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Old 01-11-2014, 09:50 AM   #1
doubleclucker
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"its all about ol' black"

This started out on my 78 GMC K35 350/sm465/np205 I wanted a nv4500 and 203 doubler but it worked out that I done the trans swap first then the doubler 4 months later.
This is how I did mine....................

Finally found the rare 95 version with square top shifter and 5.61 first rebuilt on ebay for 960 shipped... (perfect)
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:06 AM   #2
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

First was to get rid of that aluminum tail housing and get a cast iron 1 .No way was I bolting a np205 and later a doubler to that factory tailhousing/mount combo. The cast one is about 3 times the weight of the aluminum. Also, my 205 has the additional weight of the duel shaft PTO running my winches.

If you look you can see the notch for the 205 shift rail as well as the shave for the 205 countershaft retainer nut below that.
I already had a round pattern np205 I had sourced out a year before that I was going to use
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:52 AM   #3
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Now onto my bellhousing I very simply took the factory sm465 bellhousing (the 85'-up hydraulic one ) fit it on the input bearing retainer of the nv4500(same size) set it straight and transfer punched the holes from the inside of the bellhousing to the face of the nv4500 drilled and tapped the face then bolted and wire locked it on ...done.
Keep in mind 95' and back nv4500 with external slave.
All bolts go outside of case if lined up correctly.
The bellhousing now has to be installed bolted on the transmission. (No problem went in easily with lots of room;Just like autos or nv5600 ,nv3500...)
Same clutch, release bearing ,pilot bearing ,fork and bell from the 4 speed I already had swapped to a 85'-up hydro bellhousing years before and had an extra one for this swap.
Forgot to mention the round pattern 86'-91 np205 has long 32 input I swapped out with the short 32 spline input from a 77'-84' bathtub np205. So no spacer is needed.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:55 AM   #4
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

cool thread, I've wanted to do this too!
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:09 AM   #5
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Time to address the shifters .
I wanted my twin sticks I was already using to come up in the same hole and position as before but wanted a shifter instead of a cable for the pto so i made a bracket for all and I could add another shifter to; for a doubler at a later date. this is what I made simple yet very strong.
The install is next.
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Old 01-11-2014, 11:52 AM   #6
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Did you modify the stock mechanical pedals or switch to hydraulic ones?
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:23 PM   #7
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Bluex- I did swap pedals then but ;The cab on it now is a 85' southern rust free was empty when bought .


I do recommend getting all pedal hardware from a donor truck of the same bellhousing.Most cabs from
85-up have a firewall dimple (if auto) for where to drill master cylinder rod hole for clutch (If I remember is 1 1/4"or 1"1/2)plus two 3/8" bolt holes.

Last edited by doubleclucker; 01-13-2014 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:46 PM   #8
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

It's like the ultimate 4wd setup! Very nice.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:47 PM   #9
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Ok, i have two sets of manual linkage pedals. Im trying to find some pictures from someone who used manual pedals with a hydraulic clutch. I just cant see paying 200 or more for the hydro pedals. I'm swapping to an nv3500 with the internal slave. I have found some ideas from older trucks but the manual pedal in these trucks is very different from the 60-72 trucks....
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:09 PM   #10
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Bluex- here are a few pics of the hydro pedals maybe you can make something work going by them.
Do you mean slave cylinder nv3500 95-n'back or hydraulic release bearing
nv3500 96'-up?
I have these transmissions in other vehicles I own s10 and blazers 90'-up
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:23 PM   #11
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Ya it has the release bearing. The transmission is from a 97 I believe. Thanks for the pedal pics, I've seen a few now an the biggest difference is the manual pedal is two pieces that bolt together. I'll figure something out when I get to that point...
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:29 AM   #12
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

This nv4500/roundnp205 combo is 1 1/2" longer then what I had which was a 85' sm465/bathtubnp205 and the new mount centerline was about 2 1/2" farther back and 4" higher up in the chassis.

This is how I decided to tackle this...

My existing crossmember(s) consisted of two the same drop down foot style with a 1/4 skid(bomb) plate covering it all and wanted to keep this; I like the way it ties it all together for strength.
So i had to make up a difference of 4". I decided to use 4x4 tubing(heavy wall) , welded and bolted to crossmember and the new style polyurethane trans mount.
note: If I had the flatter style 1 ton crossmembers 2x2 tubing would be enough.
as for the holes for the frame to crossmember I drilled holes in crossmember 2 1/2" from the rear hole and this will be my new front hole (rear in the frame that is already there) so that will line it up and I just had to drill out the other 2 holes in the frame when it was bolted on. I did drill the other 2 extra holes for strength.
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:58 AM   #13
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

The doubler was always in the back of my mind so the poly foot mounts I took out and the extra crossmember would maybe come into play at a later date.
Now my rear driveshaft I took to a shop and they shortened it 1 1/2" and balanced it in 2 hours and cost me $165.00.
My rear winch shaft I shortened myself in 1 minute (Chopsaw)
My front driveshaft I used a 3/4 ton one I had kicking around they are about 2" longer because of the smaller front diff.
My front winch shaft I had to buy new solid square stock to make up the 1 1/2" about $40.00
All and all I like the way this turned out and the cost was affordable for me.
The transmission shifts better and faster then the muncie 465 but not as fast as a nv3500 still has the heavy truck feel which is fine with me.
My R.P.M. drops 600 in fifth(o.d) very nice for fuel economy and the 5.61 first gear I can utilize more on the street.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:18 AM   #14
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Well after driving it around for a couple of months I was still thinking of a doubler but did not like aluminum ones till I came across John at JedsMachining all welded steel; oh yeah I'm in!
I wanted the shifter to mount on the drivers side beside the pto shifter as previously thought out and the conclusion I came up with; was a Ford NP 203 box with all GM gears installed (all I really needed to change was the input gear) But the ford box has the shift lever on the drivers side and jeds made me an adapter to go from rear ford to 6 bolt GM np205 all gaskets and hardware plus a couple of clocking options at no extra charge for this hybrid. It also came with a new 32 spline output shaft for the np203.

First off was to line up the mounts so they were both flat then transfer punch the 6 bolt GM pattern into the face of the ford box. The one pic shows how the gm pattern is the same only clocked different and would interfere with driveshafts if used in this position.
Also pics of the GM/Dodge np203 box beside ford and a pic of different rear output bearing retainers (though either one will work)
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #15
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Drill and tap the 6 holes in the face of np203; reassemble, and it was done.
By the way the input bearing retainers on both gear boxes needed no mods in this set-up.
For a front driveshaft;
I had kicking around was for a th400/np203 shaft that was longer but I needed a little more length so I decided to swap in a 32 spline front output shaft on the np205 from a ford/dodge (Why GM did not use 1 is beyond me) and a flange from a SQUARE-B GM np208 with special seal(SKF 18752) then use a driveshaft spacer to make up the rest this also gave me better clearence from front crossmember,(works perfect)
Also ordered up another boot, shifter and knob from jbfab.
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Last edited by doubleclucker; 01-15-2014 at 10:48 AM. Reason: seal part #
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:21 AM   #16
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

The install was to:
Unbolt np205 then;bolt up np203 box with doubler adapter to nv4500 then bolt np205 back in .
The rear crossmember that originally only held the back of the skid plate was now going to support the doubler mount with the poly foot mounts I took out originally from the nv4500 swap and newer style mount.
I had to move rear crossmember closer to front crossmember drill new holes in frame then tied it alltogether with the modified skid plate.
Super strong setup!
Then add new boot, shifter and linkage.The rear driveshaft went back to the same shop for a couple of hours to be shortened 9" and balanced again , the pto shafts were modified accordinally also.

New Low range ratio is 100.7:1 WOW!
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:45 AM   #17
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Very cool! That is a rock solid set up right there! Nice work. I love the front PTO and those sweet shifters.

I wish I had a doubler with my NV4500/205. I have the later NV4500 with the 5:61 granny gear. Sure miss the 6:34 granny of the old SM465. A doubler would sure fix that. I am in the process of redoing my NV4500/205 set up now by removing the Advance Adapters pieces and installing a round pattern 205.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:15 PM   #18
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Thank you dirtylarry .
I have enjoyed all your write-ups and pics on here as well.

The front winch is a 8000 pound rhino and the rear winch is a 20000 pound braden with the cable run under the bed and exiting through a fairlead just above rear bumper. With the pto on the transfercase I use my transmission gears- 5 power-in speeds and 1 reverse power out... now with the doubler -I have 10 power-in speeds and 2 power out !
(like I really needed that ! )

Last edited by doubleclucker; 01-13-2014 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:25 PM   #19
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

pic of rear winch
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:23 AM   #20
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

really nice work. is there a bellhousing that would bolt directly? like if it came from a 95 1 ton 454?
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:10 PM   #21
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Wrecked1982- I see your location is just a couple hours down the 401 from me small world
A 95 bellhousing would bolt right up to a 92-95 trans except it locates the slave cylinder on the passenger (right) side of truck and may cause clearence issues with the front driveshaft. It also inherently makes you use the hickey dick hose and slave affair from the 88-up non squarebodies.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:44 AM   #22
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

ohh thats cool we may ride together one day lol, i though you were fron new York didnt check your location carefully, i will put a 4 inches lift on my 1 ton so the slave cylinder should clear. i am really bad at drilling holes with a hand drill when it needs to be machine and taped straight
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:00 AM   #23
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

A floor drill press and some jigging are your friends on that one for sure.


I frequent there often only seperated by a river makes for alot cheaper shipping.

Last edited by doubleclucker; 01-16-2014 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:10 AM   #24
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

All those shifters will make a great anti theft device lol.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:30 PM   #25
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Re: My nv4500 swap then doubler ol' black

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewmp6 View Post
All those shifters will make a great anti theft device lol.
Yes it would if I hadn't put the shift pattern sticker on the inside roof! lol
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