86 Silverado Father and Son project

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

Mike

You'll need the following:

Speedometer Driven Gear (43)
Speedometer Housing & Support Bracket (44)
Speedometer Housing O-Ring (42)
http://www.tcsproducts.com/images/st..._schematic.pdf

All three items can be sourced from JY. The only catch is get a correct driven gear that gets speedometer cable to turn at 1000 tire revs/mile - this is straight forward and several handy references are availlable. The following links are will provide you with a good reference information:

Look for part # 54 (P)

http://www.partshp.com/speedometer_gears.htm
and
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/speedo.htm

VSS
I think I covered this subject extensively in prior posting.

Attached photos capture my setup - I run this my conversion. That yellow module is a JTR 2000PPM TBI VSS bolted to speedometer housing and speedometer cable is bolted into VSS output. Photos were taken at an awkward angle - sorry.


//RF

RF,
I was about to order that inline vss like yours when I looked at links you posted about the speedo gears. I know you have covered this before about the the rear end gear ratio and tire size need to be known before you know which gear drive to put in the tranny. So my question, why not just change the speedo from a later model truck? they are readily available at the pull-a-part. The car vss can send info to the ecm and there should be a wire that sends info to the speedo right? It seems like you might even be able to reprogram the eprom to cover tire size? I really don't know what the truck gear ratio is or what size tire we are going with yet. I just don't want to order a bunch of new parts and then go with larger tires and find out the speedo is wrong. Thanks for your help,

Mike

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

RF,
I was about to order that inline vss like yours when I looked at links you posted about the speedo gears. I know you have covered this before about the the rear end gear ratio and tire size need to be known before you know which gear drive to put in the tranny. So my question, why not just change the speedo from a later model truck? they are readily available at the pull-a-part. The car vss can send info to the ecm and there should be a wire that sends info to the speedo right? It seems like you might even be able to reprogram the eprom to cover tire size? I really don't know what the truck gear ratio is or what size tire we are going with yet. I just don't want to order a bunch of new parts and then go with larger tires and find out the speedo is wrong. Thanks for your help,

Mike

Mike

That may sound as a good approach, but have you looked at what is involved at swapping in 87-90+ dash into 86 truck? Since I have not looked at all details I'll have to research this first before lunching into this adventure.

On the surface, the car VSS can feed its output into DRAC module used in later model trucks (90-91) to provide 2000ppm signal to ECM. DRAC module can be reconfigured to reflect your truck's tire size, rear end gear ratio. But there could be potentially be wiring harness differences (or not) between fully electronic instrument clusters (IC) and earlier IC that used spedo cable to drive odometer and speedometer. This is the area that I have zero first hand experience in. I would start by locating FSM for later year trucks and compare to '86.

Start another thread.... or search, since IFRC there were several documented instrument cluster swaps of this nature.

//RF

[mcbassin]

Had a little time this evening to work on the truck since it rained all weekend. I unhooked the temporary fuel/pump and supply then started routing all the wires inside the cab. I have a few items I wonder if we need to leave on the truck or if we can remove. Take a look at the pics and tell me what these items are and if we need them? The first pic is of a solenoid looking device that is mounted on the left side of the firewall just right of the a.c. the second pic is a box under the dash with a connector. If this was removed it would make a nice place to mount the ecm. In the last pic it shows the original plug that goes into the alternator. I'm wondering if I can remove it or does it need to be tied into the newer style plug?

[cableguy0]

the alternator just tie into the new plug. it should show which wires are which in the diagrams u got. not 100% sure what the selenoid looking deal is cant find a clear pic. that box under the dash is a computer probably for the old computer controlled quadrajet carb. it wont be needed anymore

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

the alternator just tie into the new plug. it should show which wires are which in the diagrams u got. not 100% sure what the selenoid looking deal is cant find a clear pic. that box under the dash is a computer probably for the old computer controlled quadrajet carb. it wont be needed anymore

Cableguy,
I looked at this detail on the diagram. The only thing that is throwing me is the size of the red wire and lack of a red wire on the newer alt. I think that the big red one was hooked up on the big post at the starter. I can just clip the connector and tie into the buss on the firewall?

I'm pretty weak in the wiring area. Even though I have a diagram....I can't really read them correctly. It just kinda gives me a color coded road map if you know what I mean. thanks,
mike

[rfmaster]

Mike

Good progress despite rainy weather - I spent better part of weekend and today battling a flu.

Photo #1 - I am not sure what that vacuum module is. I am guessing on this one, but it was used to monitor vacuum levels for cruise control system.

Photo #2 - looks like a cruse control module. It is a guess on my part.

Photo #3 - CS series Delco-Remy alternator. You have couple of options here. Since you have two wires going into the plug you have a self excited unit and only 'L" and 'I' terminal are connected to wire harness. You can get a replacement pig tail from most auto parts stores or cut the one that you have and wire it into existing harness. Only 'L' light circuit is required:




For more information regarding CS alternators look here:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/cs130_sbpage1.htm

It is a commercial site, but they provide good information. Or you can simply purchase an adapter harness for about $18 D1-W1201


//RF

[cableguy0]

im thinking backwards here. you dont need your original wires anymore. the new wires in the harness will make it work so long as the wires that need battery power get it. both vehicles should have a junction block on the firewall with full time battery power.

[85gmcguy]

In photo #1- that's a vac operated switch to lock up the torque converter in the old transmission. Shouldn't need it with an electronically controlled trans.

[mcbassin]

Update:
I finally got everything to install the fuel lines and pump. Apparently, I screwed up and got a bad or the wrong type pump from ebay recommended in an earlier post. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-F...d=p3911.c0.m14 It was around $50 and the low pressure design. I can't make it prime or have it installed backwards. I should have just ponied up the extra cash for a Walbro or equivelent. I tried for about 2 hours to make it pump and can't. any suggestions? Do the higher volume/pressure unit self prime?
It will run as long as I squirt gas in the t/b.

I still have to tidy the engine compartment and under the dash as well as add the ses light, vss gear assy., and the park neutral switch. I know I am as slow as they come. I just can't put more than an hour here 2 hours there into it at a time. Pics to come.

[cableguy0]

that pump is designed to work with an in tank lift pump to get the fuel to it. that pump puts out around 50psi. the frame rail mounted pumps in those fords are the high pressure pump or boost pump. the in tank pump is the low pressure lift pump

[mcbassin]

I had to order a new fuel pump here: http://www.howellefi.com/customer/se...ubstring=FP257

I am wanting to remove all "unecessary" emission crap from this truck. What if any of these need to be hooked up for the computer and engine to run properly?

Wrong fuel pump installed:

Emission crap?

[rfmaster]

Photo 26

CCP - got keep that - it does not affect performance and allows gas fumes accumulating in gas tanks to be burned in TB.

Photo 28

Driver side AIR injection pipe - disconnect at exhaust manifold and plug.

Photo 25

AIR diverter valve (ECM controlled) and AIR injection check valve (passenger side). Both can be removed (plug vacuum line & leave harness connector unplugged) , but keep them just in case if future compliance may be required. Same goes for the AIR pump, but this may require re-doing serpentine belt system.

//RF

[mcbassin]

Made pretty good progress today. Got the new fuel pump installed and that engine will start up on it's own everytime now. seems to actually run pretty good. Had a minor power steering return line leak. Still need to get all the wires routed where they will go.

Originally Posted by rfmaster

Photo 26

CCP - got keep that - it does not affect performance and allows gas fumes accumulating in gas tanks to be burned in TB.

Photo 28

Driver side AIR injection pipe - disconnect at exhaust manifold and plug.

Photo 25

AIR diverter valve (ECM controlled) and AIR injection check valve (passenger side). Both can be removed (plug vacuum line & leave harness connector unplugged) , but keep them just in case if future compliance may be required. Same goes for the AIR pump, but this may require re-doing serpentine belt system.

//RF

Thanks RF,
I already made some plugs for the exhaust manifolds. The CCP your talking about has about 4 or 5 lines coming out of it? I'm not sure where all of them go on the throttle body. Also, do you know if there is a drop in pulley to replace that air pump? Another problem I am having, I can't make the SES light work....I pulled a small lamp assy. from the donor car to use until I find a suitable replacement. I have tried hooking it up to the ecm and ground. I have yet to make it light up. I thought it would come on when you turn the key to the on position? Thanks again,

Mike

[cableguy0]

the light should light up just getting key on. have u checked to make sure your getting communication with the ecm by plugging in a scanner? glad the fuel pump worked out for ya.the charcoal canister on the driver side isnt hurting anything. the fumes from the gas tank are collected there and it stops the fuel smell and fumes accumulating under the hood.if you already have it unhooked dont worry about it. its not gonna send anything to the throttle body because that looks like the original canister to the truck?? as stated just yank the air injection stuff

[mcbassin]

Cableguy,
I don't have a scanner yet. I need to buy one still. And no, I don't know if the ecm is sending a signal to the SES light. I think the ECM is doing something because the injectors get their signal from the ECM right?

[cableguy0]

yea. if its running the ecm is definately working. ignition and fuel all controlled by ecm. its reading the sensors or it would be running bad. are you using the brown and white wire to get the ses light signal? pin A5 on the diagram i sent

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by cableguy0

yea. if its running the ecm is definately working. ignition and fuel all controlled by ecm. its reading the sensors or it would be running bad. are you using the brown and white wire to get the ses light signal? pin A5 on the diagram i sent

Yes, I am pretty sure I am using A5. It should show 12v when it sending a signal correct?

[cableguy0]

I dont know if it actually sends a full 12 volts to the bulb. i cant find the voltage specs anywhere. it could very well be less than 12 volts being sent to light the bulb but i dont know for sure. the light should get lit at key on and for a few seconds after initial start up

[rfmaster]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

Yes, I am pretty sure I am using A5. It should show 12v when it sending a signal correct?

A5 line is used for SES circuit. SES light bulb has one lead connected to +12 volts (ignition on) and the other lead connected to pin A5 of the ECM. ECM pulls pin A5 low to turn on the light bulb. Make sure that light bulb does not draw excessive current ( <50 mA).

//RF

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by rfmaster

A5 line is used for SES circuit. SES light bulb has one lead connected to +12 volts (ignition on) and the other lead connected to pin A5 of the ECM. ECM pulls pin A5 low to turn on the light bulb. Make sure that light bulb does not draw excessive current ( <50 mA).

//RF

DUH? Am I to understand the ECM is making the ground and not actually powering the light? Shows how much I paid attention to all I have read about this retrofit.

I know you recommend a new relayed circuit for the ignition on power like we discussed before.....but for now I am gonna get the truck driveable running direct to the fuse box. With that said, what amp inline fuse does the ecm need?

[rfmaster]

10 Amp is what factory used for C3 ECM

//RF

[mcbassin]

Update:
I know this is has been a slow swap out but I just don't have the time dedicate that many other folks do on their builds....We made good progress today. Finished cleaning the wiring up under the hood, removed most of emission crap, (still don't know what to do with the smog pump?) then hooked up all the hoses and installed the fan shroud. Found out the fan is hitting on the bottom? I don't know if I should cut the lower area where its hitting or use a different fan or what? I would have thought this fan would work but maybe it's bigger. I will try the old fan before cutting the shroud. Next, I moved inside the truck to finish the wiring in there. I found that I only know where 2 of the wires go to the ALDL connector. I'm not too sure (look at pic below). I stuck the car breather on there so we could drive it, but the game came on so we quit for the day. I think I will try to find a dress up kit for it. I even got the kid to wrench on it a little today. Here are the pics:

[cableguy0]

not 100%sure but i think a regular chrome air cleaner for a carb will fit on that throttle body. theres a delete pulley available for the smog pump. go look at the belt routing sticker on the car it might have 2 routings one with and one without smog pump. i know the serpentine setup i used on my old tow truck didnt have a smog pump nor a pulley and it came off a 92 astro van. I'm pretty sure you can just pull the pump and get a shorter belt

[rfmaster]

Mike


Good progress - the last little details will take greatest amount of time solve.

Air cleaner
You have B-body square box air cleaner assembly which should do just fine. You can use plastic rectangular rain gutter to 4" ducting adapter - HD sourced and cheap. You do not want to use standard carb flange air cleaner assembly because of the location notch which may damage injector wiring.
Alternatively, you can use K & N 57-3026 cold air kit - I used this kit in my conversion.

ALDL connector.

Pin Function
A | Ground
B | Diagnostic mode terminal
C | AIR (air injection solenoid - not used in your case)
D | Service Engine soon lamp (optional circuit tied to SES light on the ECM side)
E | Serial data - used ALDL communications (must have)
F | TCC (if used)
G | Fuel pump enabled - used to supply +12 volt to prime fuel system
H | ABS - n/c (not used i your case)
M | serial data - special tools


//RF

[neto]

Man I just read this whole thread. What great help from rfmaster and cableguy0. I hope to be doing same swap but onto a 66. Thanks for all the information.