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Old 10-26-2020, 09:18 PM   #1
56 3100
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camaro clip crooked?

HI everyone dont hate on me too bad. i followed the no limit video exactly and seems like my gaps behind engine is not the same on both sides and its off towards drivers side as far as it can go? frame clip on crooked even though i double checked measurements ? i didnt fully weld clip it up fully yet so i can pull it back apart. i have another full subframe should i do the underneath the frame method as there seems to be enough frame section to redeem myself.








sorry johdoh for deleting i posted in build instead of here.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:55 PM   #2
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

no worriies. on a sbc (and really most V engines) the passenger valve cover is about an inch further back. here are two more pictures to show you, the first is the intake showing the passenger side is shifted back and the second is as close as I could get to a top down view as possible with a two minute google search. BBPanel and Black sheeps can easily be seen to have this same 1" difference once you adjust your eyes to the engine layout.

if you want a straight reference, use the parting line between the trans and the block. not the valve covers.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:02 PM   #3
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Why do you think there is a problem? If it's just the space behind the engine, that's normal. Measure a few points on the subframe to the truck frame on each side and wheel base on each side. Center of front wheel to back wheel. The heads on the engine are not straight across from each other.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:20 PM   #4
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

jodoh i will do just that with trans block parting line.PDW it just doesnt seem right .will measure everything again.

2 pics here look fairly even gap both sides.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:30 PM   #5
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Did you remove the clip from the donor or was it already removed? +

simply meaning that it may have been tweaked to begin with if you didn't see the donor vehicle.

I'd measure from set points on the subframe to set points on the frame that are even with each other on both. Meaning holes or spots on each that match on both sides.
This is how my buddy installed a number of Camaro clips on TF trucks. This one was going to be seriously low though. Main thing is that the bottom of the subframe rail is parallel with the bottom of the truck frame rail https://photobucket.com/u/mr48chev/a...2-85910f302fb5

I figured out that it works best to block your subframe up at it's stock ride height which has the bottom of the center of the crossmember about 6-1/2 inches off the shop floor and have the back legs level on the bottom and then with the truck frame level you block it up at the ride height you want to end up with and then mate the two.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:30 PM   #6
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

if you look at BBPanel and BlackSheep engiines, and draw straight lines on them, you can see they have the same clearance as yours, with the passenger valve cover further back. Black Sheeps is a little misleading because the EGR tube kind of looks like the back edge of the valve cover, but its not. also BBP looks to have a differently shaped firewall to accomodate? maybe thats how a V8 firewall looks, even s10s have a crooked firewall for the passenger V6 valve cover.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:59 AM   #7
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

could be much to do about nothing as they say.lol i am just fussy too.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:32 PM   #8
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

before you get all wired up and cut stuff apart. do a cross dimension on the stock part of the frame. from corner to corner so to speak. the front is already lopped off so pick spots on the original part of the frame that will be the same on both sides and use a non stretchable tape measure. some fiber tapes will have some stretch to them and some regular tapes have a movable tip because the rivets allow that. in that case the dimension can be off whether you pull on the tape end or push on the tape end. anyway, long story short, be sure the original part of the frame is square FIRST. next, block it up at the rake angle you want. check that with a digital level because the old bubble levels are only gonna get you close and also depend upon the angle that you are looking at them. a digital will get you within a tenth of a degree if you want. a digital torpedo level can be placed op top of a 4 ft level or some other straight edge and they usually have a magnetic base area. check the frame side to side and block it securely. next drop a plumb bob to the floor and put some marks down from identical places along the original frame on both sides. do the same from identical spots on the clip. now use the laser on your digital level, or a string line, to connect the dots and draw some lines fore to aft that will extend the original frame lines out past the front of the truck. now see if the front clip is parallel to your original frame or not and also see if it is centered side to side by comparing the drop points from the clip to the original frame lines on both sides. draw a line across at 90 degrees to your original frame and measure dimensions from that line to the drop points from your clip as well so you can see if it is square with the original frame. once you figure your clip is square then use the level to see if the clip is sitting level across the lower control arm pivots, fore to aft. the clip needs to be sitting level and at the ride height it was made for in order to have the suspension and steering geometry work as intended. I usually block the suspension at ride height , with the full weight of the complete car on the suspension, with some threaded rod through the shock mounts before I take the clip out of the original car for that reason. the springs can be adjusted later with the full weight of the new vehicle on the clip in order to keep the suspension at it's intended ride height, or at least close.
thats just what I would do. it's your truck, you decide. you need a good foundation to build on so get it right the first time. again, my opinion, your truck.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:32 PM   #9
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

thanks dsraven.lots of measuring ahead.
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:39 AM   #10
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

I would not used your cab to engine measurement to tell if you clip is crooked. Measure and re measure your clip to frame . Make sure neither has ever been tweeked or wrecked. Measure every way you can length , width , triangulate diagaonal and more. If unsure take it to a shop with a frame machine. Your key is the frame . If you using cab to engine gaps to determine if your frame is correct that may be bad recipe.

Kind of like this . If you ever build a house or shop with and unsquare basement or foundation it will cause problems all the way to top of the house. Good luck.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:10 PM   #11
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Thanks paul. i downloaded a frame drawing/blueprint to reference from.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:10 AM   #12
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Next all the guys with Ford 9-inch rear ends will be thinking their frame is off-center...
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:35 AM   #13
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

yes the pinions on those are offset.
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Old 10-31-2020, 11:47 AM   #14
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedoh View Post
if you look at BBPanel and BlackSheep engiines, and draw straight lines on them, you can see they have the same clearance as yours, with the passenger valve cover further back. Black Sheeps is a little misleading because the EGR tube kind of looks like the back edge of the valve cover, but its not. also BBP looks to have a differently shaped firewall to accomodate? maybe thats how a V8 firewall looks, even s10s have a crooked firewall for the passenger V6 valve cover.
After reading this I went out and measured. Holding a straight edge against the end of the valve cover and measuring from it to the firewall there is 1/2" to 5/8" difference between the drivers side and passenger side. The drivers side being farther. There does not appear to be much, if any cylinder head offset from side to side on a BBC. A lot of cars have the engine offset towards the passenger side to allow more clearance for the steering column and steering gear.
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Old 10-31-2020, 01:04 PM   #15
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Sheep View Post
There does not appear to be much, if any cylinder head offset from side to side on a BBC.

there is the same difference on a big block chevy, and really this will be on almost every V engine no matter what make or model or size, V2 V4 V6 V8 V10 V12 ford chevy dodge toyota from the inception of the V engine to current production.

its because the rod end journals cant occupy the same space on the crank, so one rod journal will ALWAYS be behind the other, so the opposing cylinders will be offset that width of the journal. you can see it in the picture I posted of the sbc intake, and here is a bbc intake for comparison.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Sheep View Post
A lot of cars have the engine offset towards the passenger side to allow more clearance for the steering column and steering gear.
this is true but isnt what he is talking about. all the other advice he is getting in the thread is also true but isnt why he started it.

he is thinking his clip is crooked because the passenger valve cover is closer to the firewall than the drivers. this is an inherent offset of a V engine, all of them have it.

instead of measuring for crooked from the firewall/valve covers, which on stock TF looks to have a recess for this offset, I told him the parting line on the engine/trans is perpendicular to the centerline of the engine, and to use it. it wont be perfect because the engine mounts will have a little wiggle room in them, but if you look down from the front edge of the cowl seam which SHOULD be perpendicular to the centerline of the frame (again, there could be wiggle room for body mounts) at the parting line of the trans it may bbe enough to pull him down from the ceiling thinking the clip is crooked.
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:52 PM   #16
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

If you have any questions about how straight your frame is, here you go!
Click on the link for your "Basics of Basics" on using a tram gauge for measuring.

https://www.hotrodders.com/threads/b.../#post-2549442

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Old 11-01-2020, 08:31 PM   #17
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Re: camaro clip crooked?

thanks for your input brian.
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