or do I just run the wire there....something mentioned a resistor if not using idiot light.

What I am somewhat confused on is the horn relay and where that comes into play. Again, I have the diagrams, but not sure they were followed last time when it was converted to a 350.

As for wire sizes, I think I can easily find that, but if you have recommendations that is great. I think 12gauge is what the factory used on the HEI's in '74 and a 10amp fuse. I doubt I need that much for the tach side, should 14 suffice? For the 'S' wire on starter, the oil, temp, etc, it appears the diagrams show 20g wire, because I don't want to buy a bunch of different gauge/colors of wires, I'll likely run 14 or 16, unless any of those need heavier.

I'll probably be back for advice in a few other areas, as I want to add a neutral safety, back up lights, etc...
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Old 03-09-2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MASTERBrian View Post
On my '60 Suburban, I've yanked out the old 350 that had points, I dropped in a different rebuilt, 1974 block, which will have HEI. I'm basically going back through and trying to clean up all the cut wires, crusty harness(s), etc and running new wires. The problem is there are wires I don't need, wires that were cut/spliced/etc, so the diagrams are somewhat helpful, but not totally.

To the starter 'S' terminal I believe that's the purple wire, which is still there I believe. It goes back to the ignition switch when the key is in the 'start' position, correct? Yes through the forward firewall connector, and the neutral start switch, if you have one, then to the key switch.Standard shifts have a switch on the transmission.

I don't believe I use the 'R' terminal, but one diagram I have shows a feed from that going to an internal coil (Points, the coil is external) distributor(which isn't that the same as the HEI?). Do I do this or not? First time I've seen it.

This is the R wiring going to the external coil (OEM) It relays a full 12 volts to the coil during starting only. Then in normal running a wire from the firewall block to the ballast resistor then to the coil Positive terminal supplies ignition voltage.


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For the HEI, the RED wire will go back to 12+ always on power from the ignition switch, correct?

Somewhat, there are several ways to do it but it must be key on only power. Some have spliced into the pink wire on the ignition switch, some like the cleaner look of pulling The ignition wire out of the firewall block and installing a new pink ignition wire, omitting the ballast resistor, to the HEI distributor.


Here's a diagram.

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The green to the tach, which I don't have yet, but will add later, so it'll get wired into the plug at the firewall. Follow the tach wiring instructions.



As for the alternator, I currently have the two wire style, but will probably upgrade once I start adding things back in like a radio, etc... On that I'll have more questions , but from the diagram I'm looking at it appears I'll run a heavy gauge (fuseable link?) wire from the battery terminal side of the starter(or + terminal post if I add one?) to the back of the alternator. I'll also run the red wire from the 2 plug terminal on alt to the battery terminal spot on alt and then what is labeled as brown from this will go back to the dash, to what I'm presuming is the gauge in the dash. I have both a guage and the idiot light, should I/can I use both? Anything special to wire in or do I just run the wire there....something mentioned a resistor if not using idiot light.

Read this for now and post back when you're ready.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=417872

What I am somewhat confused on is the horn relay and where that comes into play. Again, I have the diagrams, but not sure they were followed last time when it was converted to a 350.

The horn relay was used as a junction block for the simple earlier systems through the 66 years. The battery alternator and regulators all joined there and the power for the rest of the truck came from there to the cab. You are talking of re routing the power wires to the starter with fusible links and using the starter post as the junction.You might disable the battery gauge if you do this, since all the battery and alternator power runs through the ammeter on these earlier trucks prior to 1963.

As for wire sizes, I think I can easily find that, but if you have recommendations that is great. I think 12gauge is what the factory used on the HEI's in '74 and a 10amp fuse. Fuse is optional. I doubt I need that much for the tach side, should 14 suffice? You should get a harness for the tach. For the 'S' wire on starter, the oil, temp, etc, it appears the diagrams show 20g wire, because I don't want to buy a bunch of different gauge/colors of wires, I'll likely run 14 or 16, unless any of those need heavier. The S wire needs to be 12 gauge from the key to the solenoid.

The output for the alternator should be 10 gauge.
I'll probably be back for advice in a few other areas, as I want to add a neutral safety, back up lights, etc...
If you go to an internally regulated alternator then get a 12 SI or a CS 144 for reliability and better amperage output.
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Old 03-10-2017, 01:45 AM   #3
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Vette , I am getting ready to do the internal regulator alternator swap on my 72 K20, will the people at autozone know what a 12SI alternator is? thanks..
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:55 AM   #4
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

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Vette , I am getting ready to do the internal regulator alternator swap on my 72 K20, will the people at autozone know what a 12SI alternator is? thanks..


No probably not unless there is an old timer like me working there. Ask them for the alternator that fits a mid to late eighties Gm product like Camaro or firebird.
The main difference is the larger cooling holes in the back of the alternator.
Make sure that the clocking works for your truck. That means how the mounts are positioned so that the tension rod will tighten the belt.
Worst case is you can reclock it by removing the four case screws and rotating the housing.The hard part is locking the brushes until you get it back together.

this will answer any question you have.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wjSDnFhZGnvhSw

Be sure and read the last page of the site, it has the applications. VV
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:52 PM   #5
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

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Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim View Post
Vette , I am getting ready to do the internal regulator alternator swap on my 72 K20, will the people at autozone know what a 12SI alternator is? thanks..
LOL no they won't know that. If you tell em SI they'll prolly sell you an alternator for a Honda Civic 😆
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:24 PM   #6
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Thanks Vette...
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Old 03-17-2017, 02:46 PM   #7
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Hopefully the third/fourth time of trying to post this info will work....

The Alt is an SI alt and somewhere in the 40amp range, I believe. The wiring under the dash and somewhat in the engine bay is a mess to say the least, so the wiring diagrams, though somewhat helpful aren't real helpful on diagnosing what everything is. I also do have a neutral safety, but no clue if it works or if it's wired correctly. I tried posting a link to another thread from this forum regarding them, but now that's gone in the mess of posts not going through. I'm wondering if it matters what wire goes were on it and also how to wire for reverse lights, my 1960 didn't come with them.

That said, I hope this is the rest and if not, I'll fill it in later when I remember what I typed earlier....

- Pink wire from ignition switch goes to the HEI and I believe 12gauge is fine. It seems to make a junction at the fuse panel.

- The TACH wire from HEI, I'll add it to the firewall connection and worry about it later.

- The purple wire goes from the S terminal of starter to the Neutral Safety and then to the ign switch. It's 12 gauge.

- From the battery they had a cable going down to the starter BATT terminal and a smaller gauge wire going to the ALT BATT terminal. I'm assuming that's ok, even though the diagram shows coming from Starter to Alt. Seems cleaner doing it the way it was done. Since I am internally regulated at the alt, I'm guessing the horn relay doesn't come into play as much. In fact, they had spliced into the red wire entering the firewall near the master cylinder and ran a heavy red wire to the starter....at least that's where I think it went. I'll have to figure out how I wish to clean that up.

- From the Alt, they had the Red wire from the 2 wire plug jumping to the BATT terminal. The other wire was cut. Not sure of their logic there. My understanding is, since I have a Generator Light(might be nice to keep) and a battery volt meter gauge, I need to do figure this out as well. My understanding is the Brown wire should be 18guage and goes to the accessory power at the ign switch after a junction at the fuse panel. The red wire from this two wire plug goes to the light/gauge, but not sure how to wire both. Any tips there might be helpful. I can post pics of my gauge later if need be. I'm also trying to figure out why they seem to have added a separate light switch for just this gauge....again I'll try to post a pic.

- From the starter, I'll also run a fusible link(14gauge?) and a 10gauge wire to the junction/fuse block under the dash and then to the ign switch.

I know I forgot some stuff since I tried posting before lunch, but I'll follow up later.

Last edited by MASTERBrian; 03-17-2017 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:09 PM   #8
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

I realize I'm working on a 60, but I have this 64 diagram, which if I'm not mistaken is close and seems to show wire gauge as well. The question I have is do I match those sizes or not?

The main reason I ask is I'm told 12 gauge for the hei, but it appears the pink wire is actually 18 at the engine harness connector and 14 at the ignition switch. I'm told to run 12, which I'll do on the engine side....do I need to go 12 the entire way? Also, Is 18 gauge ok for the oil light? It shows 20 on the diagram
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Old 03-28-2017, 02:55 PM   #9
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

A few other wiring questions have come up, but I might have to supplement this with a follow up on phone to add the pics.

I have what is called a Flarestat Model 105 Signal-Stat. A quick google search seems to show it being for the hazards, but all it seems to do is work the Voltmeter lights and most of the lights have been cut on the back. I'll keep searching for a wiring diagram for it. The curious part is why they would use that to control the light on the Voltmeter vs just tying into the harness controlling the rest of the lights. I don't think it works the hazards any longer, as I have the turn signal mounted to the column.

There is a white 'resistor' or something mounted under the dash, but it is not hooked up....was this in fact a resistor of sorts and used with the old generator? Can it be removed and is it worth anything to anyone?

Then there is the mess of wires on a harness that appears to go nowhere and most of the wires were cut.

What about the flasher, I installed switchback LED's for the front park/turn lights. I know I need to replace the flasher, BUT....do I have one or two flashers being used? I have one that is definitely a flasher, but it's hanging. Obviously not original. When I was looking up under the dash, I noticed a 3 prong connector is that where it would go? All the wires were cut to it, but if that is for the flasher, maybe I can salvage it and clean up the hanging one. What about the silver object in the original fuse panel....what is that? At first I figured it was the flasher, but I'm not so sure.
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:11 PM   #10
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Here is the white part, I have no clue about....is it a resistor of some sort?

I've also loaded a picture of the harness that is hacked apart and with an end that goes nowhere. I want to clean out anything I can to simplify this as much as possible. My goal is to take advantage of the basic factory fuse block for as much factory equipment as possible. Then I'll add a 2nd block elsewhere for any added stuff.

In the pic of the harness is also what I'm pretty certain would be the reverse lights and the neutral safety switch. Is there an easy way to test that? Would it have been factory in 1960? I'll go back to diagrams, but most diagrams I have are 63 & Newer.

Then I've also included the fuel pickup in this grouping. I can't seem to find a replacement bolt down type. The 63 & up was a twist lock. I finally got an email reply from someone that sells the twist locks, but any reason I can't buy one of those and rob Peter to pay Paul so to speak? I have the tube and all cleaned up. I just need the filter and the 'resistor'?
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Old 03-28-2017, 03:27 PM   #11
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Last but not least is the flasher assembly.

Clearing this one hanging down is a flasher, but obviously factory wouldn't leave it hanging like this. Does it belong in the plug pictured with the lone flathead bolt?

IF this is the lone flasher, what is the similar looking thing in the factory panel? Is that the original flasher and original location? The bracket questioned above doesn't look factory either. What confuses me is, why would you relocate it. Did it even have a flasher from the factory? That's actually my guess, is it didn't and what I'm seeing in the fuse panel is something else, maybe part of the headlight dimmers?
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:03 PM   #12
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

Yes you have a little more wiring to do.my c10 looked like that.pick one problem work on that.mark the wiring that you know is right, that way it will become easier with each one you finish.we all will help as much as possible.
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:36 PM   #13
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

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Yes you have a little more wiring to do.my c10 looked like that.pick one problem work on that.mark the wiring that you know is right, that way it will become easier with each one you finish.we all will help as much as possible.
So far before I pulled the dead motor, most of the important electrical worked. So far I've managed to clean up the engine compartment wires important to the motor. I'll clean up the headlights and horn once that's all back on. Then comes the rear, taillights, fuel pickup, etc.Then I guess I'll tackle this mess under the dash..
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Old 04-02-2017, 11:02 PM   #14
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

The white part looks like a ballast resistor that was used to drop the voltage to the ignition coil. If so it will have about 1.8 ohms of resistance on the terminals.
It appears to be mounted upside down so the terminals will be on the other side of the view.

The terminal plug with the light blue and dark blue wires could be the windshield motor switch connector.
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Old 04-05-2017, 04:51 PM   #15
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

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The white part looks like a ballast resistor that was used to drop the voltage to the ignition coil. If so it will have about 1.8 ohms of resistance on the terminals.
It appears to be mounted upside down so the terminals will be on the other side of the view.

The terminal plug with the light blue and dark blue wires could be the windshield motor switch connector.
So if I'm HEI I can yank this white part, aka ballast resistor out?
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Old 04-05-2017, 05:49 PM   #16
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

I'm also a bit curious about the electric choke. I see talk about any HOT wire when engine is running. I also see talk about oil sensor, not oil sensor, etc....my oil sensor is one wire, so that's out I believe. The next is to run off the field wire on the alt, but it appears that becomes a more complex circuit, in that I'd be dealing with more wires and having to place a relay. If that's the best way, I'm up for that. Other talk is regarding the wiper power...but I actually have no clue if those have power, or if their wiring can handle an additonal load.

Next I've never gotten an answer on the HEI 12v+ wire. I was told 12 gauge wire, tied to the pink wire, but that pink wire is NOT 12 gauge, I believe it's only 18. Is that going to pose a problem or shall I replace it all the way back?
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:20 AM   #17
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

In the above pictures, if you see the pull switch next to the battery condition gauge, that appears to turn on the light for battery gauge and, though I haven't actually confirmed due to other issues that have the battery unhooked due to, the parking lights. Why the heck would they use this switch for that?

I am following a thread somewhere talking about how the park lights were just that until about '68, when they became more of a running light as well and thus people are jumping the wires in the main light switch to convert the pre '68 trucks to a running light, where the parks are on with the headlights as well. Maybe this was a solution of sorts for this. It's a sweet looking switch in my opinion as it lights up when power is on, but seems like redundancy. Any other reason for this switch? If not, I'll try to pull it out.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:27 AM   #18
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Re: 1960 wiring questions

My other electrical problem I mentioned above was a short, fried battery, starter, something....my truck was hard to start, then dead battery and maybe fried starter. Tried to check battery cables and burned the crap out of finger on negative terminal. Obviously something was wrong.

I've chased some very bad wiring to tail lights and that is now out, I've run it with new wire, now just need to hook it up on the cab side. Things are making more and more sense as I move along.

One thing I've noticed is that the aftermarket, column mounted turn signal, seems to be replacing the factory turns....I have the factory arm in a bucket of parts. Why did they tend to replace the factory? Besides the obvious, it probably stopped working....I'm really wondering if that was a common thing to do and IF the factory turn is easily repairable. Because of the column mounted switch, my gear selector indicator can't be installed, without modification to either the turn signal bracket or the selector indicator.
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