Towing C10..... what do I need ?

[Warrens69GMC]

consider this truck-
https://memphis.craigslist.org/cto/5948874730.html

[nitram]

My 87 tbi 350 with 3.42 gears and 31" rear tires pulls my 86 930 just fine. Trailer brakes are a must...

[Matt Man]

You can pull a lot of weight with not much power but stopping and handling is something that a lot of people overlook. These trucks are great, but the brakes...not so much. Remember it is 40 year old technology so make sure the trailer has brakes.

[Alex V.]

Lawd, I hope those numbers will pull your 5,500 lbs.! A stock C20 350/TH400 would've handled it fine.

Not a car, but it weighs 6,500 lbs. and pulls like a skyscraper:


This load weighed over 9K... towed it 500 mi. with no trailer brakes:


3/4 ton 2WD International:


Others that I don't have pics of include:
FIL's 1500HD (40 miles on his 18' car trailer - 7,500 lb. total?)
'73 K10 on a heavy 18' equipment trailer - 100 miles, somewhere over 8,000 lb.?
'03 Beetle TDI on that same trailer - 40 miles, around 6,500 lb.
'68 427 Corvette on dad's 16 ft. car trailer - 100 mi., 5,500 lb.

[Keith Seymore]

This is a repost, but this rig went from Detroit to Phoenix with no issues. (Car is 3600 lbs and the trailer is about 1000 lbs).

4 drum brakes off a '55 Chevy on the trailer, surge activated.

Originally Posted by Matt Man

These trucks are great, but the brakes...not so much. Remember it is 40 year old technology

I dunno; by the time you get into the '81-'87 timeframe you've got power brakes available with disc on the front and drums on the rear. The technology doesn't change much from that point.

The later model squarebodies are basically a modern truck wrapped in vintage sheet metal.

K

[MalibuSSwagon]

Stock 2000 5.3L, SM465, 2.73 gears. Front 1.25 brakes, LD drum rears, with the 8/1 HD 56" leafs. It did the job. No trailer brakes either. Stopping was not an issue.

The biggest issue was I hooked the straps to the frame behind the front wheels. This allowed the suspension to be unloaded in the front and bounce the truck via a lever action on the trailer tongue. There was no good way to tie down the frame horns on that car. You'd feel that on a 3/4 ton truck too.

This was last winter, I have the truck torn down right now for a trailing arm conversion. I figured out that no matter how much spring, gear, tire, power, I threw at the truck, I'm still limited by the wheelbase of the rig. I have a 454 Suburban for towing now, huge improvement. I can haul other trucks now.

[68post]

I'd use a C20 as a minimum, or a C30, and with an 4L80E. Bigger/better ; brakes, radiator, springs, frame, 8 lugs, and lower gearing - all built-in from the go.

[daddyjeep]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Been a long time since I posted on this site. Just want to give you guys a update on what I have did.
I have built a 5.3 383ci motor that produces some awesome power.
I have a basic 4 inch stroker crank/Rods
Mahle pistons (3.902 bore)
212/218 558/562 On a 115 LSA
Stock truck intake
36 lb injectors
317 truck Heads untouched besides valvesprings
morel lifters and a comp timing chain
Ls6 oil pump
Ebay throttle body

And my results...... 455 hp/485 ft lbs
Torque production exceeded 450 ft lbs from 3200 to 5300 rpm!!
Hope it gets the job done.

Now I need some motivation!! Lets see some more square bodies towing cars

Sounds like an awesome engine. I don't have any pics of mine towing yet so you will have to use your imagination.

This...

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Plus this...

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Plus this...

[IMG][/IMG]

That is the best I can do right now. Hopefully within a couple months all three can be put together and I can take both of my toys out to do what they were built for.

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Originally Posted by 68post

I'd use a C20 as a minimum, or a C30, and with an 4L80E. Bigger/better ; brakes, radiator, springs, frame, 8 lugs, and lower gearing - all built-in from the go.

There is only a couple of differences between the 3/4 and 1 ton. The biggest difference was name plate for registration purposes.

The spindles, calipers, and pads were different. Although ever so slightly bigger. 1 tons never had a th350 the 3/4 tons did, and on occasion the SF 14 bolt which is kind of rare.

Only 454's, and diesels got the huge radiator. That is a nice touch if your going for the max.

My camper special was rated at 10,000 pounds of towing, and you had to get a dually to get to 11,500. There are few packages that moved it up or down.

My dead 350 in my C20 with 4.11 gears, and 32 inch AT tires never got more then normal warm towing my cousin's T-Bird. The car was full of stuff, and the trailer was more of a HD model. My guess was 8000-8500 pounds total. For the guys in the LA area I brought it over Kellogg hill, and had no issues with stopping at the bottom. While not a long hill the grade is decent.

Either way if it were me I would get a 3/4 ton, add full bolt ons, and a 4L80E. Then depending on your style either trim the height with a drop or put on some 33's for the right look.

[Tusky]

Man I hate the fact I can't just simply copy and paste a picture of my Camaro. Car is no trailer queen but I'm not go beg/ask someone else to borrow they truck when I need to pull my car to a track or dyno that's miles away from home.

[Tusky]

Alex V.... when you say a stock 350 can tow it my load.... exactly what hp rating 350 You talking about? They all a lil different. Nothing wrong with the classic small block for sure but it's hard to beat these LS motors now days.

Hell I can get you a 6.0 motor with headers , tune and a true dual exhaust system. Hot rod magazine did those 3 simple mods. The motor made 410 horse and 440 ft lbs at the crank.

[D13]

I towed many a thing with my 250 powered trucks, and my 4.3 powered 1990. Key is to not be in a hurry, properly balance the load, and realize that stopping is the limiting factor.
I will confess that my 99 extended cab could have used 4wd. It would get stuck in wet grass. But that 5.3 would pull its 5200# self and 7000# trailer and truck with no issues.

[Tusky]

So who makes the a solid upgrade on the brake situation? Will aftermarket sway bars help any ?

[daddyjeep]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Man I hate the fact I can't just simply copy and paste a picture of my Camaro. Car is no trailer queen but I'm not go beg/ask someone else to borrow they truck when I need to pull my car to a track or dyno that's miles away from home.

I use photobucket for all of my forum pictures. It is pretty simple to just open the picture in photobucket click copy in the (IMG) box and paste in the forum.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Hell I can get you a 6.0 motor with headers , tune and a true dual exhaust system. Hot rod magazine did those 3 simple mods. The motor made 410 horse and 440 ft lbs at the crank.

I'm not knocking your choice and love building engines, but I have to ask: what did this stroker 5.3 end up costing? It seems a bone stock 6.0/6.2 with a cam would make the same power as well as being about the same size displacement wise for less money. Not being an LS guy yet, maybe I'm missing something?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Tusky

So who makes the a solid upgrade on the brake situation? Will aftermarket sway bars help any ?

The brake are great, they work better then the stockers on 88-98's. Took me 10yrs to make my 98 brake like my stock 78.

[Alex V.]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Alex V.... when you say a stock 350 can tow it my load.... exactly what hp rating 350 You talking about? They all a lil different. Nothing wrong with the classic small block for sure but it's hard to beat these LS motors now days.

Hell I can get you a 6.0 motor with headers , tune and a true dual exhaust system. Hot rod magazine did those 3 simple mods. The motor made 410 horse and 440 ft lbs at the crank.

I was picturing a 185 horse? 4 bbl. that would've come in a mid 80's 20/30 series truck. The LS engines can certainly put out some power but it doesn't take 400 horsepower to tow 5,000 lbs. reliably at highway speeds.

[Tusky]

Tom.... I got less than 4 grand in the motor. Let me guide you on how to pull it off.

I traded a nitrous bottle for a bare block.
The Heads I picked got 150 dollars off Facebook.
The rotating assembly came from a scoggin dickey. 2100 bucks
The timing chain (80 dollars)can be picked up new from ws6store website. Fast shipping they have.
Pushrods came from Brian Tooley Racing. 100 bucks brand new. Brian is the man... very nice guy that knows LS motors.
He also hooked me up on the valvesprings for 140 dollars.
Trunion upgrade was 115 dollars also from Tooley.
Lifters was 140 bucks
The injectors is used.... I paid 125 dollars for them off ls1tech.
Throttle body is off eBay for 150 dollars.
I hunted a intake down at pull a part got 75 dollars.
As far as gaskets/bolts I basically got them free from helping friends doing their cam swaps etc....
On the cam I picked it up from Hubbard Racing for 300 dollars.
Right place.... Right time you can do it too. Just helps to know great people and have sources.
If I missed anything let me know....

If you can get a 6.0 for a great deal I say snatch it up. They pop up all the time with spun bearings on Facebook for around 500 dollars or so. I now have a co worker begging me out the motor LOL....

[Tusky]

Forgot about the oil pump.... it's just a basic oil pump from the ws6store. 100 dollars.

Tom when you need to know something about LS motors I'll be here. I deal with them all the time. Now hopefully I can muster a 10 sec quarter mile pass all motor with my 6 Speed. Plan on dumping the clutch at 6000 right off the trailer! Time will tell.

[Tusky]

Alex.... with 185 horses how is really towing that camper? Do you go 55mph or faster? The Speed limit here is 55 to 70 mph here depending on the highway.... I don't want to be the slowest thing on the road just because I'm pulling my Z28 to the track or whatever.
I don't know the weight of a car trailer that's 18ft long but my car is roughly 3200 lbs give or take without me being in the seat. Also what rear gear you have in your pick up?

[Alex V.]

Sorry, but I didn't say 185 HP would tow my 31' camper very well - it weighs 6,500 lbs. before cargo and catches a LOT of air behind an open-bed truck. It gave my 454 a hard way to go on the 100-mile trip home and would have been running no more than 50-55 with a healthy small block truck. But your 5,500 lbs. of Z28 and trailer (open, right?) is a completely different story - I know because, as stated above, I've done it. Towing through the rockies you'll be in the slow lane, but you'd keep up with traffic on those 55-70 MPH roads in all but the most challenging terrain.

The 230 HP 454 is notably stronger than its counterpart 350, but in the same right the 454 will handily drag the combination you describe down the highway at 70+ and get around 11 MPG. And all these figures are based on trucks with TH400's or 4 speed manuals and 3.73 or 4.10 gears. And spinning 2,900 RPM at 65 doesn't hurt them, supported by the fact that one of the trucks I use as an example (454) has 124,000 mi. and is showing no signs of excessive wear, and the other ('86 K20 C6P w/350) has 361,000 no-rebuild miles.

Also, I've ridden thousands of miles with dad in a '67 Suburban (now mine) towing Corvettes cross country on a 16' open trailer with a 327, NP435, and 3.73 gears. Ain't saying it was all done at 75 miles an hour or getting 18 MPG, but it was done nonetheless.

Incidentally, what loads have you towed with a near-stock pre-'88 Chevy?

[Desert1957]

These trucks will tow almost anything
5.7 , 400 turbo , 3.42 gears

For your safety and every other person on the road, DO NOT tow cars without a functioning brake controller and WORKING trailer brakes. Its not about pulling it as much as a controlled panic stop if needed.

[MalibuSSwagon]

Figure 1k to 1500 for the open trailer. Maybe less. I believe I recall crossing the scales at the scrap yard with my C10 and empty 16ft car trailer, I was at 4500lbs. And putting 3200 on that was no big deal, even before the HD springs and with the old worn out 305. But experience trumps all. Try hooking up the trailer and putting your car on it and drive around the block. See how she handles it. Use a receiver hitch! And 10k break strength straps are cheap at HF. Never let me down. But use 4, one at each corner. So if one gets loose, you don't lose your car.

[Tusky]

Yes Alex... open trailer. My brother has a stock 305 with a turbo 350 transmission ( 86 model short wheel base. I towed the car around town just to see how it would do... I felt the load big time honestly but his 305 is worn out with a edelbrock carb and flowmaster muffler. Not sure exactly what rear gear is in the truck.

[Alex V.]

Probably very fast compared to the trucks I'm referring to - high 2.00's or low 3.00's. There is a world of difference between a stock/tired 305 with high gears and a healthy (albeit stock) 4 bbl. 350 that's geared for pulling. I read a road test from the early 80's that pitted two shortbed K10's against each other in acceleration, towing, fuel mileage, etc. - one with the then-new Vortec TBI 4.3 and one with a carbureted 305. They traded off on which one had the better result in said test, but were never very far apart - that is to say the 305 is no powerhouse and no comparison to the powerplants they put in the trucks designed for real towing - the 20 and 30 series. If you've never been in a pre-'88, >8,000 GVW truck pulling a couple tons or more (even just as a passenger) you should take the opportunity if you ever get it - they can't be judged by their numbers alone.