is it a muncie or saginaw

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by Brad

That link is great!
But I'm still a little confused as to what I had in my '67. It had 4 side cover bolt holes I think, with a number of M7M15. The 3 speed listed above has 7. The 3 speed Saginaw from 55-65 looks similar but it appears to have at least 5. So personally, I'm still at square one trying to figure out what the heck my truck came with from the factory. I wish I still had a picture and I just finally sold it about a month ago now.
I'm so happy with my new T-5!

The old 4 bolt side cover was a Muncie (non syncro 1 st gear). that trans showed up in many different trucks/cars from about the mid 50's, & had some different lenghts on the tailshafts. Along about 66, the cars pretty much went to the saginaw 3 spd,but trucks still used the old Muncie for a few yrs. To the best of my recollection (thats scary!), the lite duty 6 cyl trucks 67-68 had the old 4 bolt muncie, whereas the v8 sb trucks had the saginaw. 69 made the saginaw standard equip in the lite trucks,(6 or V8 all the same). The heavier 3 spd Muncie(full syncrow), & the borg Warner were not really common in our trucks, but IIRC, were more of a BB v8 deal. L

[roj2323]

wow this is confusing.

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by roj2323

wow this is confusing.

If you think this is confusing.......you should try remembering the 60's L

[Brad]

Originally Posted by shifty

Look at the PDF I just posted...look like any at the end of that? The Chevy 341, 342 and 344 looks like they have a 4 bolt cover

The problem is that those all have a long tailshaft housing. The trans I had looked very much like a Saginaw 3 speed trans-same size shape and all, but had 4 bolts on the side cover.

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

The old 4 bolt side cover was a Muncie (non syncro 1 st gear). that trans showed up in many different trucks/cars from about the mid 50's, & had some different lenghts on the tailshafts. Along about 66, the cars pretty much went to the saginaw 3 spd,but trucks still used the old Muncie for a few yrs. To the best of my recollection (thats scary!), the lite duty 6 cyl trucks 67-68 had the old 4 bolt muncie, whereas the v8 sb trucks had the saginaw. 69 made the saginaw standard equip in the lite trucks,(6 or V8 all the same). The heavier 3 spd Muncie(full syncrow), & the borg Warner were not really common in our trucks, but IIRC, were more of a BB v8 deal. L

That's what I've always heard, both here and elsewhere but so far I haven't found any documentation in books or online to be able to prove this. Then I see this post that has everything but mine in it even though many resemble it VERY closely. I'd just like to have definative proof with pics, mostly just to help someone else out down the road and for my own knowledge base.

[shifty]

Ok, I looked for the number crazyred mentioned above and found it!

It's M1K08A. I'm gonna go decode this thing and settle it once and for all, I hope Will report back!

[shifty]

Well, the news is better than I expected

M1K08A = Muncie / 3-speed, 1971 July 8th, M20

It appears the day/night designation is off, but ... Hell, apparently I have a 1971 Muncie M20, so ... whatever

crazyred, thanks for finally revealing where the casting number is Seems like, basically, whatever that number is, if it starts with M, it's a Muncie, and if it ends in A, B or C, it's an M20, M21 or M22, respectively.

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by Brad

The problem is that those all have a long tailshaft housing. The trans I had looked very much like a Saginaw 3 speed trans-same size shape and all, but had 4 bolts on the side cover.

That's what I've always heard, both here and elsewhere but so far I haven't found any documentation in books or online to be able to prove this. Then I see this post that has everything but mine in it even though many resemble it VERY closely. I'd just like to have definative proof with pics, mostly just to help someone else out down the road and for my own knowledge base.

Brad, can you post a pic of your trans?

[Brad]

Nope, I deleted all those pics after I sold it.

[70_GTO_JUDGE]

to further complicate things here....it is a dearborn muncie(rat rod) you have............GM was ripping the saginaws out left and right, so they switched to the dearborn(ford) 3 speed.

My 70 gto judge is 1 of 144 judges not upgraded to the 4 speed.


it is a rare tranny, no one knows what it is.....

[LockDoc]

-
Man you had to dig pretty deep to find this one.... 2006?

Just kidding, I love reading those old posts. Still a lot of good info in them.

Oh, and to the board.

LockDoc

[Oldmans63C10]

This is a very old post I know but...
The 4 bolt side cover Standard Trans is what is called a Muncie M318.
They came in cars, some had a Tail Shaft Trans mount, and if it has the side Tail Shaft mounting bolt holes drilled and taped it's for a floor Shifter model.
Most car's that had the Muncie M318 was a short tail shift.
Trucks always had long tail shafts Muncie M318's with no provision for floor Shifter and No tail shaft mounting pad.
Now if you have a 4 bolt side cover Muncie M318 with an Over Drive on it, it's called a M319.

The Saginaw 3 speed Standard Trans has a 7 bolt side cover.

The HD Borg Warner T-16 3 Spd Std Trans has a 9 bolt side cover, T-16's came in 1968-69 Chevy Camaro's.

There is a Heavy Duty Muncie it's the 351 a 3 speed Standard Trans it also has a 7 bolt side cover like the Saginaw 3 speed Standard Trans does "BUT" The Muncie HD 351 3-sp Std Trans 7 bolt side cover bolt pattern is different from the Saginaw 3 speed Std Trans.

The pictures of the original poster's trans is a HD Muncie 351 3-sp Std Trans, it was used in 1/2 & 3/4 ton GM Trucks & Van's, the Muncie HD 351 3-sp Std Trans was also used in Chevy's SS Cars that had Big Block V8's & HP SB V8 Engine's, (That's if the SS or None SS Car wasn't ordered with the "Aluminum Muncie "4" Speed M20, M21 or M22") it came with the Muncie HD 351 3-speed Standard Trans.

The Muncie HD 351 3 speed Standard Trans is a great Trans for a Street Rod's & for Drag Racing.

The Saginaw 3 speed Standard Trans is a 7 bolt side cover it was used in GM Car's and Truck's, it's a nice strong 3-sp Std Trans (It's Much Better then the older 4 bolt side cover Light Duty Muncie M318) "But the Saginaw Is Not" as Heavy Duty as the Muncie HD 351 3-sp Std Trans or the HD BW 3-spd Std Trans.

I hope this helps out bcuz there was alot of confusion way back in the beginning of this post and the next 2 pages.

NOTE*
The Muncie M318 3 speed Standard Trans with the 4 bolt side cover has a "Tapered front Input Shaft" it's very easy to notice.
The M318 Muncie 3-spd Std Trans is a Light Duty Trans with no 1st gear sincro. It's not strong at all, It's Not a very good performance Trans.
The Muncie M318's were used in JR Stock Drag Racing back in the 1960's bcuz of the low first gear of 3.10, the JR Stock Drags were for young kids and had low HP Engine's.

I have a Muncie M318 in my 1963 C10 Pickup Truck, it's a long tail shaft, it's behind a I6 250 cid engine and 3:73 rear gears, the little I6 250 cid engine is humming high RPM's when I'm doing 60 mph on the highway.

Again I hope this helps clear up some confusion earlier in this old post!

Keep On Trucking Brother's...

[special-K]

Thanks for the great information. Never too late to post in a thread that is looking for answers. That's what I like about this forum over the other social media venues where everything is a flash in the pan. It's all about today, then move to tomorrow. Very momentary and useless IMO. We can also chit chat here

[ljackson]

Oldmans63C10, thanks for the info