Advice on cab floor repair on a 66

[msg]

Ive got a cab that was sand blasted and Im finally getting repairs made. I have a good bit of rust down the outer portion and some near the firewall.




One of my patch panels is the entire side but only wide enoigh to cover some of the rust. The other floor pan panel I have I was thinking to use to make repairs where the rust had eaten through.



So I made a cut today



But there is a good bit of rust in the brace and also an area near the firewall that needs to be cut out and replaced. Trouble is, there is that cab mount disc/washer that is in the area and I dont know if its best to leave that area in place since the rust hadnt eaten through, or cut it out and count on cleaning out the brace real good and prep for rust repair in the brace. If I cut too much I was concerned about the cab dropping down and getting out of alignment.




What should I do here? And how should I do it, and in what order?

[Cape Codder]

I just noticed this thread and it is almost a month old. If still looking for opinions I would weld the outer part in since you have already cut that out. That should stabilize the cap to cut out the inner floor for repair. I see a small piece of rod to hold the cab in shape, I like a little more beef in my bracing such as square tube and cross braces with some diagonals. so nothing can move.

[msg]

Thanks for checking in, I have moved ahead and made the repairs to the floor and the inner rocker panel. But now I am reaching the point of trying to repair the intersection of the inner kick panel and the pillar and the upper firewall near the headlight footswitch. So your reply comes at a handy time, cause I was about to post another question about where the kick panel height should be compared to the inner rocker panel. In the pic maybe you can see that I have it about a half inch from the inner rocker panel, the gap that is.


Is it supposed to be flush with the inner rocker panel? Or is this gap right? Cause it lines up with the bolt holes.



The areas I had to cut were so deteriorated I cant tell what the right alignments were supposed to be.

[joesscamaro]

My opinion...I would not use the existing bolt holes in the new part to align everything. I ended up weld filling those bolt holes and having to re-drill new ones once I got that part in place and welded in. I would recommend just playing with the part and trying to find the right spot where all the other parts will line up with it. Put a couple of tacks on there to hold it in place when you think you found it's place and see how everything lines up.

[Vinceg]

Hey there MSG, Sorry I'm also late to the game. It looks like your doing well. Where are you at with it now? I've had to do all the stuff your doing. I'd be happy to give you any advice I can. I'm no expert by any means. But I'm happy with the way my cab has come together.

[Vinceg]

Oh yeah. X2 about what Joe said. I had to fill in and re drill holes and round out holes. You will find some aftermarket stuff that is better than others but trying to line up holes will give you nothing but problems. As far as the gap on the kick goes your not going to want that. Slide it right down so it meets up with the inner rocker. When I did mine I kept it flush. Also because of how the outer rocker spot welds along the top to the inner. That gap could give you some problems trying to get the outer to mount so you can spot weld it in. Hope that helps. Good luck.

[msg]

Thanks guys for pitching in!

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I see a small piece of rod to hold the cab in shape, I like a little more beef in my bracing such as square tube and cross braces with some diagonals. so nothing can move.

Yeah, I was going cheap on this when I went to home improvement center to find something to brace with. Ive read some guys taking this step and some not and coming out ok. But I wanted at least something, the criss cross makes total sense and I should have, but its tricky enough with what I have to work around while making repairs..hope I dont regret not beefing it up.

Originally Posted by joesscamaro

I ended up weld filling those bolt holes and having to re-drill new ones once I got that part in place and welded in. I would recommend just playing with the part and trying to find the right spot where all the other parts will line up with it. Put a couple of tacks on there to hold it in place when you think you found it's place and see how everything lines up.

I like the fill and drill approach, Ill do that vs what I did to get the inner rocker in which was just drill more and then tack on.

Heres a pic of what I mean

Originally Posted by Vinceg

As far as the gap on the kick goes your not going to want that. Slide it right down so it meets up with the inner rocker. When I did mine I kept it flush..

Thanks for that Vince, I actually should have checked my inventory of pics Ive taken along the way casue it had a before that showed it flush like you said.
I took a t square and draped it from the support rod and took measurements of the inner rocker position at both ends. In the pic it showed the flush of that inner kick panel part Im sre thats gonna be a pain to repair.

Originally Posted by Vinceg

Also because of how the outer rocker spot welds along the top to the inner. That gap could give you some problems trying to get the outer to mount so you can spot weld it in. Hope that helps. Good luck.

Always appreciate the help! Ill be back at it tonight and post some updates. I actually need to update my build thread as well. I got sidetracked a bit here, but figured ask a specific question in a new thread to get more advice.

[Vinceg]

Another thing I found very helpful was self tapping sheat metal screws. They hold things in place can be easily removed for adjustments and easy clean up with the welder when it is all said and done. The cab brace is very important. Ask me how I know? Lol! I didn't do it at all on my passenger side and had major headaches getting it all put back together. Ounce of prevention kind of thing. Braced up the drivers side and it went so smooth I'd almost attempt doing it again. ??? Will see what I drag home next. LOL! Also when you get to the point of bolting all the metal together in that area tack weld your nuts to the sheet metal inside the rockers. Ask me again how I know? When you need to loosen the bolts for adjustment and you have not secured the nuts getting in and tightening them with the outer rocker on is impossible. I had to cut an access in the inner from behind just to make adjustments. I had some pretty serious cab sag due to the cab supports being totally rotted away. Didn't see how bad it was until I tried mounting the outter rocker and lining it up with the door gap. Had to losses all the bolts cut the cab support and jack up on the rocker. Had to tighten all the bolts and re weld the cab support. Seeing that your cab supports are in place I don't think you will have to worry about that.

[msg]

Originally Posted by Vinceg

Another thing I found very helpful was self tapping sheat metal screws.

Ive heard folks doing this and I really wanted to try..but on this intricate lower kick panel, and even the inner rocker panel where there are so many dips and curves I wasnt sure how to go about properly lining up the patch panel to then tap screw in place and cut. Seems like flatter areas would be easier to do, but I just didnt see how that would work on these inner rockers and kick panels and such.

Originally Posted by Vinceg

Also when you get to the point of bolting all the metal together in that area tack weld your nuts to the sheet metal inside the rockers.

Great tip, thanks!


Ive been at it filling the predrilled holes from the re pop company and redrilling the hole to line up with the cab brace.



The one thing I am a bit confused on is how to go about spot welding and the paint situation. I assumed that I need to drill the hole where the spot weld should be, but Im not sure on whether or not the painted surfaces need to be clean metal where the panels meet? What about painting where the panels should meet so it doesnt get rusted behind there? Shouldn't it be clean metal so the weld takes best?

Like the back side of the panel where its going to meet the inner rocker?
Should I paint all that and weld through a drilled hole?

[Vinceg]

Hey MSG it looks like your making good progress. It is very time consuming messing with stuff that doesn't fit right. As far as the welding goes what I did was to mark the spot weld area. Drill a hole in the outer panel that I was going to weld through. Hold the drilled panel in place and mark the holes on the behind panel. Remove the panel and strip the shipping primer away where the holes are marked. (Your comment about bare metal being best is right). Go get a can of high copper or weld through primer. (I didn't even know such a thing existed before I started doing this). Spray down all your bare spots with it. Let it dry and weld your panel in place. I found a 1/4 inch drill hole worked best for my skill level and my welder. I tried smaller but found I wasn't getting real good penetration on the back or bottom panel. I also found starting the weld just outside the hole and moving into the hole for the weld worked very well. I was starting the weld in the hole to start. I can't remember what video on line I learned that trick from but I found the weld had a chance to heat up and it spot welded way better. It might have also had something to do with my welder. It isn't the best. It is an old Clark 110 gas shield wire feed. Some one might have better advice but this is what I did. I hope that help.

Vince

[Cape Codder]

I spray both panels with weld through primer, drill my 1/4 " holes in the outer panel. Then either screw or clamp the panels together. I have an old 1/4 drill bit that I ground flat on the end so it fits into the 1/4 out hole and just cuts the primer off without drilling a hole. Weld her up .

[msg]

Originally Posted by Vinceg

I found a 1/4 inch drill hole worked best for my skill level and my welder. I tried smaller but found I wasn't getting real good penetration on the back or bottom panel. I also found starting the weld just outside the hole and moving into the hole for the weld worked very well.

Vince

Great tip on the weld technique, thanks Vince this helped get a good plug weld going for me.

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I spray both panels with weld through primer, drill my 1/4 " holes in the outer panel. Then either screw or clamp the panels together. I have an old 1/4 drill bit that I ground flat on the end so it fits into the 1/4 out hole and just cuts the primer off without drilling a hole. Weld her up .

Thanks to you both on the dril tips. I did very similar to what you both mentioned on the drill, I had seem Robert "MP&C" post this on the hamb site. Its post #7. Nice pics to help see the technique.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...er-wtf.818596/

I also have been using epoxy primer on other panels Ive been repairing so I did like you suggested and coated the panel areas that join and then took the flattened drill bit to scrape off the area and get the spot cleared for the weld. I bought 2 drill bits the same size and ground one flat for that scraping detail then welded.





All I could get done this weekend was making the kick panel repair...



and fabricated the firewall panel from left over floor pan patch panel.





The day ended with the panel flange being epoxy primed and the other panels it gets spot welded to. Hopefully I can get this side wrapped up this week and get onto the other side.

[Indian113]

Looks Good, take it Slow and do it Right. Thanks for taking those great Pictures

[msg]

Thanks Indian113! Tonight I was going to start on the floor footswitch area fix, but I wanted to check with the group here on the pillar fix that I think is up next. The references I have for how it aligned and all isnt too good considering the rusted out condition. Anyone have any tips on how to get the new pillar in place correctly?

Before pic



and here is the patch panel pushed onto the frame just for placement til I know better what needs to be lined up with what.







Also, for the rusted out condition the pillar had...is there a step to take to help keep this from happening again? I dont think it needs to drain out, but assuming it does and it somehow got clogged up and then rusted out.. I wondered if the base should be modified to allow for drainage?

[Vinceg]

The biggest problem I had with my lower door pilar was the first one I did I cut two high and the plate that the hinge bolts into fell out. That was not fun to fix. Use your cab support holes as a reference. I'm assuming they are original or when they were replaced they were matched up with the original holes in the body panels. Measure twice cut once. Lol! It goes pretty good once you get into it. Good luck.

[msg]

Are there any spot welds on the pillar to the inner rocker panel? Or just weld the pillar to the cab, where it butt joins? The assembly manual shows the spots for the outer rocker but nothing I can find on the pillar and inner rocker.

[Vinceg]

How high up did you end up cutting the pillar off? Butt weld the lower pillar on. The lower part is secured by the bolts that go through the toe kick, inner rocker and pillar. You will also want to attach the lower fender mount to make sure the holes line up all the way through. Any spot welds will be above the inner rocker where the pillar attaches to the toe kick panel. I hope that makes sence. I have trouble getting my thoughts across some times. So my wife says. Lol!

[msg]

Originally Posted by Vinceg

How high up did you end up cutting the pillar off? Butt weld the lower pillar on. The lower part is secured by the bolts that go through the toe kick, inner rocker and pillar. You will also want to attach the lower fender mount to make sure the holes line up all the way through. Any spot welds will be above the inner rocker where the pillar attaches to the toe kick panel. I hope that makes sence. I have trouble getting my thoughts across some times. So my wife says. Lol!

Thanks Vince, yep made sense and I was pretty sure it wasnt needing any spot welds..although I may need to put one or two to tack it down at the base. Heres a pic of the pillar patch held in place with a magnet. I had cut the patch panel just below the humped area before it curves. Ive painted the back side of it since I had to hammer/dolly that pillar a bunch to get it in place. I'll weld it in place tomorrow, gotta let paint dry first.

I noticed that as I was doing all the floor panel and pillar work that as I was pounding there was a pile of what I thought at the start was sand from the blaster...but it turns out to be a bunch of dirt dobber crud in the brace on the back side of the cab passenger side. So now it looks like what I thought was ok to leave alone, I now have to cut out the inner rocker panel that covers the brace so I can get in there and clean out that junk.



I looked behind the brace area under the cab and saw the pile up in the gaps



Then I took the snips and cut a gap.



I hate to have to, but tomorrow Ill try and get that panel cleared in front of the brace so I can clean it out. If ya'll have any tips for this I would appreciate it.

[Vinceg]

That sucks! I didn't run into this particular problem. I had to replace my rear support along with sections of the cab floor above the support past where the replacement panel went too. So hence no crap to clean up. Now while your cab corner is off is when your gonna want to do it for sure. If it was me I'd cut a section out big enough to get in there and clean it up with a wire brush. You'll be surprised what it will look like inside there. Then I would try to get in and as far back as I could with some POR-15. Don't know if you've ever tried POR-15 or not but I like it. I'd use a small foam brush on a paint stick to get in and back as far as you can. Then butt weld in your new metal. Might be some guys that pipe in with better ideas? Good luck.

[Baketown Scotty]

Good job! Thanks for all the pictures, keep them coming.

[msg]

Originally Posted by Vinceg

If it was me I'd cut a section out big enough to get in there and clean it up with a wire brush. You'll be surprised what it will look like inside there.

Yeah, take a look.

Originally Posted by Vinceg

Then I would try to get in and as far back as I could with some POR-15. Don't know if you've ever tried POR-15 or not but I like it. I'd use a small foam brush on a paint stick to get in and back as far as you can. Then butt weld in your new metal.

I have been using epoxy primer after prepping with wire brush and ospho and a degreaser, but this area I am sure I wont get all of what I normally can...so Ive ordered the POR15 and will use that on the inside of this brace and the pillar while I still have that area open. Gonna wire brush and scrub and get it all ready.

Originally Posted by Baketown Scotty

Good job! Thanks for all the pictures, keep them coming.

Will do Scotty, thx for joining! I forgot to post the pics of that firewall footswitch area I patched up. So here is the panel as I was drilling out the areas that needed spot welds...




Then after tacking it in place, the painted area on the cab I am spot welding to needed the flattened drill bit trick to clean off the paint to get a good weld. Problem here was the angle, I couldnt get a straight on drill without buying an extender for the bit. The lengths I go to..



Then finished her up.




The inside I'll leave the weld proud for the extra strength .



Thats a wrap for today.

[Cape Codder]

Nice looking patches.

[Vinceg]

Hey there msg, Nice looking work on the floor panel. Making good progress. It actually didn't look as bad in your rear cab Suppot as I thought it would. Mine were so rotten it was pretty bad. Yours are actually in pretty nice shape. Is that some kind of wasp nest? Sorry I'm among ways north of your location. Lol! POR-15 will be work well inside there.