Starting a new build...

[gearhead2069]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I can see that there is a lot of knowledge to be sought here. So, I decided I'm going to take advantage of it with my next build.

I am going to start a 53 5 window 3100. I want to make it a daily driver/sleeper pickup with modern drivetrain and suspension. I have been looking into chassis modifications/swaps and have decided that I'd like best to keep the original chassis but install a better suspension. I have been doing some research and have come across the Art Morrison Truck Front & Rear Suspension Kits (page 44- http://www.artmorrison.com/2006cat/2014catalog.pdf ). I think if functional, this would be a very cool thing to do just because I could keep the original chassis.

I was wanting to get a few opinions on the matter. Any first hand experience with these kits?

Thank y'all for your time.

[FarmerSid]

I think you would be extremely happy with Art Morrison components. Probably a little pricey for most. I like the fact that you want to use the original frame.

[gearhead2069]

Thank you for the reply.

My plan is to go with an LS crate engine. Do you think with a bit of reinforcement the stock chassis will be able to handle the added torque? Apparently this is a big concern with some people. I was wondering if this should be a real concern.

[FarmerSid]

I think you will need to box the frame quite a bit if not completely. Your talking about 3 times the power if not more. There's tons of threads on here that have LS installs. Check some of them out and see what they did to their frames. I'm fully boxing mine and I'm installing a LT1 with about 280 HP.

[mr48chev]

I'd think it might be more than wise to box the frame but that might be a real good question to pose to the Morrison tech folks when you talk them about the suspension. I haven't bought anything from them but have talked to their guys in their booths and displays at car shows here in the PNW a few times and they are pretty knowledgeable and all that work there that I have met are serious car and truck folks themselves.

[55dude]

morrison builds quality stuff and it's big dollar stuff! 10K for a chassis is crazy but it's your money!

[gag1025]

You would be better off purchasing a front IFS kit from Scott's Hot Rods. They have both weld on and bolt on kits for far less money. That way you get to keep your '53 frame. I installed a bolt on kit and with most bolt on kit designs boxing is unnecessary. My 350 has over 300 horses and there has never been a problem. I Do plan on adding front and rear torsion bars for stability. Since I am not interested in drag racing and have no need to hook up the rear wheels, I decide not to use a 4 link rear suspension system.

[gearhead2069]

Well, the 53 fell through so instead I bought a 51. I am pretty happy with the find! The cab is SOLID. Haven't had an opportunity to take a whole lot of pictures yet so I'll have to reserve that for my next day off. I was able to snap one on the ride home and one just as I was able to get things unloaded.



The ride home... Truck in a box. I guess the good thing is that he did all the hard work in pulling it apart for me!



First project is suspension. I'm pretty sure I'd like to go with the front sport suspension from Art Morrison. I was looking around and found the Flat Out Engineering corvette IRS kit. Has anyone ever thought of mixing these components? Good idea/ bad idea? Let me know what you all think.

Can anyone tell me what kind of ride height I might be able to get out of a set up like this without further modifying the chassis? I'd like it to be a static 6 inches.

[FarmerSid]

Why not Vette front and rear?

[gearhead2069]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Why not Vette front and rear?

I don't know, I was looking at quite a few builds from members here on the forum who have done similar things and the front suspensions look as if they require quite a bit of notching. Other than the small notch on the bottom of the frame for the rack and pinion, it looks as though the needed to make some room for the upper control arms as well. They did a fantastic job on their builds but it just seems like a lot of additional work when compared to the Art Morison kit.

[FarmerSid]

Progressive Automotive makes a Vette cross member that installs like the Art Morison cross member and doesn't require such a big notch in the frame for the rack. They use a different rack where as Flatout uses the Vette rack. Using a Vette rack requires a larger notch in the frame because the rack is positioned higher up on the cross member.

The Art Morison and Progressive cross members may require less frame work to install but the Flatout cross member comes completely welded up, square etc but requires a bit more frame work to install. 6 of one half a dozen of the other I guess.

It's just my opinion but all three would be great choices but you'd be money ahead using Vette parts. Part of your decision will be how much work do you want to put into installing either parts. Morison will be weld in cross member and install new parts. Vette parts will require cleaning and possibly installing new bearings, tie rods ends etc.

[gearhead2069]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Progressive Automotive makes a Vette cross member that installs like the Art Morison cross member and doesn't require such a big notch in the frame for the rack. They use a different rack where as Flatout uses the Vette rack. Using a Vette rack requires a larger notch in the frame because the rack is positioned higher up on the cross member.

The Art Morison and Progressive cross members may require less frame work to install but the Flatout cross member comes completely welded up, square etc but requires a bit more frame work to install. 6 of one half a dozen of the other I guess.

It's just my opinion but all three would be great choices but you'd be money ahead using Vette parts. Part of your decision will be how much work do you want to put into installing either parts. Morison will be weld in cross member and install new parts. Vette parts will require cleaning and possibly installing new bearings, tie rods ends etc.

I believe the Art Morrison IFS comes welded up as well in the way you said the Flat Out system does. I only know this due to an article I was reading on the kit.

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/t...p_truck_build/

It just seemed easy in comparison to the Flat Out kit as I remember someone posting before that the instructions left a bit to be desired. Though, I really can't argue with you stating that I'd be coming out ahead on the cost... I guess I'll have to make some additional considerations...

As far as handling goes, do you think they would be similar or would I possibly have a little more out of one over the other? My only rational was that with the AME kit, I may have a little better geometry as that kit was designed for this chassis were as with the vette, I'm simply doing a retrofit. I was thinking the front suspension would be a bit more sensitive to that issue over the rear.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it...

[not2oldchevy]

I have a 53 with the flatout kit. Front bumper is 5 1/2" off the ground. Rides and handles good.

[gag1025]

The only thing I had to replace on my 1953 3100 was the entire bed because most of the original beds are pretty beat up. I also used a bolt on Mustang II bolt on front suspension from Chassis Engineering and it went on without a hitch. Very easy to attach. No welding required and no boxing required as well. You make one measurement on each side and the system is lined up perfect. If you drill the front top hole at the precise measurement given there is no way the system will be anything else but perfect. We marked the spots to drill and made several measurements to all areas of the truck and found out every one was dead on perfect. Then we drilled. The instructions are very easy to read and they are very thorough. If I had to do it over again I would use it again but I would also look at the system Justin has at Scott's Hot Rods. I was not aware that Scott's Hot Rods sold these units until I became a member on here. I would probably go with his system simply because I like to purchase products from people who are friends as well as people who I am acquainted with on sites like this. The fact is I had ordered most of my parts before I ever looked at this site. I wish I had waited and ordered all of my parts from Justin. So, do yourself a favor and go to his site and see what he has. I know you will like like what you see. I did order my Gotta Show hoses from him and I will tell you that they are much more cordial to work with than most of the people at the other companies. Most of them I have dealt with had personalities like Zombies. This was not the case with Justin and his crew at Scott's Hot Rods. Hey, I just wrote a commercial. I have included a couple of photos showing how simple it is to attach this suspension system. If you would like I will take a picture of the completed front end and post it. I used 8 inch AR wheels on the rear and 7 inch AR wheels on the front. The rear tires are 255 70 15 and the front tires are 225 70 15. The truck has a 2 inch rake from back to front. I love the stance.

[Hogger54]

Is the back of the frame bent, or is it just a weird angle showing the axle hump?
Might be pre '51. Can't tell for sure, but it looks like single pane windows in the doors, unless they have been converted.

[Rambow]

Have you thought about just contacting morrison for a complete new frame?

If you are already looking to update the front & rear suspension- their complete frames with brakes & differential actually wind up being pretty cost effective if you think about all the time and $$ spend buying the various pieces and getting it all done- unless you are planning on doing all the work yourself and can consider your labor and time as free.

Just a thought.

[FarmerSid]

Originally Posted by gearhead2069

I believe the Art Morrison IFS comes welded up as well in the way you said the Flat Out system does. I only know this due to an article I was reading on the kit.

http://www.customclassictrucks.com/t...p_truck_build/

It just seemed easy in comparison to the Flat Out kit as I remember someone posting before that the instructions left a bit to be desired. Though, I really can't argue with you stating that I'd be coming out ahead on the cost... I guess I'll have to make some additional considerations...

As far as handling goes, do you think they would be similar or would I possibly have a little more out of one over the other? My only rational was that with the AME kit, I may have a little better geometry as that kit was designed for this chassis were as with the vette, I'm simply doing a retrofit. I was thinking the front suspension would be a bit more sensitive to that issue over the rear.

I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it...

The Art Morison cross member requires you to weld the UCA mounts on top of the frame rails and are separate from the main cross member. Same with Progressive. Flatout's is one piece. I have s set of instructions and they are fine. I mean I can understand them.

My understanding is that the truck will weigh about the same as a C4 and is pretty close in wheel base. I figured that GM spent gobs of money on R&D for that suspension and it works very well. So I thought "why reinvent the wheel". I know nothing about AM's geometry so can't really comment if one is better than the other. I have my opinions.....

I chose C4 IFS and IRS parts and built my own cross member from measuring my stock C4 cross member and some help.

Pick what ever you like the best. It's your truck and money so do as you please. I hope what I have mentioned just better informs you.

[gag1025]

I have seen S10 frames used but the ones I have seen I did not like. I waned to keep the original frame because I wanted as much of the truck original as I could. But at the same time I wanted the ride, steering and braking to be like a new vehicle as well as the power of a 350 engine. The outside is as it was in 1953 (minus the side vents and cowl vent). Originality and comfort was my moto. I agree in that the entire frame conversion is a great way to go if you can afford it. It is, however, much more costly than the route I took. DEven with using the Mustang II front, and the Camaro differential, etc. my cost was half of what an entire frame would have cost. Another option is to use a Camaro front clip. There are a lot of great articles on how to do this. In the end it all depends on what you want and how much you have to spend. Another much cheaper and easier solution is to buy a Rack & Pinion steering system that will mount to your straight axle. I think either Brothers or CPP sells this along with all the parts needed to give your vehicle power disc brakes.

[gearhead2069]

Originally Posted by Hogger54

Is the back of the frame bent, or is it just a weird angle showing the axle hump?
Might be pre '51. Can't tell for sure, but it looks like single pane windows in the doors, unless they have been converted.

I think it might be the angle... That I've somehow repeated nearly identically in each picture.

As for the doors... That's interesting you asked that. I asked the same question when I was looking to purchase the truck. It didn't bother me that they were single pane as I wanted to convert that anyway. Apparently the lady that the truck was purchased from originally claimed that when the truck was ordered, being that it was towards the end of the war, GM was running low on supplies and had to send her doors from the previous year model. Now, I'm not entirely sure how accurate that story is but man do I hope it's true. That would be a pretty neat little piece of history with the truck if it were.

[gearhead2069]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

The Art Morison cross member requires you to weld the UCA mounts on top of the frame rails and are separate from the main cross member. Same with Progressive. Flatout's is one piece. I have s set of instructions and they are fine. I mean I can understand them.

My understanding is that the truck will weigh about the same as a C4 and is pretty close in wheel base. I figured that GM spent gobs of money on R&D for that suspension and it works very well. So I thought "why reinvent the wheel". I know nothing about AM's geometry so can't really comment if one is better than the other. I have my opinions.....

I chose C4 IFS and IRS parts and built my own cross member from measuring my stock C4 cross member and some help.

Pick what ever you like the best. It's your truck and money so do as you please. I hope what I have mentioned just better informs you.

When you went with the c4, how limited were you when it came to wheel size? I'd like to shoot for a 10 inch in the rear but it looks as though some of the components for the rear suspension may limit me in this aspect just because they are hanging outside the frame rails.

[FarmerSid]

Check out this thread. Stockish is using a C4 IRS and has posted what rims and tires he is using. A bit of other info from others on what worked for them. I don't have mine yet but am looking for the same as Stockish is using.

[gearhead2069]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Check out this thread. Stockish is using a C4 IRS and has posted what rims and tires he is using. A bit of other info from others on what worked for them. I don't have mine yet but am looking for the same as Stockish is using.

Well... I guess you have convinced me! I think I'm going to go with both front and rear from Flat Out. I feel that I have skills comparable to that of Stockish so I think I'll purchase rather than build my own.

The only thing I started worrying about was the diff's ability to hold. My current plan is to run with a 376/480 LS crate from GM. Obviously the c4 did not come with that many horses so I began to worry. Well, I started looking into it some more and apparently Dodge has been using the 44 in their Vipers for quite some time now. Starting in 2003 the Viper came from the manufacture with over 500 horses and they still used the same diff. Obviously, that was probably at the flywheel and not the wheels but then again, the engine I'd like to go with puts 480 to the flywheel so in theory I should be good...

Please feel free to chime in and correct any errors in my logic.

My next question is with modifying the OEM chassis as absolutely little as possible (other than boxing the frame and adding additional support to strengthen it) what kind of ride height can I expect to realistically achieve with this set-up? I'd like to drop it down to somewhere around 6-7 inches from the ground at the running boards. Does this sound feasible?

[solidaxel]

I think with your set up, your only problem is going to be in keeping from blowing the tires off of that rear.
For a 10" wheel in the rear, you will be doing some work on the inner fenders.
These trucks are VERY light in the back.........up in smoke, race over !!!

[solidaxel]

One other thing, find a good tuner in your area, you will be looking for one.
It may take a few times to get all the torque to the pavement

[mr48chev]

It looks like you have a goot d plan going. Running the original (style) frame solves a lot of issues that guys run into when doing frame swaps or subframe swaps.

The last time I weighed my 48 with the 250 six in it i think it was right at 3200 lbs and you are right on with the C-4 Corvettes weighing in at the same weight http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-g...-and-info.html Those that have this combination swear by it for both ride and handling.