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Old 10-08-2010, 12:31 PM   #1
53GMC
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Painting Advice

Hey guys,

I'm almost to the point my ride is ready for paint. I want to do it myself and i have a spray gun that i bought but i have no clue what products to buy, (maybe use epoxy primer?), then base coat, then paint?

Help an unintelligent painter please!!!
I've rolled plenty of walls, never sprayed a truck.....any and all details needed and APPRECIATED!!

you guys on here are awesome and always help me...thanks in advance for doing it again...

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Old 10-08-2010, 12:38 PM   #2
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Re: Painting Advice

not to be too critical but you should more specific what you are looking for. it is almost like asking a carpenter "i have a hammer how do i build a hotel"
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:58 PM   #3
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Re: Painting Advice

I used the Valspar Epoxy primer for the first time on my cab and was impressed. It is not cheap 66 bucks for primer+hardner then bought some thinner just so it would spray good, so say 80 bucks total. I'm not sure I would go to that cost again but, I'm still old school when it comes to painting, just give lacqur primer and thinner. Even if it ain't the best way. Do give us more info as to your plans so we can give you the best advice.
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Old 10-08-2010, 06:23 PM   #4
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Re: Painting Advice

Since you've rolled paint on a wall, roll it on your truck. I'm not being a d!ck...I rolled on rustoleum on my 53 (google $50 dollar rustoleum paint job). It's not for everyone. You might not be able to spray your truck right, then you're gonna be out 100's. If you can't roll right you'll be out 30 or so dollars.
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:36 PM   #5
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Re: Painting Advice

ppg, dupont, nason, valspar.

dont be too overcome by thinking you cant do it. just look at it like, hey, if i mess it up, then i can fix it. best way to learn. as far as primers go, epoxy will work great, try and get the primer color closest to the base color your wanting to spray. aka, white, white primer sealer, black, black primer, dark green, black, light green, use white. you get the picture. then sand it down with some 180, then 320, clean it off with some wax and grease remover, spray down 2 to 3 medium coats of base with 15ish minutes between each coat. each product differs so check what they all reccomend. then as far as clear goes, ive always had good luck spraying on the first coat a dry to medum coat. then the second one you can lay on pretty thick without run issues. then the third one, just go for coverage.

this is just some baseline deals, i would definetally reccomend watching some videos with sommore in depth steps, but that should give you a start.
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Old 10-10-2010, 06:18 PM   #6
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Re: Painting Advice

Check out the Dupli Color Paint Shop series (or something similar to that name). It's a bit expensive, but super easy to use. It comes ready to spray - no reducers, hardeners, or mixing needed. Just load it and shoot it. They make the whole system - primer, base coat, and clear coat. About as easy as it gets...
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:43 PM   #7
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Re: Painting Advice

Thanks guys for your help! That is some really good information...im going to read it and then reread it again to try to soak it in....i had heard that i needed to use an epoxy primer or something from a friend and had actually seen the rustoleum roll jobs done on here and i sort of like those....i hate my question was vague but when I didnt know what to ask it was hard to be specific....doing painting for the first time and learning the basics first haha

but that is a ton of great info and i will weigh all the options you guys laid out there for me! thanks again!
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:03 PM   #8
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Re: Painting Advice

More information is needed:

Since you have a spray gun we will also assume you have a compressor. What type and size (CFM) compressor do you have? Also what spray gun do you have?

What type of paint are you wanting to use? Base coat/Clear coat? Single stage acrylic?

What condition is the body in now? Do you have to repair any rust or dents?

Where are you planning to paint the truck?

Is the truck completely assembled or disassembled?

What level of paint job are you looking for?


The epoxy primer is typically used for two things. To protect bare metal that has been stripped on top of which further body work is performed or used as a seal coat after all body work and high build primer has been worked smooth.

Assuming your truck is in good shape you will need to sand the current finish downusing various grit sizes, remove any rust you come across, spray it with high build primer (not epoxy) which will fill in small imperfections and scratches, block sand the primer smooth, then apply the color. This of course is a simplified explanation of a labor intensive process.

There are very cost effective primers both high build (2K urethane) and epoxy available from Summitt Racing. I have used both and find them more than adequate. They also have single stage paints and base coat paints along with good quality clear coats. All are priced better than what you find at local paint houses in my experience.


Give us more information on your project, your budget and your plans and we can give you better advice.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:04 PM   #9
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Re: Painting Advice

Thanks Houston for your help.

The reason i asked this question is because I don't know the best route to take...i left the question vague so that you guys could suggest the route you took...but i guess vague doesnt help you guys much...sorry for that

I didn't even know there was such a thing as high-build primer but i will look into getting some and using that....my body is in pretty good condition with most all of the dents and dings finally worked out....I'm not sure about the different types of paint i would like to use yet, but im assuming a base coat then a clear coat will give a nice shine? i've rolled walls but those choices were eggshell, satin, and Kilz primer! haha I was planning on painting the truck as a whole, all metal to metal touching surfaces have been primed already but the truck complete needs to be done...once again, im not looking for a $3000 dollar paint job, but one that I could do myself, look good enough to ride around town, and be proud of...

thanks again guys...
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:22 PM   #10
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Re: Painting Advice

Just did my 72 blazer with valspar dtm (direct to metal ) sandable filler primer sealer i ordered in orange ,but you can get it in many colors.Then i blocked it out and shot it with kirker hugger orange that covered very easy,i really liked the paint and primer .the paint was like 70.00 a gallon and it took 3/4 gallon to shoot my firewall ,dash ,body(4 coats on the body)2 coats on firewall and dash .didn't do the top.Bought my kirker acrylic urethane single stage from smart shoppers.Kirker makes some real good epoxy primer also, for $50 a gallon ,i used it on a 32 ford i have.
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Old 10-13-2010, 11:12 AM   #11
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Re: Painting Advice

if you're in the market for a cheap-o paint job - I watched an episode of Extreme 4x4 on Spike a while back where they painted an old Bobbed Duece with just regular Wagner paint sprayers, the type you'd use for painting walls on a house that you can get at Home Depot for like $70. They used the Duplicolor Paint Shop series paints that do not require any reducers/hardeners or anything. It looked like a decent 20' paint job...

when I build my daily driver I'm going to try out this method.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:03 PM   #12
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Re: Painting Advice

Go to your local automotive paint supply store. Find the oldest guy there and make him you new best friend. Pick his brain on the different options. Most important is knowing which primers, fillers, sealer, base/clear or single stage materials are compatible. As my guy says, they live by the numbers on the can. Use incompatible materials and you will have problems later on. My guy directed me to Everclear products for primers, Nason for sealer and base and Chromacolor for clear. Nason and Chroma system are Dupont and compatible. All of the major paint companies have good online information and data sheets that list compatible materials. As was said you need to decide what your end result is going to be. Take some time and look through different message board paint and body sections to get an idea of the advantages and limitations of each type.

A guy using MartinSR has a good series articles on body and paint topics, he is an experienced paint and body guy. What you will find is the actual painting is the quickest step. Preparation and compatibility is key, more time spent on prep, better the paint job. I just posted a photo in my build thread of my newly painted firewall. Took 10 minutes to shoot the final coat. 10 hours to weld grind and bump, another 8-10 to finish with plastic, sand, do it again, prime and sand, then another 3-4 hours to prime again and block it down until I was happy. I haven't kept track of the hours on the body so far but I'm sure I am in the hundreds and mine was relatively rust free.

Also critical is understanding the health and safety problems associated with modern coatings. They are basically air borne plastics that can literally coat the inside of your lungs and nasal passages. Never sand or paint without an agressive mask made specifically for automotive paint and dust. Need to also look at the environment you will be working in. Most primer can be done is a garage, a few bugs and dust specks won't hurt. You can retro fit your garage act like a booth but in most places its illegal because of EPA clean air laws. I live in a neighborhood of gearheads so an occasional wiff of paint is not a big deal (plus there is a breeze most of the time to dispurse it). I could never get my shop clean enough to do a final job and am going to rent a real booth when I do the final seal/base/clear.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:32 PM   #13
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Re: Painting Advice

start reading all the information you can find. as said go to a paint shop and let them know what you want to do and ask what is the best paint for my budget? paint shop guys have always been very helpful to me. quick story, in 1977 i had a 70 c10 and wanted to get it painted and was quoted a high price so I went to the paint shop to price the paint & told the counter guy about the price of the new paint job and he said, you should paint it your self! he gave me a book on spray technics/ body work and that started me on a life time of fun&work. I fully recommend you try it! best of luck, Pat

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Old 10-14-2010, 06:10 PM   #14
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Re: Painting Advice

Here is what I've done and been using.

The first thing I laid paint on was the firewall on my 52. I was uneducated as far as paint goes and picked up a quart of Duplicolors primer, color and clear. (all $20 a can). As stated before nothing more than stir and shoot. To shoot I picked up a hvlp gun from Harbor Freight. Seems to be the recommended gun to get it you have to buy one from HF, and can be pretty cheap if you catch it while its on sale. Air to the gun was fed from a Craftsman 33gal air compressor. Paint came out nice for a first time laying paint. Though the paint was fine, I found out its "Old School" as someone told me on here because is lacquer. I was then pointed into the direction of what I should use, Urethane.

Did some research and came across summit racings line of paint (said to be relabeled kirker brand). So to start off I ordered a gallon of their Epoxy Primer and a gallon of their Epoxy Primer Catalyst which gets mixed with the primer 1:1 so it gets you 2 gallons. This time to spray I upgraded to a different gun. I came across TCPGlobal.com and bought their spray gun set for $80, also ordered a 3M respirator and goggles.

Paint went down very nice, and the gun (I used the 1.8 needle for the primer) worked great. I made my own paint booth outside. I bought a ezup tent, a bunch of plastic for the sides and it worked great, no complaints.

And you can't forget about sandpaper. The last time I went to carlisle a body shop vendor was there and I picked up a few rolls 180, 200 and 400 grit sandpaper, but I have ordered from TCPGlobal.com as well. I also bought a set of Kblock sanding blocks and to help with sanding I also picked up a Kobalt DA sander from lowes along with a bunch for 180grit 6" sanding discs. I wish I would have grabbed more of the 180 grit rolls when I was at carlisle because that seemed to be a good quality paper, hardly ever clogged on me. The stuff I got from TCPGlobal, their economy line, I feel I go through more paper because it seems to clog quicker. In the long run it would be cheaper to go with the more expensive option.

For filler I went with Evercoats Lite Weight body filler and for a skim coat to fill in any pin holes and such I used Evercoats Glaze-It.

I will be soon be laying down summits 2k high build primer which requires their activator and reducer.

Because the color is alot more tempermental, I'm not going to be the one laying down the color and clear. There is a local paint shop that I am going to have do that for me, as well as go over the work I have done to make sure it is smooth.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:39 PM   #15
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Re: Painting Advice

drummin89,you are the Man with a Plan! Stick with it and good luck keep us posted with a few pictures
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:30 PM   #16
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Re: Painting Advice

As far as really heavy building primers go the polyester based stuff such as slicksand are unbelivable. Sands like butter and is less prone to shrinking and can achive alot more build than a urethane primer. we use it to get all our cars lazer straight and then use a urethane primer to fill scratches and final prep, just remember as well as they work they must be treated in the same fasion as bodyfiller.

http://www.evercoat.com/productdetail.aspx?pid=28

This is a quick rundown of the order we do things at the restoration shop

-sandblast metal
-seal with 2 medeum wet coats epoxy and let cure 16 hrs at least
-sand with 180 followed by scotchbrite to remove all shine
-do filler work
-seal with 2 medeum wet coats epoxy and let cure 16 hrs at least
-sand with 180 followed by scotchbrite to remove all shine
-3 coats of slicksand let cure for one week(can be sanded in a few hours but letting it cure longer eliminates any risk of shrinkage, on 6 figure restorations there is no room for error)
-break and longboard with 180 till straight
-Seal with one coat of epoxy and let flash
-3 coats of 2k urethane highbuild
-block with 180-220-320-
-orbital 400-600
paint
-1 coat value shade sealer
-2 coats waterbourn basecoat
-3 coats premium appearence clear
-wetsand and polish

This is the process used on all of our museum and collector car restorations.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:48 AM   #17
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Re: Painting Advice

Foxhole and Drummin89 Thanks for the info. Great posts!!!
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:52 AM   #18
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Lightbulb Re: Painting Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by drummin89 View Post
Here is what I've done and been using.

The first thing I laid paint on was the firewall on my 52. I was uneducated as far as paint goes and picked up a quart of Duplicolors primer, color and clear. (all $20 a can). As stated before nothing more than stir and shoot. To shoot I picked up a hvlp gun from Harbor Freight. Seems to be the recommended gun to get it you have to buy one from HF, and can be pretty cheap if you catch it while its on sale. Air to the gun was fed from a Craftsman 33gal air compressor. Paint came out nice for a first time laying paint. Though the paint was fine, I found out its "Old School" as someone told me on here because is lacquer. I was then pointed into the direction of what I should use, Urethane.

Did some research and came across summit racings line of paint (said to be relabeled kirker brand). So to start off I ordered a gallon of their Epoxy Primer and a gallon of their Epoxy Primer Catalyst which gets mixed with the primer 1:1 so it gets you 2 gallons. This time to spray I upgraded to a different gun. I came across TCPGlobal.com and bought their spray gun set for $80, also ordered a 3M respirator and goggles.

Paint went down very nice, and the gun (I used the 1.8 needle for the primer) worked great. I made my own paint booth outside. I bought a ezup tent, a bunch of plastic for the sides and it worked great, no complaints.

And you can't forget about sandpaper. The last time I went to carlisle a body shop vendor was there and I picked up a few rolls 180, 200 and 400 grit sandpaper, but I have ordered from TCPGlobal.com as well. I also bought a set of Kblock sanding blocks and to help with sanding I also picked up a Kobalt DA sander from lowes along with a bunch for 180grit 6" sanding discs. I wish I would have grabbed more of the 180 grit rolls when I was at carlisle because that seemed to be a good quality paper, hardly ever clogged on me. The stuff I got from TCPGlobal, their economy line, I feel I go through more paper because it seems to clog quicker. In the long run it would be cheaper to go with the more expensive option.

For filler I went with Evercoats Lite Weight body filler and for a skim coat to fill in any pin holes and such I used Evercoats Glaze-It.

I will be soon be laying down summits 2k high build primer which requires their activator and reducer.

Because the color is alot more tempermental, I'm not going to be the one laying down the color and clear. There is a local paint shop that I am going to have do that for me, as well as go over the work I have done to make sure it is smooth.
Drummin,

Are you using the DA with the 33 gallon compressor or did you upgrade. Just Curious. I have a 30 gallon Kobalt (Lowes) and have refrained from a a DA because I am limited to 5-7 cfm. If you are how does it perform?

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2010, 08:27 AM   #19
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Re: Painting Advice

Yes I am running the DA with the 33gal compressor. Works well enough for me, compressor keeps up for a while but then I need to let it catch up.
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:59 AM   #20
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Re: Painting Advice

All I can say is WOW! You guys are awesome

Drummin89 and foxhole - Those steps are exactly what I was looking for! That run-down and all the links of actually seeing the products helped me a ton! thanks again

you guys are all awesome on this site! Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it!

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Old 10-15-2010, 10:37 AM   #21
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Re: Painting Advice

53 gmc, i bought a porter cable polisher sander variable speed electric. i really like it. i use it for rough work before primer. and for final polish and wax
then i have a Hutchens da i use for finish work. my little compresser works ok with it and i have even painted most of small cars with little compresser. works ok for a panel at a time.
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Old 10-15-2010, 03:04 PM   #22
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Re: Painting Advice

I ended up getting a gallon of Evercoat G2 featherfill polyester primer for free and it's great. Really thick, like spray on bondo. Sands easy and you can lay it on thick to fill sanding scratches without too much worry of runs. Still wondering if I need a urethane primer over it to seal the panels better but not sure. When it's time for color I'm leaning towards a base/ clear for durability but it does sound harder to work with than single stage paints. I've been working on bodywork on mine for exactly a year and I might be halfway done, maybe. It seems like just when you primed and blocked and primed and blocked you'll always find another low spot or group of sanding scratches. If it looks like crap with wet primer on it, paint will just make it look worse so get it straight as you can. Try to do what bodywork you can in the sun. Don't know how many times I thought I was good under shop lighting to carry the fender outside and immediately see a spot I missed.
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:11 AM   #23
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Re: Painting Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKGMC4 View Post
I ended up getting a gallon of Evercoat G2 featherfill polyester primer for free and it's great. Really thick, like spray on bondo. Sands easy and you can lay it on thick to fill sanding scratches without too much worry of runs. Still wondering if I need a urethane primer over it to seal the panels better but not sure. When it's time for color I'm leaning towards a base/ clear for durability but it does sound harder to work with than single stage paints. I've been working on bodywork on mine for exactly a year and I might be halfway done, maybe. It seems like just when you primed and blocked and primed and blocked you'll always find another low spot or group of sanding scratches. If it looks like crap with wet primer on it, paint will just make it look worse so get it straight as you can. Try to do what bodywork you can in the sun. Don't know how many times I thought I was good under shop lighting to carry the fender outside and immediately see a spot I missed.
while you have to finish with a finer grit, base clear is the only way to go on metallics. spraying the clear is no different than spraying single stage, in fact many manufacturers single stage and clear are the same chemical makeup. with the BC/CC you can stop and check that all your metallics look good and fix them if necessary prior to clear and then any clear problems can be wet sanded and polished out. Biggest mistake i see though is not letting base coat dry long enough. base coat will appear dry when it reaches the halfway point but is not really ready to be sealed until you cant smell the solvent anymore. We had problems way back because of poor booth flow and DuPont said " stick your nose against the panel, if you can smell paint it ain't dry".
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:30 AM   #24
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Re: Painting Advice

Not directly to the OP; but, OKGMC4, use a guide coat (contrasting, usually black) between your filler coats. Sprayed very light, dusted. (I use SEM brand rattle-can) It will show the low spots and sand scratches ect. Also, if not, use the largest (longest) sanding blocks possible (that the panel will allow) to block out your filler coats in a cross-sand pattern to insure the straightest panel.

As to compressors; my opinion has allways been the bigger the better. However, years-and-years ago I started out with a 30 some-odd gallon air-maker and it would run a DA; but only for a few minuites. Yes, it will work but it will be an excersize in patience!
Keep in mind too, for a HVLP gun to function properly most need 12-16 cfm.

Just my .02
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:40 AM   #25
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Re: Painting Advice

@ foxhole ~ what, you've rushed the clear too... ?
LOL, hell, if the base isn't shiney, hose the clear on.....

Easy trap isn't it, even for "experienced" painters. Fortunately Dupont recognizes this and has been ever-evolving the formula to narrow the window. Thankfully for guys like me....
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