47-55.1 S10 Frame Swap on 47-53 - Would you do it again?

[Nick_R_23]

Pretty much as the title says, for those that have completed or are in the process of completing an S10 frame swap on a 47-53 AD truck, what are your thoughts on the S10 chassis now that you’re doing/have done it?

Would you do the swap over again, or restore and upgrade the original chassis?

Were there any surprises, or unexpected setbacks that you wish you would have known about beforehand?

Was there any quality or fitment issues with the kit you used, or components that you felt should have been part of the kit that weren’t?

Any advantage of using a round body S10 frame vs the older square body S10?

Any other insight that would be good to know before starting one?

[mr48chev]

There is a place for swapping an S-10 frame and that is when you don't have a decent correct size original frame to start with.

It's 90's tech just as subframe swaps were 80's Tech. I subframed my truck in 1980 and it drove great but I had to hack a lot of inner sheet metal to install the nose. I wouldn't do it again as there are just far better ways to do it.



Too many guys go S-10 because they think it is what the cool guys do or because the guys down at the local hangout tell them that is what they have to do.
It used to be the cheap way when you could drag a dead S-10 out of someone's yard for anything from free to a couple hundred bucks., Now I see guys pay up to 3 K for one off a car lot and then pay the 1500 for the kit plus added money for the extras for the kit plus the money to swap the rear axle and then convert to a 4 link because they want to bag it. They could have got the same results with the stock frame and the right suspension kits for half of what they spent.

One thing that bugs me is that I see a number of S-10 frames for sale on the FB marketplace and Craigslist but always wonder if the seller came by the truck legally. I'd hate to be the guy who spent several k on his build only to have the law show up and impound the truck because they tracked the frame down as stolen.

[layinrocker65]

First thing you should do is not listen to someone who’s never done it before.

[Nick_R_23]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

There is a place for swapping an S-10 frame and that is when you don't have a decent correct size original frame to start with.

It's 90's tech just as subframe swaps were 80's Tech. I subframed my truck in 1980 and it drove great but I had to hack a lot of inner sheet metal to install the nose. I wouldn't do it again as there are just far better ways to do it.



Too many guys go S-10 because they think it is what the cool guys do or because the guys down at the local hangout tell them that is what they have to do.
It used to be the cheap way when you could drag a dead S-10 out of someone's yard for anything from free to a couple hundred bucks., Now I see guys pay up to 3 K for one off a car lot and then pay the 1500 for the kit plus added money for the extras for the kit plus the money to swap the rear axle and then convert to a 4 link because they want to bag it. They could have got the same results with the stock frame and the right suspension kits for half of what they spent.

One thing that bugs me is that I see a number of S-10 frames for sale on the FB marketplace and Craigslist but always wonder if the seller came by the truck legally. I'd hate to be the guy who spent several k on his build only to have the law show up and impound the truck because they tracked the frame down as stolen.

That’s why I’m wondering if it would be worth it for a full swap. I do NOT want a subframe, I’ve never liked those setups. I can currently get a complete late model S10 single cab long bed frame for $150, and at that price it’s worth picking up and sitting on until I’m ready for it. What sucks is that the kits are about $2,000 to do the conversion. I could probably do quite a bit to my original frame for that amount of money, but the ride and handling probably wouldn’t be nearly as good. The modern brakes, steering, and suspension geometry would be mainly what I’m after. I don’t want bags, 4 link, insane amounts of power, or anything like that - a stock V6, better brakes and handling over factory would be just fine with me.

Originally Posted by layinrocker65

First thing you should do is not listen to someone who’s never done it before.

Exactly why I said “have completed or currently doing one”

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

What sucks is that the kits are about $2,000 to do the conversion. I could probably do quite a bit to my original frame for that amount of money, but the ride and handling probably wouldn’t be nearly as good.

the cheapest MII front suspension is still around 1500 by the time you buy the rack and all the brakes. after spending that, you will need to weld or bolt it in, and after that you will have an uprated front suspension and literally nothing else. no motor mounts, no brake lines, no fuel lines, no column, no pedals, no rear axle, no driveshaft, nothing.

your $150 chassis will need about $600 in suspension and brakes, not upgrades, rebuilt. but if you take the truck apart you can use the fuel tank and lines, the pedals and master cylinder, the steering column, even the wiring harness. you will be lightyears ahead.

you dont need a $2000 kit, mounting the body with brackets you make yourself can be done in a long weekend. the bracket kits give you a set of instructions to follow and a help line when you are stuck. other than that, if you are handy at all and have some common sense, you can follow the how-to on this forum and save almost all of that 2k. mounting the body is the easiest part anyway, its the everything else that takes the time.

in this order:

figure out what you want. cruiser? show truck? racer?

figure out your skill. have you ever done anything like this before?

figure out your tools. 144pc craftsman tool suitcase? full automotive fab shop? lift?

figure out your space. you will need a two car garage for the parts you are currently working on, and at least a two car driveway to hold the other parts.

figure out your budget. Hussey put out a nice spreadsheet showing what he spent on his s10 swap and included what he gained back by selling. a full swap with gauges and a nice 350/auto with new rad and new lowering parts and used torque thrusts came in around 11.5k. I have done 8 swaps and I dont dispute his numbers, I save a bit by using the 4.3 auto from the s10, and all the wiring etc.


the best advice in the thread is dont listen to anyone who hasnt done it. There are guys who have done it and dont like it, too. I like it, it hits my efficiency harmonic, using a worn out AD that was headed for the crusher (I buy old grain truck cabs and come up with the rest) and a late model s10 chassis/drivetrain and putting them together for a whole worth more than the sum of parts.

[Nick_R_23]

Originally Posted by joedoh

the cheapest MII front suspension is still around 1500 by the time you buy the rack and all the brakes. after spending that, you will need to weld or bolt it in, and after that you will have an uprated front suspension and literally nothing else. no motor mounts, no brake lines, no fuel lines, no column, no pedals, no rear axle, no driveshaft, nothing.

your $150 chassis will need about $600 in suspension and brakes, not upgrades, rebuilt. but if you take the truck apart you can use the fuel tank and lines, the pedals and master cylinder, the steering column, even the wiring harness. you will be lightyears ahead.

you dont need a $2000 kit, mounting the body with brackets you make yourself can be done in a long weekend. the bracket kits give you a set of instructions to follow and a help line when you are stuck. other than that, if you are handy at all and have some common sense, you can follow the how-to on this forum and save almost all of that 2k. mounting the body is the easiest part anyway, its the everything else that takes the time.

in this order:

figure out what you want. cruiser? show truck? racer?

figure out your skill. have you ever done anything like this before?

figure out your tools. 144pc craftsman tool suitcase? full automotive fab shop? lift?

figure out your space. you will need a two car garage for the parts you are currently working on, and at least a two car driveway to hold the other parts.

figure out your budget. Hussey put out a nice spreadsheet showing what he spent on his s10 swap and included what he gained back by selling. a full swap with gauges and a nice 350/auto with new rad and new lowering parts and used torque thrusts came in around 11.5k. I have done 8 swaps and I dont dispute his numbers, I save a bit by using the 4.3 auto from the s10, and all the wiring etc.


the best advice in the thread is dont listen to anyone who hasnt done it. There are guys who have done it and dont like it, too. I like it, it hits my efficiency harmonic, using a worn out AD that was headed for the crusher (I buy old grain truck cabs and come up with the rest) and a late model s10 chassis/drivetrain and putting them together for a whole worth more than the sum of parts.

I’m just looking for a cruiser, but bang for my buck is nice too. If I have to spend money on a certain area, obviously makes sense to upgrade. This isn’t something that will be done overnight, and I like to see what others have ran into who have been through the process. I would like to end up with a truck that runs well, rides nicely, handles more modern, and most importantly - larger safety factor! As stated above, a 4.3 would be enough for my needs. Hell, the original engine only made 90 hp.

As far as tools and skill, two full size Snap On boxes, certified welder, lathe, mill, sheet metal shop, and currently performing three LS swaps and over 100 cars owned. Bring it on! I love fabrication projects.

One other idea I’ve rolled around, is using a 96-01 Ford Explorer frame as opposed to an S10. For one, I already have one, it’s free! It does offer quite a few additional benefits from the factory, such as:

*Beefer overall frame vs S10. More comparable to full-size trucks.
*IFS suspension, easily convertible from 2wd to 4wd with a simple spindle change.
*4 wheel disc brakes.
*Rack and pinion steering.
*Tapered “A” frame similar to OEM frame, also fairly flat across the top.
*8.8” rear axle, 3.73 gears, 31 spline axles, posi.
*Traction bars.
*Panhard bar.
*Internal rear parking brake.
*Frame has a blank “straight” spot for extremely easy frame lengthening.
*Track width is nearly identical between both vehicles. Eliminates the need for 2” spacers on the S10 swap.

Obviously this would require a bit more custom work, nothing would be off the shelf. But it’s hard to argue that there would be a few “stock” benefits that would be costly to add to either the OEM or S10 frame.

[joedoh]

look through the s10 swap how to in the FAQ section. you can even find my first questions on a 47-53 swap in there. skymangs is a dynamite human being and still aanswers questions.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632686

I dont think you would need a mounting kit, but lots of good ones out there if you do. I like using the 98+ s10 donors, better engine, better electronics, better fueling. if you ever wanted to swap an LS style engine the 98+ just needs an adapter harness and 2000+ can even use the same pcm.

look through the build threads in the project section, lots of different ways to solve the same problems. I mentioned hussey, he has a build thread with a second mount design too.

I dont like the 98+ ford explorer IFS, ford always seems to use too short a spindle and it makes it hard to lower without crazy camber unless you raise the upper mount. the rest all sounds good though, rack steering is a big dea with the front sheetmetal, you wont need to cut it out like I do an a s10 steering box.

good luck!

[dsraven]

hey, if you already have the explorer,have lots of tools and fab skills/knowledge, wanna do something not done with an AD before-at least not all the time, then I would say go for it. keep the old frame and stuff until you're done and that way you can always go back, unless you change the original mounts etc. front sheet metal will likely need to be cut up to fit over the explorer frame and suspension but, like joedoh says, you could scrounge up some from somewhere if you decide to go back to the stock frame.
grab a dimension diagram of the old truck and the newer frame. overlay the two and see what sticks out for problems. like you say, a lot of the stuff guys want in their old truck the new frame comes with. is the frame a 4x4 or a 2wd? you mentioned you could swap TO a 4x4. are you looking to lift the old truck or you just wanted the awd aspect of the 4x4 option for towing, stability etc?
I have swapped my 57 gmc on to an 04 gmc envoy awd with stock inline 6. yup, lots of custom work but I enjoy doing stuff like that and it is a challenge. is your explorer a complete running unit or just a bare frame and running gear? for a swap like this it is always nice to start with a complete running unit because a lot of the stuff you need is there that way. it does take some space for storage though.
if you have some pics of what you have top work with that would be great for us to see.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by layinrocker65

First thing you should do is not listen to someone who’s never done it before.

That makes no sense at all. You can't get advice on how to do it from someone who has never done it, but you can get advice from someone who has never done it on how they did without it.

I never had done a frame swap, but I have done a lot of similar things building cars and trucks and have learned one thing for sure, often you are simply swapping time, money and work from one to another, that is all you are doing.

Secondly, the number one thing to ask yourself "What are my expectations of my truck?" If your expectations is to pull a boat trailer on the weekends out to the lake, a frame swap may be a good way to go. Do you live on windy mountain roads that you drive every single day? Yep, what the heck, that frame swap may be a way to go. Are you driving it around town every few weekends to get togethers at the In and out burger, that frame swap is going to be a terrible waste of time, work and money.

First off, MOST of us would be just fine with a dropped axle from SIDS along with the drag link conversion and dropped springs. Done deal, it's lowered and it rides sweet. Or a Mustang II conversion, done deal, drives sweet. Being the rear of the frame is EXACTLY the same 1950 to 2005 S10, why do the whole frame when the front is all that changes?

There are SOOOOOOO many different ways to upgrade the stock frame, it makes way more sense to me. Now, have I done the S10 "swap", nope. But I have seen all that has to be changed and it just makes more sense to leave the stock frame to me.

This is all my advice, not calling anyone names or saying they are stupid or anything for using an S10 frame. We all see things different. My point is to think about it, what are your expectations, REAL expectations of your truck. I drove mine thousands upon thousands of miles with the stock brakes, axles and what not. Drove it every single day commuting in the SF bay area traffic. Drove it 95 mph in 14:50 seconds at the drags. Pulled a camp trailer occasionally, and it worked fine for me, never had the axle fly off doing down the highway or shake my teeth out of my head, it worked for me. And now on the rebuilt, a nice stock powder coated frame, dropped axle, modern springs, and I can't wait to drive it every single day again.

Brian

[Nick_R_23]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Secondly, the number one thing to ask yourself "What are my expectations of my truck?" If your expectations is to pull a boat trailer on the weekends out to the lake, a frame swap may be a good way to go. Do you live on windy mountain roads that you drive every single day? Yep, what the heck, that frame swap may be a way to go. Are you driving it around town every few weekends to get togethers at the In and out burger, that frame swap is going to be a terrible waste of time, work and money.

First off, MOST of us would be just fine with a dropped axle from SIDS along with the drag link conversion and dropped springs. Done deal, it's lowered and it rides sweet. Or a Mustang II conversion, done deal, drives sweet. Being the rear of the frame is EXACTLY the same 1950 to 2005 S10, why do the whole frame when the front is all that changes?

I have to say, I vastly disagree. I think everyone will tell you that the whole point of this hobby is to have fun. The heart of hot rodding is improving what you have with what you can, to make your car more enjoyable! I’ll tell a little story here. I’ve always loved any kind of old car, doesn’t matter what kind it is - hotrod, Classic, muscle car, customs, cruisers, or original restos - they’re all cool! But when I was around 22/23 years old, I picked up a 1948 Plymouth Special Deluxe that was ALL ORIGINAL. 6 volt electrical, 4 wheel non-self adjusting drum brakes, non-synchro trans, manual steering and brakes, I believe it did have IFS though. I thought it was the greatest thing ever! A true classic, exactly “how they used to be”. I knew it was exactly what I wanted to drive, “who needs all that fancy new crap?” I would say...until I daily drove it. It was fun at first, but that fun quickly wore off. It became a chore to drive. You had to pre-plan your stops wayyyy in advance, and god forbid an emergency stop was necessary. It wouldn’t do highway speeds, so merging, or even cruising on the highway would result in tailgating, or people passing dangerously. I live in a rather hilly area, so manipulating the clutch and 3 on the tree was a constant battle. The car had considerable bump steer, and loved to spontaneously attempt its own lane changes, which was made worse by the manual steering. Eventually, it was driven less and less, until it was reserved for Saturday nights, such as going to the movies or grab a burger in town, and eventually just parked completely. I ended up selling the car - not strictly because of the old tech, but because it was not fun to drive. I didn’t want to be in it.

If I could have this classic body on a brand new chassis with every modern feature, I would do it in a heartbeat. Comfortable, fun to drive, and classic looks? Sounds like perfection to me. Unfortunately, that’s not realistic or affordable for most people. That’s why the “retro” cars, such as the modern Camaros, Challengers, and Mustangs have sold so well - it’s a reminiscent of the classics that everyone used to enjoy, but with modern features that the majority of people can attain. That’s also why it’s popular to perform a frame swap, as you get quite a few upgrades in one go. Yes, they’re a lot of work, but I’d argue less work than bringing a 70 year old, under-engineered frame up to modern specs. Let’s face it, these were intended for 90 HP and 50 MPH. We far exceed that these days. Even dropping in a bone stock 5.3L on an original frame, is a 300% increase in power with no additional strength being added.

So in short, I think everybody builds their ride with the expectation that they want to have fun in it. The more comfortable it is to get in and go, the more likely I am spend more time behind the wheel. 1940’s-1950’s tech will not do that for me, and not for many others considering the overwhelming amount of modern engines, fuel injection, disc brakes, IFS, rear axle, suspension, steering, or complete frame upgrades out there.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by Nick_R_23

I have to say, I vastly disagree. I think everyone will tell you that the whole point of this hobby is to have fun. The heart of hot rodding is improving what you have with what you can, to make your car more enjoyable! I’ll tell a little story here. I’ve always loved any kind of old car, doesn’t matter what kind it is - hotrod, Classic, muscle car, customs, cruisers, or original restos - they’re all cool! But when I was around 22/23 years old, I picked up a 1948 Plymouth Special Deluxe that was ALL ORIGINAL. 6 volt electrical, 4 wheel non-self adjusting drum brakes, non-synchro trans, manual steering and brakes, I believe it did have IFS though. I thought it was the greatest thing ever! A true classic, exactly “how they used to be”. I knew it was exactly what I wanted to drive, “who needs all that fancy new crap?” I would say...until I daily drove it. It was fun at first, but that fun quickly wore off. It became a chore to drive. You had to pre-plan your stops wayyyy in advance, and god forbid an emergency stop was necessary. It wouldn’t do highway speeds, so merging, or even cruising on the highway would result in tailgating, or people passing dangerously. I live in a rather hilly area, so manipulating the clutch and 3 on the tree was a constant battle. The car had considerable bump steer, and loved to spontaneously attempt its own lane changes, which was made worse by the manual steering. Eventually, it was driven less and less, until it was reserved for Saturday nights, such as going to the movies or grab a burger in town, and eventually just parked completely. I ended up selling the car - not strictly because of the old tech, but because it was not fun to drive. I didn’t want to be in it.

If I could have this classic body on a brand new chassis with every modern feature, I would do it in a heartbeat. Comfortable, fun to drive, and classic looks? Sounds like perfection to me. Unfortunately, that’s not realistic or affordable for most people. That’s why the “retro” cars, such as the modern Camaros, Challengers, and Mustangs have sold so well - it’s a reminiscent of the classics that everyone used to enjoy, but with modern features that the majority of people can attain. That’s also why it’s popular to perform a frame swap, as you get quite a few upgrades in one go. Yes, they’re a lot of work, but I’d argue less work than bringing a 70 year old, under-engineered frame up to modern specs. Let’s face it, these were intended for 90 HP and 50 MPH. We far exceed that these days. Even dropping in a bone stock 5.3L on an original frame, is a 300% increase in power with no additional strength being added.

So in short, I think everybody builds their ride with the expectation that they want to have fun in it. The more comfortable it is to get in and go, the more likely I am spend more time behind the wheel. 1940’s-1950’s tech will not do that for me, and not for many others considering the overwhelming amount of modern engines, fuel injection, disc brakes, IFS, rear axle, suspension, steering, or complete frame upgrades out there.

Yep, I hate "hot rods" and all those guys who cut up these trucks. LOL "negative posts" someone else said, HUH? I didn't do any beating or screaming I said THINK ABOUT IT that is all I said.

Yeah, damn it, those hotrodders, I chopped the top when I was 16, put a Mid Eng 401 Buick with the carb between the seats in it when I was 20, drove it like that for 15 years, tore it apart for a rebuild (that was stupid) now the top is chopped, the cab is sectioned it will have a 53 Corvette engine in it, yeah, f-ing hot rodders!

All I am saying is THINK ABOUT IT! Some of you who did the swap it was perfect for you, others that do it they made a mistake, never finished it or it was simply a waste of time and money and work because they didn't NEED it. I LOVE cars, I have driving to the drag strip with the headers uncapped and slicks on from my house in my 65 Buick Gran Sport that was SERIOUSLY set up for handling that I would drive it like it was a friggin Porsche through the winding mountain roads. I have also driven a stone stock 59 Rambler American with a flat head in it every single day to work (drum brakes and a single reservoir master cylinder, OH THE HORRORS) I have had a full on handling set up SHO Taurus I drove every day, I LOVE cars and hot rods.

But every mod isn't for everyone and I just said to THINK ABOUT IT, look at your expectations of the truck! I had done a Camaro clip on my truck and that was the plan. Then I drove a co-workers AD with a dropped axle and nice springs and such and was BLOWN AWAY at how nice it drove. I sold the clipped frame and got a stock one because it made more sense to me and my expectations of my truck.

All I am saying it think about it, it's not a MUST to, disc brakes are not a MUST do, IFS is not a MUST do, there are many ways to build your hot rod truck and have fun.

That is all I am saying. Geeeez


Brian

[Nick_R_23]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

All I am saying is THINK ABOUT IT! Some of you who did the swap it was perfect for you, others that do it they made a mistake, never finished it or it was simply a waste of time and money and work because they didn't NEED it. I LOVE cars, I have driving to the drag strip with the headers uncapped and slicks on from my house in my 65 Buick Gran Sport that was SERIOUSLY set up for handling that I would drive it like it was a friggin Porsche through the winding mountain roads. I have also driven a stone stock 59 Rambler American with a flat head in it every single day to work (drum brakes and a single reservoir master cylinder, OH THE HORRORS) I have had a full on handling set up SHO Taurus I drove every day, I LOVE cars and hot rods.

But every mod isn't for everyone and I just said to THINK ABOUT IT, look at your expectations of the truck! I had done a Camaro clip on my truck and that was the plan. Then I drove a co-workers AD with a dropped axle and nice springs and such and was BLOWN AWAY at how nice it drove. I sold the clipped frame and got a stock one because it made more sense to me and my expectations of my truck.

All I am saying it think about it, it's not a MUST to, disc brakes are not a MUST do, IFS is not a MUST do, there are many ways to build your hot rod truck and have fun.

That is all I am saying. Geeeez


Brian

I don't want to come off as an ass, but I've already stated multiple times that this is not the route I want to take, so you're wasting your breath here. I'm glad you are happy with leaving everything alone under your cars, but I've not only thought about it, but experienced it. Aside from upgrading for comfort or for fun, I do not want 1940's components under a truck that I plan on driving at highway speeds. The technology worked for it's time, but it's 70+ years later. Speed limits are higher, roads are more populated, and new cars can stop at probably 1/4 of the distance of what this truck ever could. Modern cars can stop, start, turn, and maneuver much, much quicker than anything from this era. I'm not putting mine, a passengers', or another drivers' life at risk because I chose to build and operate a vehicle that is not equipped for modern conditions. So yes, in my eyes those things are a must do.

Also, there is no way that a Mid 60's GM Intermediate on slicks has handling anywhere near like a Porsche. I think your perception of handling and braking characteristics between classic and modern vehicles is completely skewed.

[mongocanfly]

Russ (joedoh) will surely chime in...hes probably done more of them than anyone

[joedoh]

by the way, all the mounting kits for sale only mount the body and associated. thats it. steering, pedals, wiring, brake lines, fuel lines, cooling system, hvac, gauges, interior, literally anything that isnt the cab, fenders, running boards, and bumpers is not included in the kit.

[johnny209]

I just did it using the coffee and customs mounting kit. Between the kit and getting a s10 frame that was already linked and bagged it was the best $1700 bucks I ever spent. And it took a weekend to do the complete swap. I see the pros and cons to both the s10 and the factory frame.

[Nick_R_23]

I’ll check that thread and build out, thanks for the link!

The IFS isn’t a big deal, I didn’t plan on going low with the truck. Matching stock height would be great, if I could even get it down a little over how it sat originally, depending on how well the body mounts, I’d be perfectly happy with that too.

And yes - R&P, 4 wheel discs, and IFS would all be huge upgrades without having the major expense involved. Bonus points for it all being off the shelf replacement parts, AND not pieced together from many different vehicles.

[MiraclePieCo]

I have a friend whose full-time business is building hotrod AD trucks. He'll do them any way the customer wants: original frame, front clip, or S10 frame. He STRONGLY prefers the original frame. This is a business owner who counts every hour he works on these trucks. He says that by the time he builds all the body mounts etc, he has lots more hours into an S10 conversion.

So far I've done one each way: S10, and original frame. I too prefer the original frame because it was made to fit the body and has all the curves in the right places instead of having the body sitting up on stalks.

S10s are trendy, especially among the mini-truck crowd who've migrated into hot rods but are still more comfortable working with the S10 platform. Unfortunately, the majority of guys who do their first S10 conversion get the front wheel placement wrong, essentially ruining the truck.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by MiraclePieCo

S10s are trendy, especially among the mini-truck crowd who've migrated into hot rods but are still more comfortable working with the S10 platform.

you keep saying this, I dont think it means what you think it means. i came from minitrucks in the 90s and 00s, where changing suspensions and heavy frame mods were normal, including a couple full frame builds, building new body mounts, etc. I dont have a preference for the s10 based on comfort of any of it, havent ever seen a single person I knew from then do an S10 AD, and I read all the project threads, I havent ever seen anyone say "I used to build minitrucks and this is what I like". so this has to be an assumption of yours, an incorrect one.

couple that with the https://steelcity73.wixsite.com/advanced-engineering/kit-components website which was launched in 2002 and had said (they have updated the website, sold the patterns to a new company after a shop fire) they had been developing S10 AD kits from 1996, thats a 24 year trend so far.

my comfort with the s10 frame comes from the fact that it comes with everything that costs more for keeping the original frame, highway rear axle, brake booster lines and disc front brakes, fuel tank and lines. if you think getting the front wheels wrong on a chassis swap is a problem unique to it, then you havent read enough project threads asking about axle centerline placement on MII. I also like that I dont have to keep a list of MII kit components handy to buy wear items, and that when I do need parts I dont need to order them in, every parts store even the ones in little mud huts have the s10 components in stock. when I want to lower it, I can have inexpensive spindles and springs on my doorstep in a couple days. lastly, starting with an original frame requires having an original frame. most AD trucks I buy are just cabs, or have been cut in half to make trailers out of. I think I have had a sum total of one 1/2 ton shortbed frame, a 41, and it was in such poor shape with cracks and needing boxing plates, it wouldnt have made sense to start with it.

[Tempest67]

to Nick R 23, I am getting close to driving my S10 swap project, and I would definitely do another.

the upgrade in steering and suspension is a proven GM design built right into the S10 frame, you can't beat that.

Don't get hung up on the cab mounts, I made mine from 4x6 steel tubes in an afternoon with cutting/grinding disks on my 4 1/2 inch grinder..... you don't need a kit with all the info that this website provides.

If you have a welder, and basic fab skills (that is about all I have) you will be fine.

My only concern is the use of the wheel spacers, but it seems like a lot of guys use them,so they must work.

Good Luck with whatever you decide.

[weim55]

Originally Posted by joedoh

you keep saying this, I dont think it means what you think it means. i came from minitrucks in the 90s and 00s, where changing suspensions and heavy frame mods were normal, including a couple full frame builds, building new body mounts, etc. I dont have a preference for the s10 based on comfort of any of it, havent ever seen a single person I knew from then do an S10 AD, and I read all the project threads, I havent ever seen anyone say "I used to build minitrucks and this is what I like". so this has to be an assumption of yours, an incorrect one.

couple that with the https://steelcity73.wixsite.com/advanced-engineering/kit-components website which was launched in 2002 and had said (they have updated the website, sold the patterns to a new company after a shop fire) they had been developing S10 AD kits from 1996, thats a 24 year trend so far.

my comfort with the s10 frame comes from the fact that it comes with everything that costs more for keeping the original frame, highway rear axle, brake booster lines and disc front brakes, fuel tank and lines. if you think getting the front wheels wrong on a chassis swap is a problem unique to it, then you havent read enough project threads asking about axle centerline placement on MII. I also like that I dont have to keep a list of MII kit components handy to buy wear items, and that when I do need parts I dont need to order them in, every parts store even the ones in little mud huts have the s10 components in stock. when I want to lower it, I can have inexpensive spindles and springs on my doorstep in a couple days. lastly, starting with an original frame requires having an original frame. most AD trucks I buy are just cabs, or have been cut in half to make trailers out of. I think I have had a sum total of one 1/2 ton shortbed frame, a 41, and it was in such poor shape with cracks and needing boxing plates, it wouldnt have made sense to start with it.

Joedoh,
With the experience you have I’m curious if you could answer a couple questions: your own driving impressions on the finished product, what are some of your favorite things about the swap outcome, and what are some of your least favorite things about the swap outcome? If I myself were to go to the S-10route I want a truck that appears as completely stock as possible. Maybe a couple inches lower front and back but nothing more. Is that possible with the stock S 10 suspension?

Steve weim55 Colorado

[dsraven]

Joedoh will likely chime in but I am thinking a stock height may be tough to pull off and still look stock because the stock s10 2wd is lower in the frame to begin with. you can space the body off the frame to whatever height you want but you can't change the stock s10 frame ride height much. it will get taller with a taller set of tires to match the stock old truck, if that's what you plan, but the stock 2wd s10 likely came with a 235/75r15 which is 28.9" tall

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/chevrolet/s10/1997/

https://tiresize.com/chart/

[WIDESIDE72]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Joedoh will likely chime in but I am thinking a stock height may be tough to pull off and still look stock because the stock s10 2wd is lower in the frame to begin with. you can space the body off the frame to whatever height you want but you can't change the stock s10 frame ride height much. it will get taller with a taller set of tires to match the stock old truck, if that's what you plan, but the stock 2wd s10 likely came with a 235/75r15 which is 28.9" tall

https://www.wheel-size.com/size/chevrolet/s10/1997/

https://tiresize.com/chart/

2wd 80’s s10s had 205/75r14 tires stock. 4WD had 235/75r15.

[mr48chev]

There is a big difference in a builder like Joedoe who buys a running driving donor and then uses everything that is possible to use off that donor and builds his own mounts than the guy who does it because he is convinced that is what you do to be on of the cool guys, buys a kit that cost more than the suspension he said was too expensive and scraps a perfect 3100 short bed frame because it is "obsolete"

I still vote for building the best truck you can for the $$ you have to spend and consider all the options but don't get caught up in something simply because you think that is what the cool guys are doing.

[joedoh]

driving it feels like a normal modern truck. if you ever drove an old truck you know that lumbering, cumbersome feeling, that wallow and sway in the turns. this feels like driving a modern vehicle that you just start and go. I dont want to say uninvolving or underwhelming, more like just how you would treat a daily driver, without a second thought. the efi and overdrive helps this, and I spend a lot of time on ride height and interior comfort too.

my favorite thing is driving around, if it ran on thumbs up I would never spend money on gas. my least favorite thing is the steering/radiator area of the front clip, if there was a rack and pinion setup all that could be avoided.

look at my profile, I have pictures of my trucks in the gallery. they all are built like you describe, stock looking but s10 swapped and lower. check out the green 49 with the whitewalls especially.

IMG_5254 by Joe Doh, on Flickr

keep in mind with 4" tall cab mounts (3" mounts 1" bushing) the bed floor will need raised about 1.5 inches, and then I put wood on top of that. you could mount the body higher and take care of that too though. if you didnt tub the rear wheels you will want to swap the rear axle for a wider one, or use spacers and be careful with backspace.


my advice still is: mounting the body can be done in a long weekend. you dont need a mounting kit but some people like them because they have instructions and take away some of the chaos of planning. bolt on kits sell like hotcakes too, but I feel they are misleading because everything else will need some form of cutting or welding. on that note, lately I enjoy using ext cab s10 because they are more available and shortening the frame doesnt take long enough to be a big deal, you can get the wheelbase more exact that way too. but again, it takes cutting and welding. everything else beyond mounting the body will take months, at least.

[Cuttin up]

I'm the minitrucker of the late 90's/00's who is/was quite fond of the s10 platform. As a chevy guy through and through its was the only choice for me back then. I've messed with so many of them, and currently own two of their front end cousin G body cars, that this swap made total sense for me. I had parts laying around that needed to be used, it was a perfect project. My 54's original frame was ate up pretty bad around the rear springs that it was trash and needed something different. I've always straddled the line between the hot rod world and the minitruck scene and a old bodied s10 fit me perfect. I guess the moral of all of this is to each his own and build what make sense to you. And yes I would do it again because it makes sense to me. I didn't do it because everyone else thought its the "cool" thing to do, I started because I needed a little truck to run the trash to the dump in but that quickly got out of hand and now its bagged and lays flat on the ground.