70 k20 build that somehow turned into a frame off resto-swap

[msgross]

nice build... Did you consider a 2-4" lift and cleared the pan...

[rickcdewitt]

Originally Posted by msgross

nice build... Did you consider a 2-4" lift and cleared the pan...

thanks, i'm trying to build something that makes me drive it rather than the toyota.i just skipped over some of your build,54 pages! i've always liked the 327 too.

i did want to run the truck pan but when you mix in keeping most of the stock crossmember with a 10 bolt that has larger yoke/u-joint and webbing than a d44,plus stockish height so pulling 10,000+ lbs isn't scary on mountain roads and i went for the 5 quart job. i try to justify it by planning to run the oil cooler and a big oil filter to keep some oil capacity.

when its done a lift and tires might be in the future later though.

todays mishaps-

better pic of bracket,hopefully its not so stiff it causes trouble with the tailhousing?sturdy though.

and the 14bff steam cleaned and brackets gone. a buddy just gave me some 3/4t chevy 63"s left over from a toyota crawler project i helped him build so now i need to decide if i should use them instead of the newer 2500 springs before i can mount this hunk of iron?


and i need to research the easiest way to do a pinion seal on an otherwise leak free axle.

can i pull the 5 pinion support bolts to remove the pinion assembly, or does the carrier need to come out so i can use an inch pound wrench for final pinion bearing preload when tightening the pinion nut to spec?

[msgross]

on my 12 bolt I just had to remove the yoke, replace seal and install yoke with new nut (nut has a pinch in it to keep it tight). Never had to open the cover...

[rickcdewitt]

if your pinion is shimmed rather than using a crush sleeve theres nothing wrong with torqueing the nut to spec and moving on so long as the bearings are good. you can even shim a crush sleeve to reuse it but you need to crush it to the right preload again.

with this axle being an unknown i want to set the bearing preload to spec for used bearings at the very least and check the backlash. regearing ford, and toyota axles don't give me any particulars on this axle,i'll have to look up the specs and procedures for service on these beasts.

[rickcdewitt]

so i found out i should be able to just unbolt the 14bolts pinion support to pull the whole assembly to check preload. and the crush sleeve in these are supposed to be so stout it shouldn't be much trouble torquing the pinion nut tight enough without increasing bearing preload past spec.

heres a pic of the russel -3an fitting and hose for the clutch slave,i wonder if theres a rubber grommet to cover that huge hole in the bellhousing?i guess its time to get serious about clutch master cyl type and configuration.info out there is pretty vague,hopefully i'll figure something out in the first couple tries.


i finally got the drivetrain details finished and its bolted into the truck for good(hopefully).time to mod the trans hump and get out the rad support so i can brainstorm the cooling setup.

i'm thinking i'll get all the systems together and sheetmetal hung, then tackle wiring so routing and wire length will be simple and only done once.

[rickcdewitt]

finished the trans hump and got the 2000 model throttle cable to work.i drilled an 11/16 hole in the firewall and it snapped right in. and used the 71-72 cable pedal assembly. i cut the plastic pedal arm stop off the cable and slid the 71-72 stop on the end so it would work with the 71-72 arm. also tweeked the arm so the pedal would be off the floor at full throttle.surprisingly easy to adapt!

also i bent a lip down around the tunnel openings like factory to make it stiffer.some vise grips did the job fine.you can see a little bit of the puke yellow color the truck used to be on the patch panels. the 524 red orange is much nicer(in my opinion).

[rickcdewitt]

i haven't done much to the truck in the last few days besides buy a body/bed/rad sup. mount and hardware kit from gmcpauls and fiddle with the rad support and 1970/2000 model radiators. i'm leaning towards having a great local rad shop put smaller inlet/outlet's on the 1970 style 4 row to work with the 6.0l since i want to keep the mechanical fan and the factory fan shroud should work with a little tweeking. i guess i just got lucky with engine placement on that one.it also has a boss on the pass side tank i can use a barb fitting in for the steam line.

should be ordering a clutch master soon.

[rickcdewitt]

played with the stock rad setup some more.the guy i talked to at the rad shop said i could get a custom radiator for a few hundred dollars instead of messing with modifying my old radiator. i was able to get the 6.0l hoses onto the stock inlet/outlet and i think i'll do some looking at parts stores to see what hoses i can come up with to make this work before i get a new radiator.

the fan will work too if i space out the shroud with a welded collar of some kind. maybe theres a deeper shroud out there for the gmc v6 or a newer chevy thats what im looking for too?


also did some pedal ratio and throw measurements on the stock clutch pedal with a bare floor and a 3/4" thick spacer under the pedal to compensate for sound deadener and floor mat in future.

pedal is 14" long from center of pad to pivot

6 to 1 ratio is 2-1/3" down from the pivot and gives 1-3/8" throw

5 to 1 ratio is 2-4/5" down ,1-5/8" throw

3.5 to 1 ratio is 4" down, 2-1/4" throw

had a friend measure his stock 2002 2500hd setup for me but he's lazy so i take these numbers with a grain of salt

24" pedal length

6.4 to 1 pedal ratio, rod is 3-3/4" down from the pivot,3-1/4" stroke.

looking under the dash theres room to move the pivot up a bit above the hanger and extend the pedal by the same amount if i need to for extra leverage.

[rickcdewitt]

i'll run hydroboost at a later date but the one from my donor trucks leaking everywhere and a 1/2ton booster line was 5$ at a junkyard and fits great.just had to pull the plug from the back of the intake and install.


also got the pump fitting and pressure valve from a 70 k10 while i was at the yard so i can use stock k20 power steering lines and have stock steering feel(i hope).the valves miked out the same and it all bolted right into the 2000 pump.i've got to say i like the interchangeability of chevy parts!


i'm thinking i'll run some hard line under the fan to the auto trans cooler ports on the rad for the engine oil cooler and put some barb fittings in the cut 6.0l rubber cooler lines to join it.

[rickcdewitt]

i was able to get stock p/s lines to work with some bending,especially at the pump end.you can see where i plugged the second return line for hydroboost for now until i get a rebuilt hydroboost unit.

[72 tigger]

Coming together nicely- keep up the good work!

[rickcdewitt]

Originally Posted by 72 tigger

Coming together nicely- keep up the good work!

thanks! any advise or commentary is welcome guys i'de be happy to discuss opinions on tech or build direction.i much prefer that to "look at my truck aren't i great",even if we don't agree!

so i took a gamble and bought a clutch master gm#19183066 off ebay supposedly for 94-95 c2500 trucks(going off the ebay fitment guide) 18mm bore and 1.5" stroke. also 2 bolt flange for easier mounting than the 2000 master.its not plastic or aluminum either and being a gm part might allow easier replacement in the future. also the line points down where i want it and uses the russell adapter to the 4ft long -3an line that i have without another adapter stacked on that.i think a 3ft or slightly shorter clutch line will be perfect once the inner fenders are in and i can route it perfectly.

i wound up mounting the pushrod 2.5" down from the pivot on the pedal since it gave me around 1-1/2" stroke of the pushrod and drilled the corresponding holes in the firewall to mount the master with the pushrod level. also cut and extended the pushrod 1.5" so the pedal would be up against the rubber stop.

after getting it shoehorned in and bled by myself pretty good but not great i did the scientific test of pulling my truck to a hill and pushing down the pedal until it rolled. it started to disengage with the top of the pedal pad 4" from the floor and was free at 3" and had 2 more inches until the master bottoms out 1" from the bare floor.
i'm hoping it will be enough to let it shift freely whenever i finally get it running! with help bleeding it the pedal disengagement should be a little higher and i'll shorten the pushrod so the pedal hits the floor right before the master bottoms out.
also with power applied to the disk it will engage/disengage over more than the 1" of pedal throw it takes to roll or stop it on a shallow hill. even though it sounds touchy it actually felt pretty good.

as far as pedal effort it might be very slightly more than stock setup with a 12" clutch with freshly greased up linkage.

i put a spacer under the flange to tilt it up for bleeding that will come out when done


the booster brace wound up in the way so i had to bend,cut and weld it to fit behind the resevoir.

don't laugh at the linkage,its temporary until i buy a little heim joint and thread the pushrod for it. i figure its all temporary until it runs and is proven to work as desired.i plan on welding short pieces of pipe into the holes i cut in the firwall ribbing to stiffen them back up.i also might run a strap from one of the bolts to the brake pedal bracket under the dash as well to make sure it never flex fatigues and cracks.

[rickcdewitt]

man it sure is nice to have all three pedals hooked up along with the steering system and shift levers functional! it almost feels like a truck again for the first time in at over a year rather than some intellectual mechanical problem to solve.

next up i'm putting in the gmcpaul's body mount kit and doing some hard thinking about the saddle tanks and how to pumb and switch the 60psi return system. i'm leaning towards a ford truck dual tank switch but will know for sure once i look into exactly how they are plumbed and work.

also pulled the d60 and have the 14bolt with the new perches just sitting on it until i look into a way to run 3/4t 63's without lifting the truck? i've taken a bunch of measurements and may just need to run stock 70 3/4t 4x4 leaf packs.then i can set pinion angle and burn in the perches.

[rickcdewitt]

i wound up buying an autometer 2268 adapter to put the stock copper oil sender line in the oil sensor port behind the intake.i want to run stock gauges for now so i'll see how these adapters work out.

also ordered autometer 2277 adapter and 2259 coolant temp sender for the port to the rear of the pass side head to adapt the stock temp gauge.i've read some mixed reviews but i'll give it try before tapping the engine for a stock sender.

also did some measuring on the rear spring swap issue. the factory front hanger bolt eye is 1/4" down from the plane at the bottom of the flat section of frame that goes under the cab.

if i slide the bracket 6" forward on the frame for the 63" spring the bolt eye winds up 3-1/2" below that plane.

the stock 1/2t spring is 8" measured from a line drawn between eyes down to the bottom of the pack where it sets on the axle perch.i'm guessing the 3/4t packs extra thickness would put it at 8-3/4".the 2000 3/4t 63" spring has a 9" arch height and the beefier 80's-90's 3/4t 63's with an extra leaf and thicker overload are 9-3/4" arch. this is all unsprung,no weight compressing or axle pulling down.

so i'd need to make or get a bracket that puts the front eye up about 1/4" up from the plane at the bottom of the frame under the cab to be in the ball park for ride height if i use the 2000 springs or 1-1/2" to 2" up from that plane to run the older 3/4t 63's. you need to go 2x the actual height difference if you're only swinging one side of the spring.

i don't want to raise the shackle hanger height when moving it back since the shackle would hit the bed but the 63" springs are a larger diameter wrap at the eyes so i would need to replace both hangers to make it fit.

on top of all this there are crossmembers inside the frame lining up roughly with the hangers so the frame rails don't twist when weight is applied. in a heavy hauling application you would ideally move and modify those crossmembers to remain in line with the hangers to prevent fatigue.

i do want to do this swap later but i'm seriously leaning towards slapping in some old 69-72 3/4t packs for now and moving on towards actually driving the old girl.

[rickcdewitt]

these 3/8" exhaust flanges for the 2015 camaro manifolds from ebay showed up. machined groove for the gasket.

[rickcdewitt]

i got the 14 bolt perches and shock brackets welded on with the pinion 2 degrees down from the angle of the tranfercase output.i read somewhere you want that so the pinion will come up at cruise speed and have even ujoint angles.

also started playing with the ugly lumps that came out from under the bed


i was able to get 20 gallons of water in one with the level a little below the top plane of the tank.

i've been searching for a few hours now and think i've come up with part of a plan for them.

i ordered a pollak 42-300 6 port fuel valve mentioned in glocks fred thread and like the tanks inc pump modules but they're spendy and don't come with a fuel level sender.

i'll need to go to a junk yard and see if cutting the sender opening from some 87? saddle tanks and welding them in with ep 381's on the senders will be feasable or cost effective. these saddle tanks are 10" deep so i'll have to get or modify something that will work with it.

the newer camaro pump modules are about 10" but i have a return style system so i don't think these self regulated setups will work?

[Nitis]

Did I miss what your final solution was for the engine crossmember? Did you just hack n fab the stock one? I didn't think a oil pan was enough.

I am sure you could find something to make those tanks work but have you considered just using a squarebody blazer 25 or 31 gallon? I would think that would save a lot of banging the head against the wall haha.

And you could always go inline pump too but my vote is rear tank

[rickcdewitt]

Yep,hack and fab. Notched the sides for the pan rails and welded in some 3/8" plate,then cut out strips along the front and back of the cross member and welded the face the oil pan was sitting on back on to make the 'c' shallower.
probably didn't post a pic cause its not the prettiest.I didn't want to lift the truck to clear an expensive crossmember or ditch it altogether and lose a lot of stiffness.
Since I'm getting called out on it I'll try and get a pic up when its light out.

I know what you mean about the rear tank I would if I had welded up the bed fuel doors before I painted it over a year ago if i'de known the project would get this carried away!as it is I can't bring myself to just screw on the aluminum doors with nothing behind them.

Are you close enough to the latest fire to get ashes falling on everything?its burned over 400 homes,pretty spooky.I spray the yard before I even use a grinder now it's so dry.

[Nitis]

Actually I am about 15 miles from where the Butte fire started. I was headed out of town on wednsday when it started and I saw the plume of smoke I knew it would be ugly that Moke River canyon is crazy steep and rugged with a ton of fuel.

Still hard to believe it didn't travel north more than it di and can hardly believe how far south it has traveled.

[Nitis]

Could you mock up a filler where its currently at and have it fill a rear mounted tank?

I guess that doesn't do much for the other side but just another thought

[rickcdewitt]

I'm 30 miles from the valley fire in lake county and still getting ash on my stuff.
I did think about a long filler but don't want something going past the wheel or a wheel well filler.

[rickcdewitt]

heres some pics of the butchered crossmember basicly notched it for the pan rail so theres no third bolt on the motor mount bracket and plated it in then cut out some of the c channel to make the crossmember thinner. the motor mount bracket isn't welded on.

[rickcdewitt]

i also measured the rear springs on several 3/4 and 1ton 73-87's while i was under the trucks measuring the tanks and realized the front of the spring from the eye to the centering pin is the same as the older trucks and the extra length is in the rear part of the spring.
so all i'd need to do to run the newer spring is move the rear spring hanger backward 4 inches.

[Nitis]

Looks like you are in good shape! The bulk of the oil pan seems to be well clear of the front punkin

Did you just use some sliders on the OE mounts?

[rickcdewitt]

the muscle car pan put the yoke about 3-4 inches from the pan rather than an inch when compressed and gave some room for the crossmember too.since a new pan gasket was 50$ for the truck pan it was only 100 more to have the whole setup(dipstick,etc) shipped from jegs.i used 3/8 plates from fleabay i think they were advertised for camaros. 50-60$ i think,pics of them in post #7.and yeah the new 70 mounts off the 350 that never saw the highway