L29 454 Build for '63 K15 with NV4500

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by MTCK

Great work! That's an accomplishment that just makes a person smile. I was so relieved when it made oil pressure hahaha.

Uggh! I hooked up the oil pressure gauges today, lit it off and got 20lbs at idle. Did a little reading on the Gen VI engine and realized that since I deleted the oil cooler, I was supposed to pull out the bypass that is behind the filter mount. Small setback but another setback nonetheless. Not too worried yet. Made a lot of progress over the weekend. Hoping to be getting exhaust done week after next.

[MTCK]

Oh yeah. It's not hard. I threaded a 3/8" bolt into the bypass valve, then used a little crescent wrench as a slide hammer and it popped right out.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by MTCK

Oh yeah. It's not hard. I threaded a 3/8" bolt into the bypass valve, then used a little crescent wrench as a slide hammer and it popped right out.

Hey Marcus, did you notice a difference in the oil pressure afterwards? I'm used to firing up the 396 and seeing around 80 Lbs for 20 - 30 minutes until it's warm. Then it drops to 25 at idle and 60-65 off idle. The 454 came up to 20 really slow.

[MTCK]

I pulled the bypass valve out before initial startup, so I can't speak to the before / after. It pins the gauge at 60psi when cold and it drops to about 20psi at 600 rpm idle with 200F oil at the other extreme.

['63GENIII]

Thanks for the tip there Marcus! I threaded a 4"x3/8" bolt into that thing and voila! 60lbs cranking.
I got her out of the garage yesterday and down to the exhaust shop for 2-1/2 from the Thorleys out to the rear with an H pipe! She got there on her own power and without any tickets for open exhaust. Should be done tomorrow afternoon.
Cant wait!

[MTCK]

Awesome. Post up a video when you get it back! What mufflers are you running?

['63GENIII]

Marcus,
Im re using the 70 Series Flowmasters that have been on the truck for the last 5-6 years. They are absolutely HUGE, barely fit and double as underbody armor LOL. When I had them installed the first time, the guy said he usually puts them on motorhomes. They're fairly quiet when run all the way out the back and don't have the typical FM cackle or bark.
I dropped her off on Thursday night after making an appointment on Tuesday. The owner said "leave it with me all day Friday and it will be ready to pick up Friday night". Yesterday I dropped by the shop and got the "worst case, it will be done Saturday afternoon". I was bummed but still excited to hear this new cam!
I was out running errands this morning and stopped by and saw that it hadn't even been put on the lift. I asked if it would still be done today (knowing that he closes at 2 and it was 10am already) and got the "Im still shooting for today but worst case Tuesday".
I don't want to rush the guy and have him "bust the job out" since I like the work that Ive seen from him but damn its kinda frustrating. Im just hoping that on Tuesday I get it back and its a cherry looking install that sounds good.
Being in the trades myself I get that things come up and we all get after the quick cash when it shows up at the shop which back burners the bigger jobs. I don't want to pester the guy as Ive been on the other end of that and it just makes me want to get out of whatever job Im doing for someone. Soooo, hopefully Tuesday.
Sorry for the rant. Just getting a taste of driving it again after almost a year was too much. Truck crack? Yes, I think Im an addict!

[MTCK]

I hear all that! My truck was in exhaust jail over two weeks when I put the thorley headers on and got them hooked up. Worth the wait but it seemed like 2 months...

['63GENIII]

Exhaust jail LOL! Never heard it called that but it has a nice ring to it!

Im really hoping it turns out right. This guy is about double what it was 5 years ago at another place and that was with buying the mufflers on the first go round. Im hoping that it will translate into a better quality job than the last one.

Funny, as I am typing this, the "Warden" just called (which I expected) and asked if Tuesday would be alright as well as what size pipe I wanted. We went over a few details and it sounds like we are on the same page as far as having a clean system installed. I told him I didn't want to rush him and he said he didn't want to give me a sloppy install.

Looks like I get to start on the Wife's Bug this weekend

['63GENIII]

So the truck is out of exhaust jail and running pretty well. I was able to do the crankshaft variation relearn this morning which made the 1345 code go away. One problem that it's had since the beginning is it cannot seem to hold an idle and is hunting for the 800 rpm it is supposed to run at. My question for anyone still reading is this;

I have run the pcv line to a port just behind the throttle body. On the other valve cover, I have a small vent / filter. Should I have run this to the manifold instead of just leaving it open? I'm hoping that I've answered my own question. Just really not too sure on this one.

['63GENIII]

And even though I really haven't put it through its paces since I'm trying to take it easy for the first couple hundred, this engine pulls like a damn freight train!

[MTCK]

Can you send a pic? I'm a visual guy and it's -7 outside so I don't want to go look at mine hahaha.

['63GENIII]

Hey Marcus. Thanks for replying. Can't send pics off of the phone and the Wife has the laptop for work right now. I did try running the "vent" back into the manifold but it's still surging. Think I'm going to try to get a gauge onto the fuel rail to check the FPR and pump pressure as I've read alot about bad FPRs and low fuel pressure causing the surging. Soon as she's finished making our next million, I'll post some pics, LOL! Til then , keep warm!

And to think i was complaining about having to cut wood today BC it's in the 40s here today. I couldn't imagine -7 on a regular basis!

[MTCK]

I looked at some of your previous pics, and don't think the way you have the pic set up should be a problem. I did a new fpr when I put mine back together. Did blackbear do a tune for you after you got the motor together or is it off the shelf? Let me know if you need a reference for a custom tune. Guy who did mine did an awesome job.

['63GENIII]

I put in a new FPR as well when I was doing the injectors. I had read in a bunch of places that they were know for failing and dumping too much fuel. Thought I had that covered.

I ended up renting a FI pressure test kit from O'Reilly's just an hour ago. Hooked it up and got 50lbs key on engine off, 42lbs engine running (like crap). So I shut it down and pinched the return line with needle nose vise grips. The pressure shot to 90 while running so I shut it down not wanting to damage anything. I then started the truck, got under it and pinched the return again and the idle smoothed out immediately. Let the hose go and it idled rough again. I did this several times and got the same result. Pinched - idles great. Not pinched - idles terrible.

Does this mean that the new FPR is no good or does it mean the pump has a problem?
Either way, I think it's narrowed down a little.

Gonna build a fire now. Supposed to get into low 40s tonight. Lol
Thanks,
Chris

[MTCK]

Honestly I'm not 100% sure how the fpr works on these motors; if they maintain constant pressure or index with vacuum. Not to further complicate things, but if your tune is lean, adding pressure could smooth it out. Are you running it long enough to go closed loop? Setting any trouble codes?

['63GENIII]

Hey Marcus, Im gonna guess that they index with vacuum. The only code that I have seen is the crank shaft sensor code. I was able to get rid of that by doing the relearn (5000 rpm on an engine with less than 50 miles on it ).

It starts hunting for idle and surging as soon as it hits closed loop which is 30 to 40 seconds or so after starting. It was surging while I was testing the pressure on the rail last night after it went to CL. As soon as I pinched the return, it got super smooth and evened out. I didn't hold the line like that for too long as I don't think the pumps are meant to push 90# for too long. As soon as I let the line go it went back to surging as is it had never stopped.

I hate to think that i put a defective new part in but all I can do is pull the upper manifold, turn on the pump and check for leaking injectors then put a vacuum tester / gauge on the FPR to see if it leaks. I got this one from Oreillys thinking that they are all probably from the same manufacturer. Ill return this one but probably won't get the replacement there. Maybe NAPA? Summit? I know that Five - 0 Motorsports sells one and they are the guys I got the injectors from. Just wish I knew who makes a reliable one.

Im working OT again for the next couple of weeks and getting home late. I don't want to bug the neighbors with the tuning at 9:00 at night so Its gonna have to wait for the weekend. Im going to do the fuel rail pressure test over again but this time Ill change the RPM up to see if the pressure changes.

If you or anyone else knows what it should be at different RPMs please let me know. Im gonna do a little research on it myself in the meantime.

['63GENIII]

Well I ran the pressure test again today and got a best of 42 lbs. I idled it, gave it a quick stab to drop the vacuum and then put it under a load and the pressure never changed. I guess the regulator is supposed to keep the pressure constant. Vacuum at idle was 17.5 - 18 inches. I figured thats pretty good?

I decided (guessed) that it had to be the regulator. I called NAPA and they had a Delphi unit in stock so I ran down and picked it up.

Pulled the manifold, swapped the FPR and tested it with the upper plenum off. 56# but dropped rapidly. I pulled it out again, checked the o rings which looked good and popped it back in. Tried key on and 56# again dropping rapidly once the pump shut off. I threw the upper plenum on anyway and tried to start it. It fired up and maintained a steady 52# and no surging yet although it only idled for 30 minutes. Didn't want to get too loud as it was getting late. Weird thing though, after shutting it down, it held the 52# for a good while. As soon as I keyed the pump on, It went to 56 and then dropped rapidly again. If I started the engine and shut it down, it held at 52 for 10 - 15 minutes. Not sure why it holds pressure after starting the engine but not when the pump is keyed on. Is there a check valve of some sort in the pump that helps hold the pressure?

I did notice some differences between the BWD unit from Oreillys and the one from NAPA. Ill post the pics. I thought that the Delphi might have been made in the US but like the BWD, its from China.

Going to try to take it for a drive tomorrow night. We will see if this worked.

[MTCK]

Great news! I checked mine during first startup and it always dropped as soon as the pump shut off. That is peculiar. At least it holds where it should be when it's running. I used an ac delco fpr off of amazon and think it was hecho en Mexico.

Hope you hit the road tomorrow!

['63GENIII]

Update. Ive been messing with it all day, driving it after each change. First ride felt like it was running out of gas. Back in the driveway, take the car and a gas can to remedy this (gas gauge isn't working yet). Got 10 gallons in it and took it for a ride. Still died at stops, idle is still hunting around but not as bad as before.

I tested TPS ground, input and output voltage. All good there.

I then pulled the IAC, cleaned it with throttle body cleaner. Re installed and ran it. No change there. Still feels as though its running out of fuel.

I then read the voltage going to the fuel pump while running. I had it connected to a Batt terminal in the fuse box - 12.5v. I figured that might be something so I connected the fuel relay directly to the battery (fused of course) and read 13.6. I figured that must be it right? Well the test drive proved that wrong as well. I drove it down to Oreillys to borrow their fuel pressure gauge again. They've been pretty cool about helping me out. I think they want to see this thing run as much as I do! Well, the results of the FP test yielded 52# with key on engine off. Barely 48# with engine running. When I shut it off, the pump comes on again, get 52# and stays there for eternity. I keep reading that these engines need anywhere from 55 - 60 or so # all the time. Can anyone confirm this? Im really thinking that this may be the root of the issues Im noticing.

Im really wondering if I got a bunk fuel pump? I got the EP381 from Summit and swapped it into my Blazer tank sending unit. When I pinched the return line, it hit 90#. Does this sound right? I don't see any leaks anywhere.

Ive also changed the IAC and fuel filter. No change in the way it runs with either.

The idle is a little rough, acts like its running out of fuel leaving a stop (have to feather the throttle) but goes great once it gets rolling. Under 1000 rpm is where Im having issues.


Kind of at a loss right now. Any suggestions would help.

Thanks,
Chris

[MTCK]

4 bar system should be 58 psi. You have your ses light hooked up right? Still not setting any codes? From tuning my old Holley commander 950 on a 350 with sm465, tuning the bottom end of a manual trans engine is CHALLENGING. If it was way out of whack I would be expecting a ses light... You don't have a wide band O2 by chance do you? Adding one to my C950 was critical to getting it right.

[MTCK]

Oh and stumbling when leaving from a stop is likely acceleration enrichment. Manual trans motors ramp up load really quickly when you let the clutch out. IIRC the AE has a stupid long delay on these motors from the factory. My "hot" Howell tune was bone stock with a couple more degrees of timing at high rpm. Never ran quite right until I had it tuned.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by MTCK

4 bar system should be 58 psi. You have your ses light hooked up right? Still not setting any codes? From tuning my old Holley commander 950 on a 350 with sm465, tuning the bottom end of a manual trans engine is CHALLENGING. If it was way out of whack I would be expecting a ses light... You don't have a wide band O2 by chance do you? Adding one to my C950 was critical to getting it right.

Its kinda weird. Im not seeing anything close to 58. 54-55 with engine off but idling is 45-48. If I goose it which drops the vacuum, maybe 52. Im kicking around the idea of using the Corvette filter - regulator combo. Cant keep pulling the upper plenum off! The combo is permanently set at 58 psi.

Wide band O2? guess I'm a little ignorant here. Ive got the stock o2s. They're new but wide band? Im not sure. Whats the difference? Be gentle please.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by MTCK

Oh and stumbling when leaving from a stop is likely acceleration enrichment. Manual trans motors ramp up load really quickly when you let the clutch out. IIRC the AE has a stupid long delay on these motors from the factory. My "hot" Howell tune was bone stock with a couple more degrees of timing at high rpm. Never ran quite right until I had it tuned.

The stumbling thing is new. Its not dying like it used to but now its stumbling and lost any throttle response that it had. As if it was running out of gas with a carb...pump the gas a little and it gets above 1000 rpm and its fine. Does it in neutral as well. No load. Weird.

Only code is the crank position switch again. Not sure how it lost it after I did the relearn but I don't think it would affect the fuel pressure. Supposedly counts misfires by crank angle. Didn't really notice a difference after it had relearned it the first time. I would have reset it today but its kinda tough to find a place to twist it to 5800 in neutral without turning a few heads. LOL. Besides, it gives me the willies to do it anyway. Lots of rotating mass in that new engine!

[MTCK]

No worries this stuff was all Greek to me until I got into it a bit. Stock O2 sensors are narrow band so they just tell the computer rich or lean. A wide band will tell you how rich or how lean by giving actual AF ratios. I couldn't tune my Holley system without it.

I think the vette filter is a returnless style so not sure that will work. You could try to get an AC delco FPR? Seems the interweb says lots of problems with aftermarket versions. I can't speak from experience. I hear you on needing to stop pulling the upper intake...

Did blackbear tune your truck on site or was it their off the shelf tune? How aggressive is your cam? That could be a sticking point too. Larry has horror stories about trying to get his 8.1 tuned with that raylar cam but I had a very good experience.