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Old 10-09-2017, 03:23 PM   #26
chewychevy67
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Re: Question for the purists

Every truck is only original once. When you repaint or replace stuff it isn't original anymore. There are some stunning untouched trucks on this board. If it didn't need any work I would leave it but once I change something major I will make it how I want it. For my build I added what I wanted but everything in 67-72 gm car/truck era. I tried to build it how gm could have done it with the car options. I am not selling it though. That's how I like it. Vintage feel still. I don't feel bad about changing it at all.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:05 PM   #27
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Re: Question for the purists

Well, I’m gonna split hairs. As much as I hate to admit it, I guess I’m a purist - or, maybe more appropriately, I’ve become one. If I had a no-kidding rare gem. I’d restore it to what the SPID actually states it was born with, without any additions. That would be a very uncommon thing, like say a 72 C10 SWB Super that had every option available except AM/FM. In THAT very rare instance, I wouldn’t add a factory AM/FM to it.

In the other 99.99% of the cases, I think factory available options that were available in YOM are about the coolest things one can add to trucks like these. In my 72 Custom Camper Highlander, I’ve indeed added some things that were available in 72 that the truck wasn’t born with. Yes, add buckets, AM/FM, tilt, etc. add whatever you like! All good.

Personally, I don’t change the SPID though. It is just a sticker and doesn’t mean much except in Case 1 above when it comes to resale, so I don’t really see a reason to alter it either - once altered, there’s no way to know (buyer) or prove (seller) what’s been added (if that matters to someone). I’d keep the original gb door at a minimum if I did - that is a good plan. But, if there’s no build sheet - that original SPID is the only record of what it came with, and when it comes to selling it - it simply doesn’t matter what you KNOW about the truck because you bought it new, for instance - all that matters is what you can prove. And in Case 2, folks will see the factory additions for what they are worth and appreciate that they were added in most cases.

And keep in mind that we, here, make up the very small minority of the truck buying world that actually even know what a SPID is or what options were available in what years. That’s my 2 cents anyway.

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Old 10-09-2017, 04:59 PM   #28
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Re: Question for the purists

I like to keep things original and the SPID is very important to me. That said, I would love to add AC to mine, but don't know if I could cut holes into my original dash. Would that hurt or help the value??... it doesnt really matter to me because I would never sell it.

However, the purist in me keeps on rethinking it (over and over ).
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:15 PM   #29
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Re: Question for the purists

is being a purist a bad thing?

I did not think so.

I thought it was more like a responsibility. or an obligation.

maybe the reason there are so few purist's defending themselves is because there are so few of us. Ipso facto there are few trucks that actually qualify as such. Think about that befor you hack chop and cut up a nice old truck. Sell it, buy a junker and do it up, leave the old origonals alone... Why did you even buy it if it did not do for you what you wanted it too.

I become suspect when you fake so many options that dramatically increase the value of the truck and then fake the SPID too.

even if the truck gets loadded up, why then change the Spid too?

Honesty remains the best policy...always

Its like owning the Mona Lisa and not liking the smile so you get a Sharpie and draw in some knocked out teath. Yea, its yours to do with what you want.

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Old 10-09-2017, 08:07 PM   #30
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Re: Question for the purists

I'm not a purist because I do modified trucks as well as 100% original. A purist would not approve of my modified trucks.

A SPID is just a silly sticker? That's a joke, right? That has got to be the most incorrect statement in this thread, if not. You see, it has the VIN on it which proves a truck with no more and no less options than shown on it is bonified, same as a build sheet. I guess a VIN plate is just a silly piece of metal and the title is a silly piece of paper by that logic.

Yes a truck is only "factory" original once, but it can be repaired, restored, refurbished to remain original. Some trucks had to have an original part replaced by the dealer under warranty. The same factory part was used to replace the faulty one and that truck is still 100% original. If there is a 100% factory original truck out there it has a dead for over 40 years battery and rotten flat tires.

Here is a 5,000+ mile 100% original '73 C10. Except the original tires are in the bed. It's not a Cheyenne Super, it doesn't have A/C, 307/3spd. Nothing added, yet some nice looking options. If anything had been done to "upgrade" this truck it would have killed it's value as an original. The rear bumper is a dealer installed Luverne as well as the GM accessory VentVisors. Many trucks came through with no rear bumper because only some states were just beginning to require safety inspections on trucks. The original tires are laying in the bed.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:34 PM   #31
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Re: Question for the purists

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Originally Posted by special-K View Post
I'm not a purist because I do modified trucks as well as 100% original. A purist would not approve of my modified trucks.

A SPID is just a silly sticker? That's a joke, right? That has got to be the most incorrect statement in this thread, if not. You see, it has the VIN on it which proves a truck with no more and no less options than shown on it is bonified, same as a build sheet. I guess a VIN plate is just a silly piece of metal and the title is a silly piece of paper by that logic.

Yes a truck is only "factory" original once, but it can be repaired, restored, refurbished to remain original. Some trucks had to have an original part replaced by the dealer under warranty. The same factory part was used to replace the faulty one and that truck is still 100% original. If there is a 100% factory original truck out there it has a dead for over 40 years battery and rotten flat tires.

Here is a 5,000+ mile 100% original '73 C10. Except the original tires are in the bed. It's not a Cheyenne Super, it doesn't have A/C, 307/3spd. Nothing added, yet some nice looking options. If anything had been done to "upgrade" this truck it would have killed it's value as an original. The rear bumper is a dealer installed Luverne as well as the GM accessory VentVisors. Many trucks came through with no rear bumper because only some states were just beginning to require safety inspections on trucks. The original tires are laying in the bed.
Sorry specia-k but that's not a year correct truck for this forum. Lol, had to say that. Appreciate and respect all your comments and also a super nice square body truck!!!
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:53 PM   #32
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Re: Question for the purists

Sorry!!! I showed this one because I just saw it at the Fall Carlisle auction. Not year correct but I felt it was a good example related to the topic. If I bought that truck I wouldn't add any factory options.

I think trucks with odd or unique combinations are cooler than top of the line loaded trucks. I've seen original Customs with more options than many Cheyenne Supers. To me that is cooler. I had a Red Orange '71 SWB K/10 Custom with 292/4spd, fr & rr posi, tow hooks, bucket seats, AM/FM, tach, tilt, wood floor, HD radiator, and chrome bumper. No trim, no A/C, yet all those options. It was awesome from the factory and very unique
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:56 PM   #33
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Re: Question for the purists

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Originally Posted by 72chevynut View Post
Sorry specia-k but that's not a year correct truck for this forum. Lol, had to say that. Appreciate and respect all your comments and also a super nice square body truck!!!
all kidding aside... K establishes a very good point. Not only is this truck valuable in its own right. Its irreplacable. Only a lump would buy it for the purpose of chop, cut rebuild....

theres a down side too. these origonal trucks.... you cant just hop in them and drive them. first it devalues them, second it can be risky. rubber and other parts may have deteriorated. thus causing a fire hazard. rusty voltage regulators can cause electrical hazards. old batteries can leak acid. oils can decompose...

thats why some people are simply not cut out to be responsible for these types of vehicles. You show them, you dont drive them, and you certainly dont chop cut or rebuild them. if your going to turn a truck into junk, then start with junk
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:22 PM   #34
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Re: Question for the purists

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Originally Posted by special-K View Post
Sorry!!! I showed this one because I just saw it at the Fall Carlisle auction. Not year correct but I felt it was a good example related to the topic. If I bought that truck I wouldn't add any factory options.

I think trucks with odd or unique combinations are cooler than top of the line loaded trucks. I've seen original Customs with more options than many Cheyenne Supers. To me that is cooler. I had a Red Orange '71 SWB K/10 Custom with 292/4spd, fr & rr posi, tow hooks, bucket seats, AM/FM, tach, tilt, wood floor, HD radiator, and chrome bumper. No trim, no A/C, yet all those options. It was awesome from the factory and very unique
No problem and understand. Just funnin with ya on such a serious subject to some. And wow, that 71 K10 you had, pic of it would have been cool example!! And year correct!!!
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:46 PM   #35
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Re: Question for the purists

My truck retains the original engine and trans, alternator (!) and power steering. Yeah, that alternator looks like it has never been apart. My father in law made all kinds of changes to it, mostly for the better (trans cooler, overflow tank, etc.). But lots of other changes should just be considered personal preference, like the aftermarket AM/FM Cassette player. He added all kinds of gadgets like a tach, altimeter, ambient temperature gauges, compass, etc.

I converted it to front disc brakes after inheriting it, having driven it in the past with a towed camper in the rain. It has a new camper shell as of last February. Mostly, I like it to look original. But some technologies are going to supersede what came from the factory. I won't apologize for that. I'm not selling, so I don't care. When my wife and I are dead and gone, one of our sons (of 3) is interested in having it. The other two couldn't care less about "an old truck". He's the one who helped me rebuild the front end when we put in the disc brakes. I needed someone to stand on the lower A-arms while pulling 170 Ft-Lbs of torque.
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:39 AM   #36
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Re: Question for the purists

OK, when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's, I always hanged out in garages watching and listening, and learning. All these so called builders called a purist some thing different. My understanding was if you restored or beefed up a car or truck, you use the components the factory used. Example; If you build a Buick, you use Buick. If you build a Pontiac, you use Pontiac. Etc, etc. An unpure vehicle would be someone built an Oldsmobile and put a Chevy drive train in it. Someone built a Mopar and put a Ford drive train in it. My understanding of what most of you are talking about keeping the truck as factory original as possible. Wouldn't that be a concours? Not a purist? I'm with you guys about the SPID, don't deceived others to get a oooooh or aaaaah reaction because you added options on the SPID that the truck didn't have in the first place. It's your truck, add the options, but why lie about it. For what it's worth, leave legal documents alone. I'm pretty sure your not going to get extra points for a forgery. I've seen people at shows get into arguments about parts added on by the owner claiming it was original. Ask your self, was it worth it?
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:58 AM   #37
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Re: Question for the purists

My 1968 C10 stepside LWB had absolutely ZERO options. My grandfather was a notorious cheapskate, so he bought this "no frills" model. So for years I have had to struggle with no power steering, no tilt steering, no automatic transmission, no power brakes, no disc brakes, no A/C, no gauges, no lighter plug, a tired I6 engine (I HATE those), and no radio.
So I have had the following installed (so far):
Power / Tilt steering
1972 Blazer 250 engine
Automatic transmission 700R4
Tachometer gauge cluster with Vacuum gauge
Lighter plug

Next up is the power brakes, with the front disk conversion, maybe the A/C, and I have a factory AM radio that is going to be converted to modern day AM/FM.
Does all this make my truck's value go down? Maybe, but it does not matter to me. It will NEVER be sold since it is a family heirloom, and since it had NO options whatsoever, I have absolutely ZERO regrets for replacing (and planning to replace) all the aforementioned things to make it better and safer to drive. In this case upgrading is great!
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:09 PM   #38
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Re: Question for the purists

I have no problem with people adding options and printing up a new SPID to make them feel better.

I do have a problem with the truck inevitably being sold down the line as that being the factory SPID. We all know it's going to happen if you don't put "REPRODUCTION" on it.

Some states are passing cowl tag laws, with the tag being defined as any plaque or list of options and colors (etc), and that modifying or faking one is illegal in that state. Not all states yet, but it's still a legal and ethical problem.

To put my money where my mouth is, I considered doing it for my truck. In the end I left the factory SPID and build sheets untouched. So my truck has tilt and speed warning but they do not appear on the SPID.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:46 PM   #39
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Re: Question for the purists

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Originally Posted by 72chevynut View Post
No problem and understand. Just funnin with ya on such a serious subject to some. And wow, that 71 K10 you had, pic of it would have been cool example!! And year correct!!!
Oh, I knew you wuz justa funnin'. That was a good one, by the way. I wish I had pictures of that one and some others I've had. I didn't always take pictures of my stuff back in the day, and many I did had fell victim to a war of roses kinda thing. I married me a high spirited woman
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:00 PM   #40
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Re: Question for the purists

Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGHWAY BY THE SEA View Post
My 1968 C10 stepside LWB had absolutely ZERO options. My grandfather was a notorious cheapskate, so he bought this "no frills" model. So for years I have had to struggle with no power steering, no tilt steering, no automatic transmission, no power brakes, no disc brakes, no A/C, no gauges, no lighter plug, a tired I6 engine (I HATE those), and no radio.
So I have had the following installed (so far):
Power / Tilt steering
1972 Blazer 250 engine
Automatic transmission 700R4
Tachometer gauge cluster with Vacuum gauge
Lighter plug

Next up is the power brakes, with the front disk conversion, maybe the A/C, and I have a factory AM radio that is going to be converted to modern day AM/FM.
Does all this make my truck's value go down? Maybe, but it does not matter to me. It will NEVER be sold since it is a family heirloom, and since it had NO options whatsoever, I have absolutely ZERO regrets for replacing (and planning to replace) all the aforementioned things to make it better and safer to drive. In this case upgrading is great!
I would have left it as-is. That has to be one of the coolest combinations ever, no-frills bone stock. Obviously, you disagree, and you get to do whatever you want!
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:11 AM   #41
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Re: Question for the purists

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As an admitted purist I say no harm in correcting a "birth defect" from GM. Keep the original GB door/SPID for wall art and have a new GB door/SPID made and installed after the build.

Who will whine that an OEM tach cluster, OEM tilt column, limited slip differential, OEM FM radio etc was installed? Done correctly these additions are a plus IMO. My current Blazer build will have the tilt, tach, FM, and limited slip rear omitted by the original buyer
I'm with you 100% on this. I've done some correct OEM enhancements on my truck and have more to do. I've added tach, speedwarning and vacuum gauge dash, chromed the bumpers and have an original tilt to install as well as original buckets and console to install. I also had Chipflyer make me a new spid to reflect what I've added. The original glove box door will be removed and a chrome one with the centre piece painted wrinkle black wil be installed with the new spid and as Pete said the original will be tucked away. If/when I decide to sell the truck I will disclose what I've done to the buyer and give him/her the original glove box door. I consider myself a purist and do not think enhancing/adding correctly OEM parts or accessories detracts from the value of a truck.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:04 AM   #42
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Re: Question for the purists

I think there is no blanket to cover this whole topic. I see a purest as being rigid on the topic, which leads to them all but telling someone what they should do with their possession. I take it on a case by case basis and trust in my discretion. We all have our standards and our rights. There's what I would do and what others would.

My current K2500 came pretty nicely off the assembly line. It's a Sierra Custom Camper with A/C, posi, and some other niceness. Looked pretty good white with blue interior. My original intentions were to make it my RV truck with a 4Wheel camper and set up to tow. I had the high option Cheyenne Super for a purist resto, then got the Highlander for a driver. Never got the camper, sold the Super, then the Highlander. I also had a '71 SWB K/10 Custom Deluxe I was going to build into a badass with 1t axles and 37" Swampers. Sold that, too, and was going to do all that to the Sierra (had it all). The Sierra has gone from original plan to being what the SWB was going to be to now thinking I should keep it as the factory K2500 that it is and build the badass from a square body chassis with 67-72 body. But I have added options it didn't come with, used the saddle interior I originally thought to put in the Super, and will change color when I get to the body. In the mean time the white is great for a driver that I can paint bad spots on without looking bad. I don't want to do anything that couldn't be changed back, but the vibe for now is a cool survivor truck as it might have been personalized in the '70s. I always have a plan, but that can change. I feel this is my keeper, my last K20/K2500, that I will do as I please. I've kept it alive for 16 years so far. I'll make this one what I wish it had been from factory...a Sierra K2500 Fenderside saddle interior either bronze, dark green, ochre, or maybe even tangiers orange. I'll let you know when I'm on my way to get the paint. I might do a customized SPID for the chrome glovebox door with woodgrain while keeping original blue glovebox door intact.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:49 AM   #43
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Re: Question for the purists

when i bought my truck over 40 years ago for $100 it had already been junked...my standing joke was that it was a good thing i didnt buy it as a parts truck cause it didnt have any good ones...the seized 6 came out for a small block,the bone dry rear was replaced with a square body one,when the column froze up in the winter and wouldnt slide thru the neutral gate it got a floor shift,and when i found a muncie for the right price it became a 4 speed....i turned it into a tow truck and when it wouldnt stop it got a disc brake crossmember from a 75 suburban....back then when you upgraded something you did it with factory parts from a junkyard cause that was all that was available...its a hot rod, cause thats what i want...that being said, the only reason i can see to put in a phony spid is to fraudulently represent a vehicle as a more valuable highly optioned one....you might as well swap the vin...so modify away but leave the paperwork legit...seems like at the auctions clones are going for serious money anyway
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:35 AM   #44
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Re: Question for the purists

I get what you are saying and agree with it, except there is more than one reason to "create" a SPID. In my case it would because I am a very detail oriented person and think it would be cool to "create" my own truck for myself and even have the SPID represent all what I have created. It will be my fantasy truck and IF I ever do end up selling, it will be to someone who digs what I did or someone willing to pay for what I've done only to invest more into putting it back to original. I don't have a deceitful bone in my body. I have retained the original glovebox door, have detailed documentation pictures from when I bought it showing it's originality, have all the original parts I have swapped to modify (suspension, diff/valve covers/air cleaner/manifolds/lock-out hubs) to offer when selling, or for me to install if I decide I want it back to original. I have sold the interior pieces, but would want fresh stuff when restoring anyway.

My '67 SWB C1500 project I am building from the ground-up using OEM parts from various years and both brands. It will appear as a '67 GMC Super Custom BBW...at first. But, it's a '71 chassis/suspension, '72 cab, '68 327, 3.42s from a later model, and on. It will be a period correct hot truck that if sold would not be purchased for originality. The '65 Pontiac M22, louvered hood, roll & pleat interior, and a few other touches will likely draw a hot rod buyer, IF I ever sell, but it will be disclosed as what it is. Not thinking about a SPID on that because the whole vibe is "not original". That one I intend to be my last 67-72 SWB. Anything else I do will either be another 67-72 configuration or more likely an older machine
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'67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi...project 'Driver Quality'
'72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok...'The 72'
Tim

"Don't call me a redneck. I'm just a rough cut country gentleman"

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Old 10-11-2017, 11:16 AM   #45
72chevynut
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Re: Question for the purists

Something else that should be mentioned in this purist thread is. What if the Glovebox door with SPID is the only original part of the truck? Maybe the bed is all new from CHINA, or any other part for that matter. Obviously that truck wasn't born with those parts. I agree with special-k, each one is on a case by case bases. If you actually talk to a seller and he states different from what you know is fact, then beware!
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:26 PM   #46
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Re: Question for the purists

I know of a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle Convertible that has more options than it originally came with and was rebuilt with mostly Chinese body parts but it is considered a numbers matching high dollar collector car ,go figure .
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:34 PM   #47
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Re: Question for the purists

I am not a purist... but I am glad that there are purist builders/restorers out there. So I don't have to be one.

As much as I love to hot rod trucks... I do like to see pure restorations and unmolested "survivors".

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Old 10-11-2017, 03:59 PM   #48
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Re: Question for the purists

SPID intended to ID parts , not vehicle
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:53 PM   #49
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Re: Question for the purists

Purist?....I don't think I've ever met one, at least not in the real sense.
Sort of like when someone tells you they are a 'perfectionist'....one quick glance or wide ranging conversation usually tells you, no...they are not...lol.

As for these trucks I'm with a lot of the guys here....keep the original spid and if you want or need to upgrade the truck for safety or comfort...go ahead.
As mentioned...I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to 'uninstall' a (non-SPID original) factory tach, tilt or am/fm that has been added to an original truck if they buy it later on.
I would never lie to a potential buyer about what came original on the truck vs. what was added.

my two bits.
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Last edited by Coley; 10-11-2017 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:00 PM   #50
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Re: Question for the purists

I don't really see *correctly* retrofitting optional equipment as "modification". It should
not be represented as original, but it represents a truck that could've been made right next to it. Now, if every '71/2 got converted to a Cheyenne Super w/396 and air we'd start missing a few painted-bumper 6 cylinders or good old moderately-optioned small
block trucks, but I'm more disappointed about the LS/overdrive/slamming craze eating up clean original trucks until examples of what these trucks *really were* are almost impossible to find and experience.
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