The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > General Truck Forums > Paint & Bodywork

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2017, 09:58 AM   #1
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Door lock issue

Any help appreciated:

I'm assuming here that the part that mounts to the door jamb of the vehicle, not the door itself, is the striker plate, I may be wrong

My door lock works fine when the door is open. When the door is fully closed, I cannot lock it, i can feel the lever hitting something when I turn the key. If I press the door opening mechanism (the part you push in with your thumb when opening the door), the door can be pulled away from the vehicle an inch or so without fully disengaging from the (striker?).

In this partially open, partially closed position, the door will lock.

I've tried adjusting the striker plate forward and backwards. I've also loosened and wiggled the part on the door that engages it without success. I removed the shims on the striker that move it forward towards the door and back (left and right while facing the vehicle), but that failed as well. I thought I would post and perhaps someone here can help.

Here is a pic of where the door needs to be for it to lock freely.

Thanx
Attached Images
 

Last edited by dave`12; 03-31-2017 at 10:29 AM.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 12:25 AM   #2
MARTINSR
Registered User
 
MARTINSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay area Ca USA
Posts: 2,927
Re: Door lock issue

Have you tried it with the door open and simply using a screw driver or something latch the latch and see if the lock works properly?

Brian
__________________
1948 Chevy pickup
Chopped, Sectioned, 1953 Corvette 235 powered. Once was even 401 Buick mid engined with the carburetor right between the seats!
Bought with paper route money in 1973 when I was 15.

"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"
MARTINSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 09:31 AM   #3
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Have you tried it with the door open and simply using a screw driver or something latch the latch and see if the lock works properly?

Brian
I was hoping you would see this, I know you know your stuff

The door locks both with the key and manually with it open. Not sure what you mean with the screwdriver, where and how.

I think the lever that moves when you lock the door hits something, but only when it is completely closed. I can close the door with the first click, it will still be ajar, but won't open, and lock it.

But then the dome light would be on, not to mention that it's just not right, and I really want it right.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #4
MARTINSR
Registered User
 
MARTINSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay area Ca USA
Posts: 2,927
Re: Door lock issue

I mean to simply use a screw driver to push the latch shut with the screw driver acting as the striker.

Brian
__________________
1948 Chevy pickup
Chopped, Sectioned, 1953 Corvette 235 powered. Once was even 401 Buick mid engined with the carburetor right between the seats!
Bought with paper route money in 1973 when I was 15.

"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"
MARTINSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 01:37 PM   #5
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I mean to simply use a screw driver to push the latch shut with the screw driver acting as the striker.

Brian
Yes, it works when I do that.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2017, 05:25 PM   #6
tdangle
Senior Member
 
tdangle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jurupa Valley, Ca
Posts: 270
Re: Door lock issue

I've heard that if the latch is worn, pressure on it while being closed causes the lock to be hard. I guess the star wheel gets off centered. I have the same problem, just haven't had a chance to get a new latch yet to test it out. More common on drivers doors also, which makes sense since its used much more often.
__________________
Terry

1970 C20 Custom Camper, 350/TH350 with Dana 60 4.11, AC, side tool box, wood bed floor. Has been in the family since new
tdangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #7
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdangle View Post
I've heard that if the latch is worn, pressure on it while being closed causes the lock to be hard. I guess the star wheel gets off centered. I have the same problem, just haven't had a chance to get a new latch yet to test it out. More common on drivers doors also, which makes sense since its used much more often.
Thanks. If you figure it out before I do, please let me know.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2017, 06:19 PM   #8
my56chevytruck
Registered User
 
my56chevytruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Hebron
Posts: 490
Re: Door lock issue

any chance the striker plate (on the door jam) has been moved from driver side to passenger side? Don't know if that's possible. Have you tried taking the striking plate off the jam and see if the door closes completely without latching?? and you say with the door handle it latches closed?
__________________
RUBBER DOWN AND HIT THE ROAD!!!
my56chevytruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 04:39 PM   #9
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Here is the fix....a new latch.
Or modify the worn latch to work.
When the door is closed the rubber seal on the jamb and the bumpers create force outward which spins the lock wheel, over time this wears the lock wheel "catch" or "pawl"
This part is separate from the lock pawl, the latch pawl wears from frequent usage, the lock pawl doesn't wear very much at all.
You can remove some metal from where the lock pawl engages and it will work freely with the door closed. You might have to remove the pawl from the latch by filing the staked rivet and punching it out, then re-stake it or weld it back in.

The lock pawl and lever on the latch does 2 things, 1 it prevents the inside and outside handle from disengaging the latch pawl. 2 it engages the latch to prevent it from unlatching, this is the part that is hanging up because it didn't wear with the latch pawl.

Short term work around is when the door is closed if you push in on the door it will lock and unlock freely. It might take a lot of force if the latch is severely worn or lots or pressure exerted by the seals and door bumpers.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 04:40 PM   #10
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Oh and I bought a truck with new repro latches, they work correctly and seem to be of adequate quality.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 05:17 PM   #11
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Thanx 56, no they have not been swapped, and yes it closes completely.

Thanks randy, take a look at this:

http://www.ecklerstrucks.com/chevy-t...1967-1972.html

So you are saying that the lever (pawl) that turn it is not worn, but the wheel is?

Not with the vehicle now, I will have to look at them. Do you know if the latch is riveted it? Will I have to weld in a new one?

Thanx again - I'm thinking you are correct.

As an aside, I have new weather stripping and you have to just about slam the doors to get them to close, perhaps that is related. I'm not sure how it was before, I didn't try to lock the truck while I was putting it together...
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 05:43 PM   #12
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave`12 View Post
Thanx 56, no they have not been swapped, and yes it closes completely.

Thanks randy, take a look at this:

http://www.ecklerstrucks.com/chevy-t...1967-1972.html

So you are saying that the lever (pawl) that turn it is not worn, but the wheel is?

Not with the vehicle now, I will have to look at them. Do you know if the latch is riveted it? Will I have to weld in a new one?

Thanx again - I'm thinking you are correct.

As an aside, I have new weather stripping and you have to just about slam the doors to get them to close, perhaps that is related. I'm not sure how it was before, I didn't try to lock the truck while I was putting it together...
That is the latch, its held in with 3 Philips screws, real large size, should use an electric or air impact with proper bit to remove as they are tight and have locking teeth at the outer edge of the screw. I think you can find the latch in the $35 price range if you shop around.

Those new door seals are always that way and never ever free up at all, its just the way it is. Once I cut half the bulb out of the rubber to make the door easier to close and it still had a "seal"

You can test my explanation with the door open by holding the toothed wheel with your hand with counterclockwise pressure, when you lock the door you will feel the wheel move.

Usually the passenger side isn't nearly as bad because it doesnt get used as much.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 05:46 PM   #13
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

To get the latch out, remove the door lock first.
Remove the lower rear window channel and work it free from the back window run weatherstip, don't remove the weatherstrip completely.
Take the latch out with the lock rod and the inside handle control and rod attached. Install it the same way.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 06:40 PM   #14
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Thanx,

Thinking - since it locks when open and partially closed, then when I close it all the way, the wheel is turning, but not as far as it should?
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 06:49 PM   #15
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

The wheel is turning farther than designed, from wear on the latch pawl. The excess rotation prevents the lock pawl from engaging. I think they both engage the same part just different teeth on it.

Think of it this way. The lock pawl never holds any force of keeping the door closed or clicking into the teeth as the door closes so it doesn't wear. The latch pawl gets all the wear and allows the teeth to rotate further. The lock pawl has no way of compensating for the excess rotation, it runs into the tooth instead of engaging.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 06:51 PM   #16
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

I'm positive the new repro latch will solve the problem. I will go out and test it right now and report back.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 06:58 PM   #17
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Your help is much appreciated. I can feel something hitting when I turn the key, must be hitting the pawl because the wheel is in the wrong position, making the pawl in the wrong position.

Please forgive my ignorance, I've never dealt with this . In fact, I didn't know what a pawl was until I just googled the word.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:11 PM   #18
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave`12 View Post
Your help is much appreciated. I can feel something hitting when I turn the key, must be hitting the pawl because the wheel is in the wrong position, making the pawl in the wrong position.

Please forgive my ignorance, I've never dealt with this . In fact, I didn't know what a pawl was until I just googled the word.
No problem on the help its something I have thought about for a long time, I forgot that this is an issue.

I went out and looked at a couple latches I had on the bench and tried 2 on the car, one on the car acts like yours one does not. Neither have seals installed but I put outward pressure on the door to replicate the problem. Did the same to the toothed wheel on the bench.

The tooth wheel on the outside has a similar part on the inside but the back side of the teeth are straight, not curved for the lock pawl and latch pawl.
The wear is not noticeable because the latches are dirty but it is as described.
The latch pawl engages a different tooth than the lock pawl.
The latch pawl allows the toothed gear to rotate too far which then the lock pawl just slams into the place it needs to latch to. It worn as I described before and a new latch will cure the problem.

I also noted that you could remove the latch and grind down the lock pawl easily with a die grinder with a carbide bit if you wanted to go that route.

A new latch would probably latch smoother though because the latch pawl is not worn. The pin the round toothed gear rotates on gets worn and so does the hole. I bet you bet better door closing too with a new latch as nothing is moving around so much to latch.

Check the striker in the door jamb to and make sure the teeth on the far side are smooth and still convex, if they have a flat spot it might need replacing too for smooth engagement.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:22 PM   #19
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Think of the teeth and pawls this way.
Lets say there are 8 teeth, each 45 degrees apart.
As designed the latch pawl engages tooth A and the lock pawl tooth C
All the teeth wear evenly from randomly engaging the lock pawl everytime the door latch is operated. Slowly the tooth and the pawl wear which changes the engagement point from 0 degrees to a few more degrees of rotation.
The lock pawl is separate and expects to engage at 0 degrees, it can no longer engage because the place it engages has rotated a few degrees, due to the wear on the pawl and the engagement point.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:29 PM   #20
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

And to re-iterate, locking the door by the key or the pull rod does 2 things.
1. It locks out the handles from disengaging the latch pawl.
2. A lever also rotates into the latch, effectively double latching the door, its this part that is not worn. You could remove this pawl entirely and the door would lock as it would still lock out handle motion from the inside handle and the outside one.

Some European cars and I think old fords unlock the door when the inside handle is used. these trucks do not because of the design, latch pawl and lock pawl acting on the lock with inside and outside handle disable feature when locked
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:40 PM   #21
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

wow. I think you should come over and look at it, south florida is a short ride and the weather is beautiful today.

Seriously, you have really helped. This site is incredible, with people like you always solving my problems.

When I get to the vehicle (not home now), I'm going to toy with those parts (which I now know by name). I have a grinder, maybe it's close enough that I can get it to work. If you don't mind, I would like to post a couple of pics, see what you think of the wear on the latch, etc. But it may be a couple of days, I'm pretty busy on the weekends.

Worst case, I spend 50.00 to fix the issue, which, I guess is not too bad considering how much I've already dumped into the truck.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 07:44 PM   #22
randy500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 2,470
Re: Door lock issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave`12 View Post
wow. I think you should come over and look at it, south florida is a short ride and the weather is beautiful today.

Seriously, you have really helped. This site is incredible, with people like you always solving my problems.

When I get to the vehicle (not home now), I'm going to toy with those parts (which I now know by name). I have a grinder, maybe it's close enough that I can get it to work. If you don't mind, I would like to post a couple of pics, see what you think of the wear on the latch, etc. But it may be a couple of days, I'm pretty busy on the weekends.

Worst case, I spend 50.00 to fix the issue, which, I guess is not too bad considering how much I've already dumped into the truck.
Were dying for sun here....been a very rainy year.

Taking the door apart is a hassle, your pics look like its a nice truck. If it were me I would find the cheapest new latch and install it because I think it will work better overall but like I said grinding it will fix the problem and it will be a permanent fix.
randy500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 07:13 PM   #23
67 Burb
Registered User
 
67 Burb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 394
Re: Door lock issue

While on the subject of door latches and such, does anyone know where to get the latch control or relay for a 67? LMC, for example show on their site, 68-71, and no listing for a 67. Is there a difference between the part for 67 and 68-71?

Mine in my Burb sure looks like this one.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Bob

1967 2wd Burb, 350/TH350, 3.73 posi
67 Burb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 03:44 PM   #24
dave`12
Registered User
 
dave`12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: miami florida
Posts: 417
Re: Door lock issue

Finally an update: I went ahead and bought the new latch for 50.00. Quite a bugger putting it in, you can't even see in there, it's all by feel. I put the new one by my old one, once it was out, and didn't see much if any wear on the old one. But took Randy's advice and just replaced it anyway.

Works perfect now.

Thanx much Randy.
dave`12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 04:02 PM   #25
MARTINSR
Registered User
 
MARTINSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Francisco Bay area Ca USA
Posts: 2,927
Re: Door lock issue

Right on!


Brian
__________________
1948 Chevy pickup
Chopped, Sectioned, 1953 Corvette 235 powered. Once was even 401 Buick mid engined with the carburetor right between the seats!
Bought with paper route money in 1973 when I was 15.

"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"
MARTINSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com