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Old 09-02-2010, 04:34 AM   #26
BHyatt
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Re: Make it handle

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Originally Posted by robnolimit View Post
OK, two guys drinkin on barstools. One barstool has thin legs that go straight down to the floor from under the seat, about 10' apart. The other barstool has thicker legs that angle out to a wider base on the floor, about 18". Now, as guys do, they start to agrue about important stuff, like big block vs small block, and soon the push each other. Who is heading into the sawdust and peanut shells? (thats the kind of place I like to hang out in) - on the wide stance barstool.

Obviously the guy with the 10 foot wide barstool will be more stable than one 18" wide. LOL!
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:50 AM   #27
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Re: Make it handle

right you are.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:56 AM   #28
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Re: Make it handle

So wide track is better than narrow, which of course makes sense. See, I told my wife there was a desirable side to being low and wide. Now I can prove it makes me handle better.

Got any theories for my exhaust gas concerns...
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:13 PM   #29
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Re: Make it handle

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Got any theories for my exhaust gas concerns...
the leaner the mixture the hotter the exhaust gas
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:22 PM   #30
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Re: Make it handle

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Who is heading into the sawdust and peanut shells? (thats the kind of place I like to hang out in) .
me 2 but the guy stuck paying the tab is the looser!!!...

good info thanx
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:39 PM   #31
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Re: Make it handle

Oldspowered67 makes agood point. And that is that everything has to work together. If the front and rear are not securely connected in the middle, its a lost battle. Boxing is the most common aproach, but this can become a mistake. Ladder style frames will ALWAYS flex. Yes, we can reduce the flex, but going all out and welding 100% us a mistake. If we know that it is going to flex, and you stop the rail from twisting, then it WILL eventually CRACK at the crossmembers. So here is what I recomend. MEASURE the inside height of your frame. It should be 5 3/4" or so. Have a steel shop bend up some C rails for you, 5 3/4' (or insert your rail height here) x 2 1/2" wide, by 6 feet long. Once you get these home, cut them to fit into your chassis. Leave about a 1" gap from each crossmember, and span as far forward and rearward as you can. If you are using a bottom mount trans crossmember, good, but be smart and weld the nuts in place before boxing. Fit your boxing C rails in the chassis about 1 1/2", so that you are also making the frame an inch wider, as well as boxing it. put a one inch long weld about every 4 inches, thats all. This will cover the straight middle section of the chassis. Crap, I forgot to tell you, MAKE SURE that you truck is blocked up amd measured to be SQUARE and LEVEL. Take your time, there's no turning back. Next, get about 40 feet of 1 1/2' x .120 wall tubing. Its time to make triangles. Triangles are strong, squares are week, look at the pyramids, still here. Starting at the front cab mounts, on the inside of the frame, fit a tube from the boxing plate diagonaly back to the crossmember on the other side. Fit the tube to the crossmember, not the frame rail. Repeat on the other side, and cut and notch to fit the first tube. This will make an X above the back of the trans. The tops of the tubes should be close to the top of the rails. From the back side of that crossmember, make a second X to reach back as far as you can. Some trucks will a extra crossmember in the middle, passing your X through this is better than making a third X. I try to get the rear of the second X to be inboard of the rear suspension mounts, since thats where all the acceleration load is. But the farther back the better. You can do this for a few hundred bucks, and you will feel the difference. And thats all I have to say about that. Have a great Labor Day Weekend. Cheers.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:17 PM   #32
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Re: Make it handle

I really like this kind of stuff. I have always wanted to do a truck for autocrossing eversince I did it in my old blue 65 while in college many years ago, just have never had the funds to do it the why I want to.

Rob - your new chassis under the silver F--- is awsome. I hope to see it in person sometime. Are you taking it to the Goodguys show at TMS in October?
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:45 PM   #33
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Re: Make it handle

Good Thread!!!
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Old 09-03-2010, 04:03 AM   #34
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Re: Make it handle

I am a little curious about getting my suburban to handle better. It's lowered now but I am wondering if anyone has used ridetech's rear airbar system or cpp's trailing arm system on a suburban before. If so, what were the gains and how was it done? I want to add a rear sway bar in the near future to get me by but this is planning for the long term. I don't have huge fabrication skills so something almost bolt on like the above mentioned systems would be a good start. Any opinions/ideas on making the tank a little better in the twistys?
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Old 09-03-2010, 04:31 AM   #35
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Re: Make it handle

N2TRUX, yes its a welder series kit, I was very pleased woth the quality and price, I would have liked to have it mount outboard of the frame rails but thre was too much stuff already out there to make it practical. Heres some pics of the exhaust routing.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:33 AM   #36
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Re: Make it handle

Yes, we will in Tx in october for the goodguys show. I will have the Bullit with us for the autocross. Nice job Oldspowered67, Very nice.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:45 PM   #37
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Re: Make it handle

i really like this setup and the exhaust routing.............[ATTACH]Name:  6772 exh pics 1.jpg
Views: 15541
Size:  50.5 KB[/ATTACH]
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:18 AM   #38
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Re: Make it handle

That exhaust through the frame idea seems the best ever for routing around the problem areas between the rails. Can anyone comment on the best way to beef up the frame to be just as strong as before? Not a good place to take any chances, but looks like it would be worth the effort.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:58 PM   #39
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Re: Make it handle

Use some 1" rings of 4" iron pipe to brace the hole.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:03 PM   #40
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Re: Make it handle

OCCA CHAMPIONIt's official. A truck, my truck was the over-all winner at this years OCCA Laborday cruise. Doug Renner, 69 camaro, ran a 40.81 for second, and Brett Campbell, 68 camaro conv. ran a 40.88 for third. But niether could catch the blistering 40.25 lap that I laid down late sunday morning. So it is true, you CAN make them handle.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:36 PM   #41
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Re: Make it handle

Congratulations on the win! What was better,winning overall or the vindication that you "did it your way" in an old truck ? That is a really inspirational achievement to guys who love their trucks and want them to handle. Thanks for proving it can be done. Do you have any more build tips or new insights you might be willing to share?
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:12 AM   #42
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Re: Make it handle

Congrats on making it happen. Its a big inspiration knowing that it is possible to get it done. I agree with 72hotrod, any more tips you would be willing to share would be much appreciated. I would love to see pictures of your truck and its current setup.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:01 AM   #43
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Re: Make it handle

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OCCA CHAMPIONIt's official. A truck, my truck was the over-all winner at this years OCCA Laborday cruise. Doug Renner, 69 camaro, ran a 40.81 for second, and Brett Campbell, 68 camaro conv. ran a 40.88 for third. But niether could catch the blistering 40.25 lap that I laid down late sunday morning. So it is true, you CAN make them handle.
To be accurate, please give everyone the '411' on what your truck consists of to pull this win off.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:19 PM   #44
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Re: Make it handle

Your chassis' are second to none..that chassis under the F-___ is awsome! Did you have the doors on it this time?
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:25 PM   #45
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Re: Make it handle

Wow! That's pretty impressive considering the competition. For those that don't know, Doug Renners 69 (DFresh) is a pretty serious contender.

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Old 09-07-2010, 12:18 PM   #46
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Re: Make it handle

Congrats on the win Rob!

So, how much would poly bushings help over the craptory rubber bushings? What is pro's and con's of rubber, poly, aluminum, etc. when it comes to handling vs. ride? I know you can't always have best of both worlds...

I'm not doing bags, I am going to try coilover setup, so I am OK with firm. I just don't want parts-breaking harsh ride.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:31 PM   #47
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Re: Make it handle

Interesting thread. I hope to make my truck handle much better then stock, but traction at the track will be one of my biggest issues. My motor should be making well over 500hp and I hope to run 12's or better.

For the front I've added tubular upper arms with 2.5" drop spindles and 1" drop springs. The rear has 4" drop springs and 1/2" drop plates and has an extra crossmember, the original leaf spring shock crossmember, and it has the coil spring crossmember. I have 4 new Doetsch shocks going on too. The trailing arms have been welded at the seams, about 1" every 1' or so and are mounted to the CPP crossmember that corrects the pinion angle for a 4" drop. I have almost 6' of boxing plates that I planned to add thru the center of the frame, in front of and behind both the trailing arm crossmember and the trans crossmember. Originally I was going to weld them, but decided to bolt them in with grade8 hardware so they can be removed if needed. I hadn't though about cross bracing them with tubing.

I plan to install a baffled fuel tank behind the rear axle. I mocked up my new LSx/200-4r drivetrain and found it to be farther forward then the sbc I pulled out. To correct this I've pulled the motor back out (finishing cam/springs upgrade) and purchased some plates that should place everything about 1/2" back of the sbc setup. My motor mounts offer a high and low mount position, and clear with enough in the high so I will also try the lower position to check for clearance.

I have been interested in a complete custom IFS with coil overs and rack and pinion steering at some point..and why I didn't by tubular lower arms. I want to replace everything (when my wallet recovers) that has to do with front suspension and steering. I have also planned to replace the rear coils with bags.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:01 PM   #48
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Re: Make it handle

WOW, well, thank you to everyone for the compliments. It feels great to know that we really have proved ourselves with this chassis. in the field of about 40 I'd say there were 24 serious competitors. We had put the word out about this event to other chassis/parts manufacturers, but none showed. The top three were a full second ahead of the next group in the field. I'll have videos up later today, or you can check them on facebook @ no limit engineering. Thanks again.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #49
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Re: Make it handle

Let me answer a few. Karl, yes we will be in tX, come by and see us, & go for a ride in the Bullit. SBTork, if your not going drasticaly low, use a Ridetech kit on the stock arms, upgrade to urathane bushings, pay for the good shocks, and add a rear sway bar. Basemodel 67, I am not much of a fan of alum., or del-alum. bushings on the street. Urathane is a better choice. TO ALL USING URATHANE Drill the outer sleave and install your own grease zerk fittings in EACH bushing. Use poly-graphite grease. We dont want them to flex, but we do want them to rotate easily. CAUTIONThe inner steel sleave of the bushing shoud be as long as the urathane parts. When the bolt is tight, it should torque up onto the inner sleave, NOT crush the urathane bushing sides. MANY MANUFACTURERS dO NOT GET THIS. it is up to you to check. If there not right, don't use them. 68GMCustom, cross bracing is as important, or more so, than boxing. Keep that in mind. Urathane cab/core support mounts are also a plus, and no harsher than the stock rubber. A freind of mine made aluminum cab mounts for his C-10 (drag car) and it does leave better, but it's a bit noisy on the street. If you already are invested in the stock IFS, maybe the 'right' set of tubular lowers is a good choice. Problem is, the 'right' set havent been made yet. Perhaps you guys can convince Nate to build some with the lower ball joint moved forward 1/2", and move the shock out 3/4" to get more shock feel. Or, put two shock mount locations on them. Nate?
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:19 PM   #50
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Re: Make it handle

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Originally Posted by robnolimit View Post
Let me answer a few. Karl, yes we will be in tX, come by and see us, & go for a ride in the Bullit. SBTork, if your not going drasticaly low, use a Ridetech kit on the stock arms, upgrade to urathane bushings, pay for the good shocks, and add a rear sway bar. Basemodel 67, I am not much of a fan of alum., or del-alum. bushings on the street. Urathane is a better choice. TO ALL USING URATHANE Drill the outer sleave and install your own grease zerk fittings in EACH bushing. Use poly-graphite grease. We dont want them to flex, but we do want them to rotate easily. CAUTIONThe inner steel sleave of the bushing shoud be as long as the urathane parts. When the bolt is tight, it should torque up onto the inner sleave, NOT crush the urathane bushing sides. MANY MANUFACTURERS dO NOT GET THIS. it is up to you to check. If there not right, don't use them. 68GMCustom, cross bracing is as important, or more so, than boxing. Keep that in mind. Urathane cab/core support mounts are also a plus, and no harsher than the stock rubber. A freind of mine made aluminum cab mounts for his C-10 (drag car) and it does leave better, but it's a bit noisy on the street. If you already are invested in the stock IFS, maybe the 'right' set of tubular lowers is a good choice. Problem is, the 'right' set havent been made yet. Perhaps you guys can convince Nate to build some with the lower ball joint moved forward 1/2", and move the shock out 3/4" to get more shock feel. Or, put two shock mount locations on them. Nate?
We could always make some adjustments to the arms if desired.... just have to ask.

The reason I don't already do so on a production level, is that the geometry on our Dropmember already corrects this problem.

We are also finishing up the development of a new Dropmember system... "Dropmember Touring Edition". It's name will reflect its focus. I am pretty much done with all my development for the frame-laying systems and moving on to the stuff that really interests me... performance! Maybe we will have to chase eachother around the track in the not so distant future.

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