e-zchassisswaps plan or should I not?

[jeremywrags]

Hi All,

I have seen a few threads on here about e-zchassisswaps but no pics or anyone commenting that they had done it.

Looking at the site and talking to ED it seems very promising. The only down side that I can pinpoint so far is the limitation on wheels & wheel sizes.

I know some say there are other things to consider like, rebuilding the front suspension, brake lines, mounts, bushings... which would make it cost prohibitive but my truck needs all that anyway so one way or another it's got to happen.

Local wrecking yard has an 82 Chevy shortwide that they say is in very nice shape. Complete rolling chassis with power steering pump, rear end and gas tank and I can pick it up for $400, if I add the cost of the kit + shipping total is around $1400.00. I already have a 4 link from speedway so that will take care of moving the rear end forward and I should be all set. Even if I rebuild the front end completely, the parts are not more than a few hundred $$ and I'd do it myself so no labor costs.

So what am I missing? seems like a no brainer but things that sound to good to be true usually are...

If I go mustang 2, these kits seems to start around $2500 for a decent kit so it seems like i'd be money ahead with this chassis swap?

I could go Camaro but then I have to buy a clip and chop the frame which I am not confident that I would do that great a job.

Anyone done one, can you tell me the pro and cons, would you do it again. How's it drive, do the front tires rub???

Thanks

[lynx5653]

most people on this site are against frame swaps. I myself have a 55 on a 86 chassis and it works for me. It was done by previous owner and not with ezchassis kit so it sits to high but at some point I will be usings the kit and lower it some.
I have seen a few on the newer chassis and don't see any problems .

Hope this helped and good luck with your build.
my 55

[mr48chev]

I'm one of those who doesn't favor chassis swaps just to be swapping chassis.

If you have a good 3100 short bed frame that is straight and not hacked up why would you want to stick some other frame under the truck?
Reason to= all the cool guys do it or so one things. Its much cheaper? 1500 for the kit plus ?? shipping and then 400 for the chassis plus another 500 to rebuild the suspension on the chassis plus finding wheels that fit the chassis and your fenders just right?

Proper reasons to do a chassis swap. No frame at all, you just bought a cab and fenders. Stock frame is absolute junk for one of many reasons. Frame is not a short bed or even long bed frame. Cab came off a big truck meaning a 4000 series but is a great cab.

It sounds like you have a good stock frame under the truck and you already have the 4 link, There are decent kits out there that don't cost 2500 but even if you get the 2500 kit everything on your truck fits and you don't have to fight anything. No fuss with getting the hood and nose to line up, no worries about the bed not sitting straight or making something else fit.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by jeremywrags

.....seems like a no brainer but things that sound to good to be true usually are...

^^^ This^^^

[yossarian19]

I'd do the EZ swap before spending money rebuilding the stock suspension.
The Industrial Chassis dakota-based IFS is pretty trick, too.
I've seen a '59 dropped onto a '96 4x4 frame and the track width was a little wide but it looked pretty good and worked for the man who owned it.
It depends what you want to use the truck for, what your skills and your budget are, etc.
I like the frame swap because it's IFS with a lot of aftermarket support, it's 1/2 ton or better rated (I haul junk in my '57) and parts are available. It also minimizes the amount of after market grab@$$ in your vehicle, which in my experience is a good thing.

[joedoh]

figure out what you want in the end, estimate your skills, and your tools/space.


do you want to drive it every day? once in a while? do you want over the counter replacement parts? not all MII are created equal, some use off the shelf parts available anywhere, some are custom made and replacement parts are only available from the manufacturer. frame swap trucks can usually get any part over the counter but then its the same ride as the donor, with all the same limitations. I drive all my donor trucks for a couple weeks shaking them down for problems or replacement needs and when I get the swap done, its amazing how it still sounds and rides just like the donor did. do you want to drive it this year? next year? before christmas? before retirement?

what is your skill set? can you weld? we arent talking spot welds or tacks to hold a muffler, we are talking quality structural welds that wont break. can you wire a truck? can you take a dissimilar pile of parts and make a homogeneous truck? have you ever tackled a project like this before? lots of guys will convince themselves they have the talents and determination to finish something like this but they underestimate how much life and other responsibilities get in the way and they end up with that project in the garage or yard for 2-5-10-20 years.

do you own a welder? levels and clamps and grinders and wire brushes? do you have the space to take a truck completely apart? two trucks completely apart? enough space left to walk all the way around the one you are working on, enough light to see what you are doing, not a single bulb in a one car garage, although some guys are successful in single bulb one car garages.


I admire guys who say "this is what I want" and work towards that goal but that admiration is easily eclipsed buy guys who FINISH the truck, and even more so by guys who recognize their limitations and BUY the truck they want. Those guys drive right away. what good is talking about how great your truck is GOING TO BE? in the end its just talk unless you have the drive and chutzpah to finish what you started.

I can be misunderstood when typing words on a screen, I did not type this out to discourage or offend, quite the opposite. I am trying to galvanize your position with points you may not have thought about yet.

[gigamanx]

You'll get both opinions as I asked very similar questions just under a year ago. I had just purchased a Chevy 3100 from Oklahoma and very excited to get it home. Now a year later, I feel I have some advice although I can't speak to what its like to finish a truck. JoeDoh has given sound advice that I now go back and re-read realizing he was right. Must feel good to have that crystal ball in the back of the shed haha. In fact, everyone including mr48Chev have been right on point with the issues I would run into over the next year with time, budget, parts, and problems.

Took a look at your build thread to try and frame out what you're looking for.

1. Figure out what you want. I noticed your build thread begins with you saying, you're not sure yet. Google, PInterest, go find pics of them all. Don't worry about how, just worry about the result. Then work backwards on how to accomplish that. I spent a couple of thousand on parts I didn't need just because I was excited and started before I had a plan

2. It looks like space is limited for you much like my garage. That's a lot of ladders! Take JoeDoh's comment into consideration when you need space to have two trucks blown apart. I had an S10 and the AD 3100 apart and it took every bit of space inside and outside a two car garage. I threw away most of the S10 just because I couldn't fit it anywhere. I sold the old chassis before I could even begin on the rest. Stepping over crap while trying to build is very frustrating.

3. Having a budget is nice, but keep it in perspective. In the grand scheme of a build, an IFS for $2500 that already gives you everything up front sounds like a godsend at this point in my build haha. Expect to pay anything from $5000 to $10,000. I think I'll be right around $10,000 on mine and that is with a home paint job.

4. Either direction you take is work and time. A LOT of work. If you keep your chassis and upgrade it, the work is simply different than if you do an EZ chassis swap with a donor truck. I kind of laugh at the EZ part, because nothing about fitting two trucks together is EZ except for the mounts and guess what the kit gives you. The mounts weren't particularly troublesome compared to engine, trans, wiring, core support, body work, interior work, truck bed install, gas tank, bagging if you do airbags....the list goes on.

[dsraven]

joedoh makes a lot of good points. but it would be good to know what you are working with.
if a frame swap is going to be your go to, you should really do a pro and con feasability study. are you doing it because you want a smoother ride, better brakes, power steering? something where parts are easy to get anywhere? or because your frame is toast? some other reason? remember a new frame won't change the other stuff like wind noise, heater, wipers seats etc
decide what you want to end up with. ask questions
are you doing a 4x4? are you thinking lifted 4x4 or a truck your wife can get into and want to go for a ride?
if 2wd are you thinking a slightly lowered truck, in the weeds, bagged or a standard height truck? the reason is because the lower you go the more tire interference you will get and also the axle centerline may be moved forward some so the wheel looks right in the fender opening. this could skew your donor wheelbase measurement accordingly.
will you be using the bed for more than looks? swaps always sacrifice the bed depth because the swapper frame is usually kicked up over the rear axle. the stock frame is pretty level but the truck sits higher becasue the springs keep the axle further away from the frame back there to compensate. the lower you want your truck to sit over the swapper frame the less bed height you will have. that is why low trucks and donor frame trucks have a bump in the box floor. stock frames have a C notch to allow for some axle movement

suggestions
do a track width comparison with stock wheels on the donor and the weight of the complete truck so you have a proper dimension. compare with your old truck and see how it looks for fender clearances. remember you need to allow room for wheels to turn to full lock with the suspension bottomed out, like over a speed bump or curb bump when leaving a parking lot. if you have to install wheel spacers or negative offset wheels then talk to a front end alignment guy because that changes a bunch of angles and the frame that previously drove well may be twitchy or wear out tires after doing a track width change with wheels or different tire sizes. google scrub radius and other steering angles for more info.
compare the frames of the two trucks and do a drawing with real measurements to see how your cab, rad support, box and front sheet metal is going to fit onto the new frame. will you have any box depth left? will your rad still fit? what about the engine fan clearance? does the frame fit between the running boards? what about cab mounts? you will see things like engine placement, trans hump in the floor, accelerator and brake pedal placement etc can become more work than first anticipated. if thinking you can just bolt a booster and some pedals under the dash consider strengthening the area first. will the donor steering column fit? will it fit past the exhaust manifolds? will the stock exhaust manifolds work with that scenario? what about height clearance under the hood? firewall clearance, throttle cable length-short cables with large work angles can be troublesome, column shift configurations? gas tank filler options? battery placement? inner fender mods for clearance over steering parts? frame mods ahead of engine for rad support and front bumper attachment? park brake mechanisms and connections etc
once you get that all figured out the look around for a good donor. try to keep away from anything that sustained a substantial hit because you could be doing a bunch of work only to find out after that the frame is bent or twisted. it makes sense to buy a complete truck because you get everything, or almost everything, that you need for a running driver. frame, driveline, wiring, computer, power window motors and switches, steering columns, seats, etc etc.
like joedoh says, you will need lots of room, for 2 dismantled trucks and all the related parts. take lots of pics of both while dismantling because you will need them for reference later. this is probably not gonna happen in a weekend. if you get a donor in good enough shape you may get a few bucks for used parts but you should hang onto a bunch of it until your frame and body swap are complete. nothing more frustrating than going to buy a part you just sold last week.
ensure you have the tools for the job, measuring tools, squares, wrenches, sockets, an air compressor, impact gun, welders, cut off tool and other air tools are nice to have, long and short prybars and line up bars, bottle jacks, floor jacks, engine hoist, drills and bits, trouble lights and/or battery operated magnetic trouble lights, creeper, lifting straps and/or chains, come along, disc grinders with zip discs, wire wheels, grinding discs, flap discs of different grits and sanding backers etc, acetylene torch is nice to have, chop saw is also a nice to have, a 4 ft level and a digital torpedo level (with a laser would be nice) to lay on top for precise measuring, at least 4 jack stands and lots of misc sized wood blocking, a modified set of jack stands with some stout threaded rod on the top is nice to have so you can bolt through a hole in the frame and use jam nuts to get your frame leveled up and at the proper rake angle, a bunch of scrap steel of different configurations is nice to have for blocking precisely and also for making supports or holding parts together. many sets of c clamp vice grips and well as some normal vice grips, a camera or a phone with a camera to document the dismantling process on both trucks, many boxes for the related parts. label each one as you go and don't overfill them. keep them seperated by new truck and old truck then by location of the parts. you're gonna need some friends at times and/or a few home made fixtures for your engine lift. getting the cab off is the biggest, then the box and front body clip. before you take the weight off the donor it maybe a good idea to block the donor suspension with links at all 4 corners, where the shocks are mounted is a good spot, so the suspension stays at the proper ride height it was designed for. then when you are all done the swap you can take the links out and adjust the springs to get the same height with the new body on top. that way your alignment will be easier to figure out. a production drawing of both frames would be an asset. check out gmupfitters if you go with an '88 on gm frame. try to get the donor on a level floor and do a rake angle check before you dismantle it. then you can reproduce that angle when you put it on stands later
once you get it figured out and you have the donor frame in the driveway, get out the pressure washer and clean it all up. next put it in the shop and ensure you have enough space all around it for working and manoevering stuff like cabs and engine lifts etc. check it for square by measuring from corner to corner (they should be the same dimensions) and for straight by marking the midpoint-side to side- of all the cross members and then using a stringline or laser-front to rear down the midpoint- to line them all up. also do a height check on the rear frame height and the front frame height to ensure both sides are the same so you can rule out a bent frame horn.next get the frame up on stands and level it up-side to side- and get it at the proper rake angle it was intended to use. make sure to block it well and keep in mind the difference it will make when you add or take away weight. you don't want any seesaw action later but you also don't want the stands right in your way when fabbing up body mounts. keep the tires handy for mock up.
after that it is all about getting the body mounted on the new frame. it is a good idea to measure the frame width and the body width and figure out how much the dimension will be from the body to the frame at given points, like the front cab mounts, then mark that on the body so you can tell with a quick measure if you are centered or not.
above all, take lots of pics and post them for us to see. ask lots of questions as well. if you feel like you are getting over your head do one job at a time and don't think about how big the whole job is. soon you will be done if you keep making forward progress.

or
modify your existing frame. your truck, your money. get a professional welder if you plan on a front clip swap. if you are gonna clip the front and c notch the rear you might as well build a new frame because you are only really using the middle couple of feet of the old frame.

just some thoughts.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by dsraven

just some thoughts.

Wow dsraven, this should be a post "so you want to build a truck.." All that spare time writing, just think of what you could have done on your truck

[dsraven]

http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/framespecs.html

not sure but I think the frames are similar up to 87? anybody?

[dsraven]

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...l_measurements

track width specs

[dsraven]

https://www.gmupfitter.com/files/med...uckCurrent.PDF

88-98 info from gmupfitters. scroll through for frame dimensions and drawings

[dsraven]

https://www.gmupfitter.com/files/med...eCC_071713.pdf


chevy colorado info from gm upfitters. dunno if it is relevant or not

[dsraven]

https://www.gmupfitter.com/files/med...LD_STTruck.pdf

gm S10 info from gm upfitters. I know there is a guy in Calgary that has done a couple and says they fit ok. dunno what they look like though or what the track width would be like. may be worth a look I guess

[dsraven]

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...hlight=sgtusmc

59 on 88 frame

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by dsraven

https://www.gmupfitter.com/files/med...LD_STTruck.pdf

gm S10 info from gm upfitters. I know there is a guy in Calgary that has done a couple and says they fit ok. dunno what they look like though or what the track width would be like. may be worth a look I guess

I did a 65 on an s10 chassis and just bought longer control arms. it was almost completely a non-issue because I usually replace the control arms anyway, but a lot of guys squawk about track width like its the end of the world as we know it.

IMG_9191 by Joe Doh, on Flickr