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Old 06-18-2017, 12:22 PM   #1
ACII
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wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Hello

as a next step i am planning to do a wheel alignment at a shop..

So i hope u can give me some hints which alignment i should looking for !!!

I do have a 51 pickup with a Camaro Subframe and Air bags...(front / rear)

Truck does have a Ls1 engine.

I want to get a smooth ride ...its only a sunday driver (no hard cornering :-) )

Looking forward to hear from ur setups !!

Thanks
Achim
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:36 PM   #2
idbeast
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Have it aligned with the year of your Camaro subframe. That is what it is made to be.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:02 AM   #3
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Word for word he said exactly what I was going to say. Have it set for the year of Camaro the subframe came out of . Factory settings or close to it and not some screwball ricky racer settings with wild camber offsets so it corners like it is on rails on a road course. I say that because everytime setting up a front end comes up someone chimes in with settings that may work on a race track but will eat your tires in a few hundred or less miles on the street. I also did front end alignment for a number of years right in the heyday of those Camaros.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:59 AM   #4
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr48chev View Post
... I also did front end alignment for a number of years right in the heyday of those Camaros.
Me too!
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:53 PM   #5
ACII
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

hy and thanks for response...

But one more question.....what do u think about caster ?

For a smooth and comfortable ride i guess the original caster is no really desireable

What do u think about "offset shafts" ??? Are these shafts worth the money or just a good marketing :-)

thanks a lot
Achim
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Old 06-21-2017, 08:19 AM   #6
idbeast
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

The 67-69 were the ones that needed the increased Caster, however it was corrected in the second gen . As far as smooth and comfortable, they were all smooth and comfortable, well maybe a little stiff in the bumps... but they were built to handle in corners.
The Caster makes front wheels return to center, the classroom example is forks on a bicycle, they are bent forward giving it Caster. Offset shafts were more commonly made for the 67-69, but were made for rally racing. So to answer your question, Just good marketing. Remember you don't see very many people Drifting a 47-59 Chevy Truck!
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:52 PM   #7
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Have to disagree somewhat. My gen 2 needed offset shafts to get the caster right. Was told years ago the frames tend to spread over the years and the offset shafts are needed. Some of this will depend on how "plumb" your graft is. IMO, manual steering will be OK with 1 1/2 to 2 degrees while PS will feel better around 4. Your good alignment guy will steer you in the right direction, pun intended.
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:10 AM   #8
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

You absolutely do not try to "build in extra caster" when you weld a stub on or you just screwed the whole works up and anyone who suggests that is wrong. The subframe has to sit at the exact same angle when connected to the truck frame as it was connected to the donor rig. Set it so you add caster and your frame horns start angling up in the front rather than running straight out

Caster shouldn't be a problem and you don't use offset shafts to get more caster you use offset shafts because the frame has collapsed in at the control arm mounts and you need to increase the camber. One can "roll" the frame meaning put it on a front end rack and chain down the outside frame rails and jack it up in the middle with a bottle jack to push up on the middle of the crossmember and out on the control arm mounts. That usually holds it for a few years of normal daily driving. If you are replacing A arm bushings using the offset shafts makes a lot of sense though.


It's not a straight axle an you just don't need that much caster to have it drive straight an be able to handle the highways. Both of my subframed rigs had between 1 and 1.5 degrees positive caster and both cruised nicely at 80 and would stay in their lane for a long ways hands off on I 84 in Idaho where you can see straight road ahead of you for 30 miles in some places.
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My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.

Last edited by mr48chev; 06-22-2017 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:34 PM   #9
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Of course, you haven't even had it aligned and there is a VERY good possibility you can't or can align more caster into it. It is VERY common for these clips to be welded on where it makes the guy happy welding it, while the suspension geometry is completely disregarded.

It is VERY common to have to put the offset upper control arm shafts just to get the OEM caster let alone wanting more.

So be ready for bad news when you go to have it aligned. I don't want to scare you, but just be ready. It may work out great and you can jump for joy and if you have to play some games to get what you want you will be ready for it.


Brian
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Old 06-22-2017, 08:46 PM   #10
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

I've seen a couple like that and cut one apart and redid it for a guy to make it right. That's one reason I am a bit critical at times. I have had too many screwed up messes brought to me to be straightened out or corrected over the years be it engine, suspension,brakes or what not.

I'm not positive how accurate this is but this link shows what is supposed to be the proper factory alignment specs for camaros of all years. http://www.ls1.com/forums/f66/factor...ird-gto-24065/

I'll say right now that I don't like that much camber in the front end. I set them at 1/2 positive on the left wheel and 1/4 positive on the right wheel. That gave the best all around tire wear and they drove straight. Usually I went with 1 degree positive caster but on rigs that saw more freeway miles I bumped it up to 1-1/2 or 2. That was with street tires in the 70's and 80's for what you would call daily drivers. Unless you are racing you don't need much more caster and you don't want wild negative camber like a lot of ricky racer types push because they see it on road course cars.

The offset shafts probably aren't a waste of money as you can just add more shims if they give you too much positive camber. In all the years I did front ends I probably only put in 5 sets of them not counting tri 5 Chevy cars. Those almost always need offset shafts. The subframes we are putting under trucks now were under new cars when I was working on them. The ones that gave problems were pretty well abused and one had been though a wreck.
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Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club.

My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:04 PM   #11
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

Yep, the way I see it is to measure the angle on the upper shafts on the stock Camaro. Keep that number and put the truck at the ride height it will be, "All thread" replacing the shocks and tighten them up until it's down to the right height it was on the Camaro. Using a measurement of how far the rubber bumper on the lower arm was from the frame. Set the rear at the height you want the truck to be at. THEN you weld the sub frame in. Now you go into the alignment shop and say "Align my Camaro" done deal.

Brian
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Chopped, Sectioned, 1953 Corvette 235 powered. Once was even 401 Buick mid engined with the carburetor right between the seats!
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:16 AM   #12
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Re: wheel alignment for Chevy Pickup with Camaro Subframe ?

My point exactly. I welded my own and it was a learning process. Even with good planning, bracing, leveling and welding. Stuff WILL move around a little and the alignment guy will know. My first trip to the alignment guy was a little tense and we had to work at it to get 1 1/2 degrees of caster. Having it low with some rake I might not have planned for adequately complicated the process. With PS, for my preferential road feel, I would like another degree but it works great. Have actually thought of reducing the PS pump pressure to see if the road feel comes closer to my liking.
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