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Old 04-19-2017, 05:10 PM   #1
Wheelie
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59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I recently finished my '59. In the process of restoring I flipped the rear axle and removed a few leaves from my spring pack which Im now regretting since I don't know what I did with those extra leaves. My axle wraps up bigger than **** and hops like crazy under hard accell. I know the cause and how to fix and possible solutions but Im curios what others did since there really isn't a set of slapper bars or anything that bolts up that I know of? Ideas?
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:28 PM   #2
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Ladder bar style or traction bars..one or the other would be my choice..I would use ladders if they would fit...or change springs...
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:48 PM   #3
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I ran a homemade bar on my rockcrawler like the one in this link. The rig had long flexy leaves mounted above the axle, a SBC, SM420 trans and 5.29 gears. The first time out in the rocks just messing around before the bar was installed, the leaves wrapped enough to actually snap off the rear pinion gear at the pumpkin. After putting the bar on I ran that rig for over ten years without another wrap problem.http://www.chassisunlimited.com/prod...n-bar-kit.html

Edited to add: Forgot to mention that we made the shackle end of my version reverse from what is shown in the link with the frame mount at the bottom of the shackle and the ladder mounted to the upper part of the shackle. That way when the front of the bar tries to lift under acceleration it can't since the shackle is a fixed length. You also wouldn't need heim / johnny joints like the link since it's designed for offroad articulation. Urethane bushings would be fine.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:44 PM   #4
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

what rear end do you have under your truck?

truk has a similar setup, flipped axle with leaves removed, removed the 3 short overload springs, still has the 4 long ones
no wheel hop, but on hard acceleration the driveshaft tilted up and rubbed the stock x-member
under truk is a gen 3 trans am axle that had an oem torque bar and the mounting boss cast in
i found a guy that deals with 3rd gen camaros and bought a stock torque bar from him
it works the same as the link posted by rdrancher, securely bolted to the rear end and has a shackle mount on front under the front u-joint
you can see it next to the drive shaft here





stock camaro/firebird/trans am had a sliding mount on the trans



a torque arm is easy enough to weld up, it doesn't have to be adjustable, that's for ''universal fit''
the front shackle is there to make up for the drive shaft length difference as the suspension travels
you can weld brackets on the axle or bolt it on
easy peasy



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Old 04-20-2017, 03:59 PM   #5
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Thanks yall, Ive got a ford 8.8 disc brake rear end. Rancher that just might be the ticket Im looking for. I have a parallel four link kit I may cut up to make that bar set up. Its looking like Im just going to fab up a triangulated 4 link if that fails. Just trying to avoid spending the time/money. I looked for my springs and I guess someone tossed them so adding those back on isn't an option. Having 420HP and no way to put it down is annoying.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:04 PM   #6
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

get yourself a flat overload leaf from a later model truck, I have lowered a LOT of trucks by pulling leafs and the cardinal rule is LEAVE the overload installed. I had a toyota years ago I pulled the overloads for the free 1/2" drop and it wrapped axle like a reno professional

I know it probably didnt have one installed originally, I am saying pop one in.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:31 PM   #7
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I would try the joedoh setup first just because the overloads are easy to come by at any spring shop, even a used one, and you would need to go there anyway for a set of spring bolts and possibly some new u bolts. try to get a long one while you aret here. if not, and you wanna keep your 4 link kit intact, you could try Welders series in Canada for some cheap parts to fab up a traction bar or torque arm set up. US dollar is pretty good right now. they have all kinds of useful brackets and kits. there is also the old fashioned traction bar set up with a rubber suspension stop bumper on the end. it just bolts to your spring plate with the u bolts, goes forward to the front of the spring and then a rubber bumper snubs against the eye of the spring. usually made out of square tubing becaiuse it is easy to come by and easy to weld a nut on the end, inside the tube, to screw the snubber onto. I also included a link with some pics to better describe what I mean. you could fab up a set in no time and try them. if they don't work you aren't out much. some have a square "u bolt" shaped thing that is supposed to encapsulate the spring leaves part way up to the front hanger so, on decell, the bar doesn't drop as the axle unwraps and ends up dragging a speed bump or porcupine (don't ask, I was picking quills out of my tires for a week). the last link is a ford forum that talks about different types of bars for the same reason you are asking about.

https://www.welderseries.com/

https://www.carid.com/lakewood/traction-bars.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ifference.html
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:39 PM   #8
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

back in the day I used to build V8 Vega's. they had some terrible wheel hop but I lived with it and just "took it easy"until it got so bad that the rad shook out of the mounts while doing a burn out. new rad, new fan, coolant clean up, tow etc etc. THAT'S when I got the traction bars. they worked great. not a leaf spring suspension but same principle. ladder bars look cool as well as function well. the trick is to get the forward pivot point inline with the spring pivot point so the two parts are not fighting for the front of the line all the time. either one will help with traction as well by transferring lift to the body as the axle is torqued upwards.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:42 PM   #9
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

ogre, that's pretty cool what you did there. are you a techie guy? copy and paster (thats what I do, and is the limit of my tech abilities. the reason for no build thread. I went thru and started one but don't know what part of oblivion it is sitting in right now, haha)

sorry for the hijack.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:28 PM   #10
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven View Post
copy and paster
yes

Quote:
the reason for no build thread
and for that you should get banned
i figured it was because you did nothing to your truck
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:55 PM   #11
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

yup, well, i have done nothing to my truck because I have been rehabbing from a major shoulder surgery, just spend time LOOKING at my truck.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:40 PM   #12
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I am anle to start weight training lately. up to 3 lb dumbells. woohoo.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:41 PM   #13
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Brings back memories of 1st gen Camaro single leaf suspensions. Used to just add "slapper" bars that allowed movement during regular driving but provided a moment arm against the spring during acceleration. Mopar had a more elegant solution, just used a pinon snubber.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:46 PM   #14
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsraven View Post
I am anle to start weight training lately. up to 3 lb dumbells. woohoo.

I Heard More Walking - with - 1 or 2 lb Aerobic weight Handles
would be easier - just let them Swing with Natural
Movement of Walking

Summer Coming in Quick , so Ya better get Hiking ..

If I'm not to Far away I'll come over and Spin a few Wrenches . .

I ran My Face into a Tree Limb about a 4 " - was Mowing and
Got distracted Turn Head and tried to Miss It - Bam . Good thing the Garden Tractor Stopped Quick . ( Now Have Road Rash )
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:12 PM   #15
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Just a thought. Would air bags or coilovers in front of the axle help?
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Old 04-23-2017, 11:23 PM   #16
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

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Originally Posted by whitedog76 View Post
Just a thought. Would air bags or coilovers in front of the axle help?

no. the problem isnt the weight on the axle or the spring rate, axle hop is exactly what it sounds like. there was a great visual in the movie bullit



see how the axle is moving forward and back? the spring in front of the axle is "wrapping" into an s shape and the wheel is hopping forward.

thats why a moment arm of slapper or traction bars fixes it, the axle starts to wrap and the snubber hits the spring, applying torque through a solid arm instead of the floppy spring.

thats why an overload will work, it leaves less spring length to wrap.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:26 AM   #17
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I left the original leaf perches on my axle and am welding new ones for the flip. I plan to use the perches on top for some sort of traction type bar.
My 4x4 has bars that bolt to the top of the spring plates and attach to the front leaf mount. Works real good. Might try something like that on 2wd.
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:23 AM   #18
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I'm responding to this as I haven't done much in Suspension Mods .

Bushings , Anti-Drive Offsets etc. , Sway Bars for Handing etc.

Looking at the Weight of a 1 Ton Set Up = Huge Weight to Control , So ?
Thinking of Dropping Out the Helper Springs - each side 26 lbs .

Currently No Shocks on this Axle - Considering - Variable Spring Assisted
Shocks HD Approx. 375-500 lbs Spring Rating Each ..as they Vary .

Hoping those would Replace the Helpers & Gain better Ride Control all
at the same Timer ..

Helpers Currently don't Start to get engaged unless You have 1500 lbs Load .
Don't Plan on Over Loading It as many might do . .sure 3000 lbs this Truck could handle . . @ Currently set up ..
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:46 AM   #19
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

I used a set like these on my 57, replaces the lower spring pad. Simple cheap effective. Nobody ever saw or noticed them.
Attached Images
  
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:29 PM   #20
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Understanding the theory of the parts we use can allow us to recreate parts to fill specific needs.

With my '57, doing burnouts is very common. I knew I could run into a wheel hop issue with the factory spring pack with a few leafs missing.

Traction bars were the answer but I kept the springs over the axle, yet, understanding the theory allowed me to redesign and solve the problem before it was a problem.



My tires will not make it to 10,000 miles, I don't care..... all I know is I have had zero wheel hop with the "slapper bar" design.

Building or finding a set for spring under axle design should easy to find or fabricate.

Good luck, Jim
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:07 AM   #21
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Nice solution Stepside Jim.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:03 AM   #22
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepside Jim View Post
Understanding the theory of the parts we use can allow us to recreate parts to fill specific needs.

With my '57, doing burnouts is very common. I knew I could run into a wheel hop issue with the factory spring pack with a few leafs missing.

Traction bars were the answer but I kept the springs over the axle, yet, understanding the theory allowed me to redesign and solve the problem before it was a problem.

My tires will not make it to 10,000 miles, I don't care..... all I know is I have had zero wheel hop with the "slapper bar" design.

Building or finding a set for spring under axle design should easy to find or fabricate.

Good luck, Jim
Nice setup there Jim.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:24 PM   #23
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Check out No Limit engineering.
I bought a set of their traction bars. they use the pinto/mustang/falcon front strut rod bushings on an angled pad.
bars are 4 feet long.
allows you to load the rear end with a forward or rearward bias. stops wheel hop and clutch chatter at the same time
pretty slick installation, and takes an hour each side to install with hand tools. probably half hour with pneumatic ratchet.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:22 PM   #24
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepside Jim View Post
Understanding the theory of the parts we use can allow us to recreate parts to fill specific needs.

With my '57, doing burnouts is very common. I knew I could run into a wheel hop issue with the factory spring pack with a few leafs missing.

Traction bars were the answer but I kept the springs over the axle, yet, understanding the theory allowed me to redesign and solve the problem before it was a problem.



My tires will not make it to 10,000 miles, I don't care..... all I know is I have had zero wheel hop with the "slapper bar" design.

Building or finding a set for spring under axle design should easy to find or fabricate.

Good luck, Jim
Where are the two bolts going at the spring perches? Through the springs?
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It's just another big pretty scar.
70 swb 4x4 406sbc 700r4 203/205 d60/14blt locker yadda yadda http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...88#post6935688
72 Blazer 2wd conversion project "No Daggum Money" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=550804 3.73 posi-4-speed Saginaw-307-no budget build.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:27 PM   #25
Port&PolishMan
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Re: 59 truck with axle flip and removed load leaves. Major axle hop!

Nice Set Up - Lead Foot Zepplin ! LOL

Wheelie Man - No Picture of Your Current Set Up - just what is Hopping Up & Down
????????????????
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