The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > Electrical

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-22-2013, 09:28 PM   #1
Jemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 148
GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Always seeking a new challenge but think I'm over my head on this one. I finished my '59 Fleet, now I'm restoring an old Mini Cooper and it's 90% finished. All that's left to do is the wiring. I have the engine, grounds, and battery wired. For the body I used an EZ wiring harness because I've heard the Lucas wiring is a nightmare. I have the body wired for the most part. The only Mini wiring I'm using is for the column because I want to use the Mini column and switches but marrying these to the EZ harness is a challenge. These cars came with the wipers, horn, turn signals, and dimmer switch in the column. The headlights and hazards are switched off a rocker panel above the shifter. Taillights and brake lights are separate.

What's remaining? I basically have EZ wires for Hazard, Horn, Turn Flasher, Dimmer Power, and Headlight Power plus the traditional GM column harness: stop light, turn signals, turn flasher, flasher, and horn.

Just need to figure out how they match to the Mini. I have the pins for the Mini switches. I know this is so outside the trucks we have but I'm lost. I have all types of diagrams and such. I'm just missing the key part, a brain!

Circuits to complete: headlight, dimmer, hazards, turn signals, and horn

Thanks so much.

Jeff
__________________
'59 Big Window Fleetside
Jemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 10:46 PM   #2
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,703
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Hi Jemo.
If I understand you what you have is just the Mini column and the wires that run through it. Everything else is GM. If that's the case all you need to do is to find out what wires in the mini column do what and then matching them to the GM harness should be easy.
I know the GM wires by heart but I don't have any experience with the mini wires.
Does the mini cooper have the integrated brake and tail lights or are they separate with bulbs for each? Is the horn button part of the column?
What's the color code for the Mini column?

Here's your wires for the GM column.

1 Black for the horn
2. Light blue- left turn signal on front.
3.Dark blue- right front turn
4.Brown- power wire for the hazard lights
5. Purple- power wire for the turn signals.
6.Yellow -Left turn/Brake in the rear
7.Dark green-Right turn/brake in the rear.

That's the best I can do at this point.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 11:15 PM   #3
Jemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 148
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

There are so many versions of the Mini wiring diagrams that it's hard to determine what does what but I've figured out most of the column wiring. There are 3 wires that go from the column to the wiper motor. There is ONE wire for left turn, ONE wire for right turn, Headlight brights, Headlight main, and horn. There is one remaining wire and I think/hope it is the wire that brings power to the column. Not sure though and not sure how to determine if that's the case except to remove the steering wheel and check which wires go to the turn signal switch.

Turn signals: I'm going to splice together from the GM column harness the front and rear left and front and rear right and split those and join them to the two turn signal wires in the Mini column harness and the hazard switch. For the stop switch wire (white) going to the column, I'm going to wire my taillights separate from the brake lights and run this wire to the back. Disconnect yellow and green wires and run these to the defined turn lights. Then connect the brake/turn filament together and run separate wire to the white stop light wire going to the column. Correct?

Wipers: don't concern me right now. Maybe future project.

The Mini horn wire out of the column, I'm just going to connect it to the black GM horn wire.

Dimmers: There is a wire for brights and main beam coming into the column from the Mini harness. The separate headlight switch has 3 positions: OFF, driving lights, and headlights. It also has 3 pins: main/brights, driving lights, and unfused live. "Headlight Power" from the GM harness goes to unfused live. This kind of makes sense because headlights are always powered. Driving lights would go to the brown wire in the GM harness for running lights? The "Main/Brights" switch maybe goes to the Mini "Main Beam" wire that goes to the column? But then what does the Brights wire coming out of the Mini column go to?

My last switch is hazards. The hazard switch has 6 pins. 4 clustered in a square and two sitting by themselves at the bottom of the switch. I read the following: "Hazards have a +12V wire powered all the time, the other end of the plug powered with ignition ON. With switch OFF, should be continuity across the 2 bottom pins. These carry current to the turn signal switch. The Four upper pins are for: +12V from hazard flasher, left signal, right signal, and light switch illumination.

From the Mini diagram, the single wires for left and right turn signal are split. Left and right signal go to the hazard switch and left and right signal go to the turn signal switch. I guess when the hazard switch is turned off, all current is sent toward the turn signal switch and when turned on, it forces everything to flash.
__________________
'59 Big Window Fleetside
Jemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 01:19 AM   #4
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,703
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Quote:
There are so many versions of the Mini wiring diagrams that it's hard to determine what does what but I've figured out most of the column wiring. There are 3 wires that go from the column to the wiper motor. There is ONE wire for left turn, ONE wire for right turn, Headlight brights, Headlight main, and horn. There is one remaining wire and I think/hope it is the wire that brings power to the column. Not sure though and not sure how to determine if that's the case except to remove the steering wheel and check which wires go to the turn signal switch.

So you have the dimmer and wiper switch on the column? Is that also the turn signal switch lever? I assume it is.

First off, the wires for the wiper motor on the GM trucks that run from the wiper motor to the wiper switch in the GM dash which are going to go to your steering column, are all ground wires. The wiper speeds and the windshield wash are all swiched on the ground side. So do not run any power wires to them into the column until you find out if the Mini is switched the same way.

The power to the wiper motor, on the GM truck wiper motor, is delivered by a yellow wire from the wiper fuse on the fuse panel to the power terminal on the wiper motor. It's a two speed motor on the GM truck, what you got on the mini?
We'll leave it there for now on the wiper motor.

Getting on to the headlight dimmer switch. The Gm harness has a blue wire from the headlight switch that carries power to the dimmer switch on the left floorboard. It gets 12 volts when the headlight switch is turned on, key on or key off don't matter.

This diagram shows the dimmer switch in the very bottom center with the blue wire coming in from the headlight switch. You can see the light green and tan wires coming off the dimmer. Those are the bright and dim headlight wires respectfully.

Looking in the upper left top edge is the wiper motor, with the yellow wire from the power terminal and the light blue and dark blue wires that go to the wiper switch for the two speeds on the motor. There's also another black wire that goes to the washer terminal on the wiper switch.
if you look closely at the yellow wire on the wiper motor you can see that it joins the ground wire for the wiper speed or the washer. THIS IS WRONG!!!!
It is wrong on the diagram but the manual shows it on the center terminal by itself with a loop over to the slow speed winding. Whoever drew this diagram got it wrong. I have the correction in another diagram for later.

Name:  cab 3,jpg.jpg
Views: 3587
Size:  102.5 KB

Here is the diagram of the headlight switch that shows the blue power wire going to the dimmer switch. It is in the bottom right. Refer back to the first diagram for clarity.

Name:  Cab-2-web.jpg
Views: 23538
Size:  104.5 KB

I would check the one wire that you have with a voltmeter for continuity with the main and bright wires. If it is the power in, wire for the column dimmmer switch, it will have continuity with one of them and not the other,and when you actuate the dimmer switch it should have continuity with the opposite wire and none with the other. If it works that way then you will have to match the wires with the blue, green, and tan wires from the GM harness.

The other possibility is that this wire is the power in wire for the turn signals and you can test this the same way with the voltmeter, by checking continuity between it and the two turn signal wires by moving the lever to left and right turn positions. If it works out to be the turn power wire, then it will be matched to the purple wire in the GM harness that powers the turn signal switch in the GM column.


Quote:
Turn signals: I'm going to splice together from the GM column harness the front and rear left and front and rear right and split those and join them to the two turn signal wires in the Mini column harness and the hazard switch. For the stop switch wire (white) going to the column, I'm going to wire my taillights separate from the brake lights and run this wire to the back. Disconnect yellow and green wires and run these to the defined turn lights. Then connect the brake/turn filament together and run separate wire to the white stop light wire going to the column. Correct?

You'll have a couple of problems with this setup.

First if you wire the front and rear turn signals together your turn signal will work ok ,but when you step on the brake all four lights will come on. You'll have front and rear brake lights LOL.
Remember the hazard wire is a separate wire than the turn signal wire and it sends power to the T/S switch which sends power to all four lights.

Are your tail lights separate from the brake/turn lights or do you have all three in the same bulb like the GM bulbs?
The GM tail lights get power off the head light switch via a brown wire.
This brown wire is fed by an orange wire from the fuse panel which also feeds the brake light switch and the dome light on the GM trucks.
SEE BELOW

Name:  Copy of Cab-1web panel lights.jpg
Views: 4717
Size:  101.1 KB

The orange wire is hot, key on or key off, so the brakes and dome will work without the key on. Looking at this diagram shows the orange wire coming to the headlight switch, and also the brown wire leaving the switch to power the tail lights and the front parking lights.

Name:  Copy of Cab-2-web.jpg
Views: 5711
Size:  107.9 KB


The other problem you'll have is that when you put either turn signal on, and the brakes are also on, the brake light on the corresponding turn side is cancelled out. This is done with the switching pins in the turn signal switch. If you have separate turn lights on the Mini, then you can run the wires like you said, and then run the brake and tail lights together in another bulb.

OK what's next. Oh yeah the horn. Do you have a horn relay? The wiring is simple. GM runs three wires to the relay. Red, green and black.
Red is power from the battery, green goes to the horn,and black is the small wire that goes to the column.
Inside the relay is a coil and a set of points. The red wire powers the coil and when the coil is energized by grounding the small black wire, the points close, and the red wire powers the green wire to the horn and it blows.

Hope I've helped.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 04:55 PM   #5
Jemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 148
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Wow, thank you. Lots of good info.

This first diagram is the headlight wiring. #49 is a light switch (I think for the driving lights), #56 is the headlight "flasher" switch, but then #50 is the headlight dip switch which means dimmer in British. #72 is the relay.


This next diagram is the wiper switch and motor. It also had a washer motor which I won't be using. #55 is the wiper motor, #61 is the wiper switch, #58 is the washer motor.


In this diagram, I'm just showing how the brake lights and taillights are separate. Brake lights are #70 and #31 and taillights are #52 and #53.


This shows the whole hazard, turn signal diagram. #1 is a direction indicator unit (?), #2 is the turn switch, #3 is the hazard switch, and #4 is the hazard unit (?)


This just shows the dome and courtesy lights. #26 is the dome light and #27 and #60 are the door jamb switches.


In the last diagram, I'm just showing the horn switch and wiring. Seems to be just like the GM.
__________________
'59 Big Window Fleetside
Jemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 04:56 PM   #6
Jemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 148
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Give me just a little time to read over all the info you gave but I wanted to post what I had as well.
__________________
'59 Big Window Fleetside
Jemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #7
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,703
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

It looks like the circuits and switches are pretty close I see some things I'll comment on.

pretty standard here but no horn relay
Name:  407871489.jpg
Views: 1186
Size:  53.1 KB


Same here with the dome light the orange wire on GM fuse panel feeds the headlight switch for the dome main turn on. Is there a separate switch on the Mini.

Name:  407871490.jpg
Views: 1277
Size:  53.2 KB


The hazard switch LG/BR wire looks like the brown wire on GM hazard switch power wire
Name:  407871491.jpg
Views: 1439
Size:  51.1 KB

Is 36 the dome light? It looks to be with the door switches. The headlights operate off a relay 72 whereas the Gm don't use one. The wiring could be powered by the red wire in the GM harness and the dimmer could be wired by a separate blue wire from the light relay.

Name:  407871492.jpg
Views: 1313
Size:  66.7 KB

At first glance if 61 is the wiper switch It is positive switched not ground switched which would make the yellow wire from the GM harness splice into the switch at LG/O. What is 45 just above?

Name:  407871494.jpg
Views: 1200
Size:  55.5 KB
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 09:13 PM   #8
Jemo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 148
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Right, I don't see a horn relay on the diagram either.

About the dome light, yeh I don't believe you can turn them on through the headlight switch like a GM. It just has an OFF/ON/DOOR switch on the actual light from what I remember. The dome light is #26. 36 = Brake Failure Light Test Switch which is one of the rocker switches next to the headlight, hazard, and fog light switch. I think it monitors brake fluid levels since it had a single reservoir MC.

The LG/BR wire coming off the hazard switch winds its way over to the indicator lights?!

Does the fact that the Mini used a headlight relay mean that I should add one because it will be too much for the switch?

About the wiper switch, can you explain more? 45 just above it is the Heater Switch! It's also on the same panel as the rocker switches (headlight, hazard, etc) and it looks kind of like an old choke cable. I guess you pulled it in or out to turn on. Weird, isn't it!

About the turn signals though, since they are separate from the brake lights, do you now think that splicing front and rear together will not cause me to have front and rear brake lights?

Last night I ordered a new hazard and headlight switch. I also ordered the plug that goes into the back. I had to order it from England so it will probably take a week to 10 days to get here.

I'll test continuity at the switches as you said but I honestly haven't done that before. I found a video on youtube - doesn't seem too complicated because I do have a voltmeter. I guess I'll figure it out.
__________________
'59 Big Window Fleetside
Jemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 10:25 PM   #9
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,703
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemo View Post
Right, I don't see a horn relay on the diagram either.

About the dome light, yeh I don't believe you can turn them on through the headlight switch like a GM. It just has an OFF/ON/DOOR switch on the actual light from what I remember. The dome light is #26. 36 = Brake Failure Light Test Switch which is one of the rocker switches next to the headlight, hazard, and fog light switch. I think it monitors brake fluid levels since it had a single reservoir MC.

The LG/BR wire coming off the hazard switch winds its way over to the indicator lights?!

Does the fact that the Mini used a headlight relay mean that I should add one because it will be too much for the switch?
It won't kill the switch but it lets more voltage get to the headlights and they will be brighter.

About the wiper switch, can you explain more? 45 just above it is the Heater Switch! It's also on the same panel as the rocker switches (headlight, hazard, etc) and it looks kind of like an old choke cable. I guess you pulled it in or out to turn on. Weird, isn't it!

Remember when I said that the GM wiper switch switched the ground side of the circuit instead of the positive like most switches? well it looks like the power side goes to the switch on the MIni, and it switches that to the wiper motor speeds. On the GM trucks the wiper switch has to be grounded to the dash to complete the circuit to ground for the wiper motor speeds. The Mini don't show the wiper switch connected to ground.

About the turn signals though, since they are separate from the brake lights, do you now think that splicing front and rear together will not cause me to have front and rear brake lights?

Did I see it wrong or doesn't the Mini have a whole different set of lights for the brakes. If it does you can just wire those together and join them to the white wire off the brake switch. Anyway you slice it, if you wire the front turns to the rears and the rears are activated by the brake light switch, the front's are going to come on too. On the GMs the turns and brakes use the same wires and filaments in the turning and tail light bulbs. They had to come up with a way to cut out the left brake when the left turn was on and the same for the right otherwise the guy behind you would never see the light flashing for the turn. He'd just see two solid lights. To cut out the brake light on the turning side GM came up with a different set of switch pins in the turn signal switch that powers just the turn signal wire and cuts out the brake light power.
The fronts have two filaments in each bulb but they don't use the turn signal filament for the brake lights so they just run two wires to each bulb. A light blue and dark blue wire for the turns and a violet color for the parking filaments.



Last night I ordered a new hazard and headlight switch. I also ordered the plug that goes into the back. I had to order it from England so it will probably take a week to 10 days to get here.

I'll test continuity at the switches as you said but I honestly haven't done that before. I found a video on youtube - doesn't seem too complicated because I do have a voltmeter. I guess I'll figure it out.
I have every confidence that you will.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:42 AM   #10
Desy180
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

I'm new to this issue and you helped me.
Desy180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:06 PM   #11
VetteVet
Msgt USAF Ret

 
VetteVet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan
Posts: 8,703
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Well thank you for the acknowledgement. I was introduced to the Lucas electronics mystery wiring when I got into the Triumphs and BSAs made in the 60s. The Zener diodes were a new style of voltage regulation to me.
Welcome to our forums and hope I can be of service to you at some point.
__________________
VetteVet

metallic green 67 stepside
74 corvette convertible
1965 Harley sportster
1995 Harley wide glide

Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.
VetteVet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2017, 03:12 PM   #12
Moose Monkey
Registered User
 
Moose Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: south jersey
Posts: 118
Re: GM wiring puzzle in Mini Cooper

Wow
__________________
70 c 10 daily Rider
Moose Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2022 67-72chevytrucks.com