Repost here: lq4 turbo'ed swap

[Slowguy]

Completely new to this. I come from building older Audi's so I have a little know how but this world is completely new and something I've always wanted to do.

I picked up a 1967 c10 long box in pretty good condition. The old 350 purrs like a kitten just doesn't have much power coming from a 650 hp awd Audi need a little more from it. I plan to do a complete frame off resto and make it a short box (tons of debate from posts I've read but that's what I want and that's what I'm doing)

I also picked up a 2001 2wd work truck with a 6.0 lq4 and a 4l80e. I already tore it down and kept everything I "might" need for the swap. Right now are all the engine decisions. I thought it would be easier than what I'm finding. Some guys say do na with all the machine work, rods, ported heads, cam, rockers, push rods, etc etc. I understand the value of that but I chose this engine because I read over and over that it's strong, reliable, and can easily take mild boost to make a usable 400-500 whp. And yes, I've seen thread after thread about this but there isn't a single one that seems to fit me perfectly.

I have the engine down to the short block. I had planned on cleaning EVERYTHING. I think I should pull the pistons, deglaze hone, new rings, maybe new main and/or rod bearings if I can make sure I do it correctly (always had machine shop assemble and balance short block before). ADDED from advice given here (thanks for that): going to regap the top rings to what sounds like .024

Engine has 150 on it and ran just fine before tear down. I was also going to keep stock truck intake, and lap valves. I think I should do a mild turbo cam and pac valve springs but again, can't seem to find a good straight answer on this. New gaskets and seals all around. Possibly arp rod bolts, main bolts, and head studs? Dunno what he consensus is on that.

Finally, I'd like to fit it with the proper fueling, deka 80 injectors, on3 Chinese single turbo kit and and a custom tune.

After all the engine decisions are made and reassembled then I can get to all the truck decisions ( how to make the 4l80e work, ps, power brakes, front disc brake upgrade, cut the frame, ac installation, then paint). Priority is to get the engine prepared and on the frame right now.

ANY suggestion or advice would be greatly appreciated if you've been in my spot before.

[mongocanfly]

also keep in mind that LS head bolts are one time use..torque to yield. .I saw you were asking about bolts so I threw that out there..thumbs up for arp

[BR3W CITY]

I've done ARP's on pretty much every one. I'm really gravitating towards Studs on more recent adventures, but the extra cost isn't worth it unless you plan on trying the upper limits. They are reusable then tho. I'm not the biggest fan of on3, but dont get me wrong, I've seen plenty of cheap power made w/ them.

If your in Chicago, I can tell you 20 people NOT to get your car tuned by

[Slowguy]

Wow. Thanks for the replies. This stuff really helps.

No, not going to push it at all really; from what I've read I could put 6-7 psi to the completely stock block and probably have no issues at all but figured since I've got the engine out and on the stand....why not do a few things? My goal is to have no more than 500 whp. Don't know that I'd be able to use that with this truck anyway? It'd just roast the tires everywhere I go? I want it to look nice too so I don't want drag radials or anything crazy like that. I will do a posi rear end in the 12 bolt that's there. Seems like a must with anything over 3-350?

I actually live equidistant between Chicago and Milwaukee. I alway put Chicago because of the market there. I work there just about every day. Looks like I'll have to do some research when it comes time to tune. I kept the stock wiring harness and pcm and it sound like my best bet is the have the harness sent to a good company to have them rework it for my application.

I guess one question I have for someone who has done this: how is the power band with that mild boost? As I understand it, this engine was design and tuned for low end toque. So by boosting it on an otherwise stock engine, I'd still have some nice low end grunt, then the boost allows it to keep chugging through mid range and top? Seems like a win-win. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

I almost forgot...so I added to my list the ring gapping thanks to the previous advice I received here but I also need a stall converter? What rpm stall would you suggest for this application?

[mongocanfly]

on your stall converter question you'll need to know what cam your running so you can size it properly

[Slowguy]

Is the cam selection seems to be the question most difficult to answer. Unless I've missed it, everyone has a different idea of what works best. I suppose it depends on size of turbo, driving habits and where you want the power to be, and total power goals. In my case, I want a usable 450-500 whp with as smooth or linear delivery as possible. I know with a turbo application there will always be be some sort of lag before the turbo spools but that's why I was hoping the truck engine will help make up for that. I was further thinking that if I give it a low boost that would also deliver the power curve a little smoother.

Unless someone says, " I have the same basic build, and this is the cam setup you definitely want" then I'll have to call Texas speed or tick and tell them what I'm doing and what I'm hoping for.

[mongocanfly]

I have a stock lq9 in my 81 and love it..I was planning the same in my 53 but with turbos....after I did the math on costs and due to limited underhood space I opted for a ls3....cost of ls3 was less than a turboed & upgraded 6.0...ls3 has 430hp stock..easy call for me..

[BR3W CITY]

Low boost stock head motor doesn't really even need a boost cam. You can go with almost any milder cam, and put boost on it so long as you can keep it fueled. Your talking about a motor with less than 9:1 compression (8.4? 8.6? somewhere in there on stock heads). The actual "boost cams" you'll see are usually reverse-split cams to help with garbage intake flow, and get oversize snails up to speed on smaller cubes. Blower cams are a little different.

Couple heat ranges colder on the plugs, make sure the wires have been upgraded so your not wasting the spark energy you have. If you really want to have some fun, run a ~1gal methanol system and let it eat the boost.

The 3-4 dyno equipped places in Milwaukee have all made me laugh at various times. Either from incompetence, constantly rotating "tuners", or from the fact that their customers don't seem to realize anything is wrong.

If you don't mind going a few minutes West, go see Dan K. He's tuning out of Total Power Inc (a 'Vette builder) in St Charles. Dyno+street tunes, trans tuning etc. Not a f*ckaround shop, routinely doing 1k+hp turbo and Procharger cars.

[Slowguy]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Low boost stock head motor doesn't really even need a boost cam. You can go with almost any milder cam, and put boost on it so long as you can keep it fueled. Your talking about a motor with less than 9:1 compression (8.4? 8.6? somewhere in there on stock heads). The actual "boost cams" you'll see are usually reverse-split cams to help with garbage intake flow, and get oversize snails up to speed on smaller cubes. Blower cams are a little different.

Couple heat ranges colder on the plugs, make sure the wires have been upgraded so your not wasting the spark energy you have. If you really want to have some fun, run a ~1gal methanol system and let it eat the boost.

The 3-4 dyno equipped places in Milwaukee have all made me laugh at various times. Either from incompetence, constantly rotating "tuners", or from the fact that their customers don't seem to realize anything is wrong.

If you don't mind going a few minutes West, go see Dan K. He's tuning out of Total Power Inc (a 'Vette builder) in St Charles. Dyno+street tunes, trans tuning etc. Not a f*ckaround shop, routinely doing 1k+hp turbo and Procharger cars.

I have no problem driving wherever it takes to make sure the tuning is done properly. Probably the most important aspect of the build IMO.

So at my anticipated boost/hp a cam is unnecessary? That's fine with me I just want to cover most of the bases with the engine apart. So then stock push rods and lifters ok as well? I read at a minimum most people say they did the valve springs to PAC.

Water meth is an easy upgrade. I use it on my 600 hp audi. It's only a 4.2 but when I'm on the pedal it drinks the gallon tank very quickly. Well, I am running 25 psi too. Maybe that's why? I leave that to the tuner
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[BR3W CITY]

Your Audi is running higher compression, and with the boost pressure, the cylinder pressures are extremely high. It'll drink meth to keep from pinging.

On an LS motor, you'll be running a larger injector anyway to handle the fueling. The meth is just "padding" when your heavy on it. Most of the time a small meth tank will last a full tank of gas. I only check it on fuel stops.

Valvetrain upgrades are still good, you just don't need a turbo-specific cam. As long as you keep it fairly mild, it'll be alright with boost. There is still power to be made with the cam either way. With a turbo, your going to need dual valvesprings or you'll end up floating them eventually. Lifters should get swapped for LS9 lifters (all replacements are LS9 superceded), and lifters should get changed anytime a cam swap is done. The cam settles into the lifters in a pattern, they kinda wear into each other. Hardened pushrods are worth the money, and one set will last you forever unless you really twack your valvetrain.

[Slowguy]

This might be a dumb question but if I can achieve 450 whp at 6-7 psi (it seems many People boost at 13-14 right out of the box for much higher hp) will a w/m system alone suffice to lower iat, or should I still expect to install and intercooler?

[BR3W CITY]

I'm always going to say that an intercooler is a must, just for the mechanical cooling...BUT over the years I've seen enough examples done right without an I/C, that I'm confident it can totally be run that way; provided that your fueling, tune, and meth system are setup in a reliable enough manner to not become prohibitive.

WastedIncome has run that setup on his truck for years in Ill summer, and not had any issues that I've seen. He runs methanol, no mechanical cooling, and drives his rig.

[Heavymetl]

Intercool it. Nobody has the will power to stay at 5-7psi. It can't be done. Also, once the boost gets a bit higher, the responsiveness of the turbo and throttle response under boost gets better and better.

Since you're in the midwest don't forget to research E85. Great fuel for low cost.

[Slowguy]

Emailed Texas speed and Brian tooley. Texas replied recommended 216/220 600/600 112 LSA cam. Watched a few videos of this cam idling and both seemed to have a weird surge to them. Almost as if it would idle a bit smoother and then sound like the typical lope of a big cam car. Difficult to decide

Been working over the heads. I like getting my stuff as perfect as I can on my own. Did a bunch of research and I soaked the heads in totally awesome cleaner, then hosed off, then lapped the valves, 3m Roloc white cleaning with my right angle die grinder, another quick soap and water bath, hose with water, compressed air, then wd40 to keep from oxidizing. Next I just need the springs and valve seals from whatever cam kit I end up getting. Then the heads will get wrapped in stretch plastic and stored until assembly on engine.

Btw, the heads were basically 100% black with oil and carbon inside and out before I did this!

[Slowguy]

Bottom

[BR3W CITY]

Interesting that was TSP's choice. A high lift cam designed for midrange power in 4.8's and 5.3s? Not exactly what I would've expected them to say.

What did Brian say?

[aggie91]

That cam seems to have a bunch of lift for what your goal is.

This cam is known to make the power level with boost that you are after:

Elgin E-1839-P
220/224 a5 0.050" lift
0.575"/0.575" lift
112 LSA

Along with PAC 1218 spring you would be good to go.

[Slowguy]

No response from Brian yet.

I was surprised at that cam suggestion also. It seems boosted engines need less aggressive cam setup? I can tell by the sound when I youtubed it, didn't send like a mild cam.

Thanks for the cam suggestion. I'm looking it up now

[Slowguy]

The response from tooley was not very descriptive, "I would recommend going with the truck stage 3 cam"

[mongocanfly]

here's the specs for the btr stage3 turbo cam....Cam specs are 230/235 .609"/.610" 114+4 and comes a 3 bolt timing gear pattern.
even bigger than texas speed...

[66 C10 383]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

here's the specs for the btr stage3 turbo cam....Cam specs are 230/235 .609"/.610" 114+4 and comes a 3 bolt timing gear pattern.
even bigger than texas speed...

I know you said you just ordered a cam, but the above isn't the cam Brian speced. The BTR TRUCK STAGE III CAM is listed here:

https://www.briantooleyracing.com/tr...e-iii-cam.html

Specs are 218/224 .553/.553 113+3

I'm looking at the BTR Truck Stage IV cam for my NA 5.3 and thought the above specs were a little big for the truck stage III cam.


Also, have you read the Hot Rod magazine article where they turbo'd an LS motor? Very good insight I think...

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...g-bang-theory/

[Heavymetl]

Focus on fuel delivery, trans, converter, and ECUs. A stock cam will work great to get you started.

[aggie91]

Check out this video for how that Elgin cam sounds and works in a 4.8 ls, 7875 VS racing turbo with intercooler....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riN_...EliGdvmbu52vYq

10psi, 15 degrees timing, 6000 rpm netted him 425 hp. Still have some tuning to do, but gives you an idea about that cam.

[Slowguy]

That sounds really good. That's the same cam referenced above? I wonder if that engine is stock and if it matters that I am using a 6.0 and he's using a 4.8?

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by Slowguy

That sounds really good. That's the same cam referenced above? I wonder if that engine is stock and if it matters that I am using a 6.0 and he's using a 4.8?

That engine is stock down to the head bolts, gen 3 rods, ring gap and even the lifters. I you go to that same channel on you tube, he has like 14 videos of what all was done to that truck with the 4.8. The long block only has the cam and springs done, nothing else.

I would believe that cam would work well in your 6.0 and might not require as much boost to hit that same power level because of the increased displacement.