Decision time: Do I bight the bullet and get an S10?

[skihor]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

I found another thread that covers a fair bit of this just to add to the conversation. Great information by the way...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=614784&page=1

I am still having difficulty, time-to-build aside, thinking that an S10 chassis swap is equally costly in $$$ than all the parts I would need for my AD to be mechanically current.

A short list from researching today:
Mustang II or similar IFS front end: $3000
Power steering $800
Steering Column $700
Rear end conversion to disc $600 add a brake master to that $100
Bed mount fuel tank $400 (I currently don't have a working fuel tank)

An S10 in good condition is going to be the price of that front end. Am I missing something here?

I understand both will take a lot of time and both have their complications with fabrication.

For $3000 I just bought a New Heidts M2, P.S IFS, SBC/700R4 mounts, New rear leafs with mounts + shocks, (adjusted to center the rear wheels in the wheel well), New power brake master, (bolt in), New column and a used '98 Explorer 3.73, 8.8" disc brake rear end. This set-up will result in approx. 4" drop from stock height. (front and rear) (stock spindle from Heidts)
3 or 4 days of welding/fab work and I have an IFS and 4 wheel power disc brakes. I went that way for several reasons: all new front end components, rack and pinion steering, No fab work for the radiator, the bumper mounts, the body, the fuel tank, inner fender mounting + everything front end sheet metal mounting. running boards...

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by joedoh

you only seem interested in scare tactics, not actual open mind reasoning. why would hard brake lines be damaged again? I only see the need for replacement on the stock frame, and only because the crossmember comes with disc brakes but none of the supporting hardware like booster or master.

LOLOL, I'm just being real! I am not scaring, I simply am asking him to look at it with an open mind so he is happy in the end. How many times do I have to say it's all good, what do you NEED, how many times do I have to say that? I am simply pointing out that there are times when we don't see things clearly. If after he looks at what he really NEEDS, and he needs a modern frame under his truck then he can go about making it happen.

I don't see a need for it and I explained why. No beating up, no calling names, just advice that's all it is.

Originally Posted by joedoh

mid engine truck looks great, have you done anything more recently? how about either of the options in this thread, crossmember or S10?

And again, I did the sub frame as I mentioned, and I don't believe in changing the whole frame so no I have never done it. It makes no sense to me to pull out a truck frame with a rear axle on leaf springs to put another frame that requires all kinds of mods to put simply put another truck frame with a rear axle on leaf springs. Put a crossmember and IFS on the front of the stock frame and go drive with a smile on your face.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by skihor

For $3000 I just bought a New Heidts M2, P.S IFS, SBC/700R4 mounts, New rear leafs with mounts + shocks, (adjusted to center the rear wheels in the wheel well), New power brake master, (bolt in), New column and a used '98 Explorer 3.73, 8.8" disc brake rear end. This set-up will result in approx. 4" drop from stock height. (front and rear) (stock spindle from Heidts)
3 or 4 days of welding/fab work and I have an IFS and 4 wheel power disc brakes. I went that way for several reasons: all new front end components, rack and pinion steering, No fab work for the radiator, the bumper mounts, the body, the fuel tank, inner fender mounting + everything front end sheet metal mounting. running boards...

Right on!

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

I don't actually have an opinion on want. My only want is the end result at a reasonable price with the least amount of downtime for the truck. the stock chassis is apealling for sentimental reasons and i have limited space to work. Having two disassembled cars means a storage unit for a while. I have to factor that cost in too. It still seems like a far more expensive option.

And this is why I say to look at all the options, you have limited space, you have two other disassembled cars! That is a big reason to do a little at a time on that stock frame. Look into a crossmember as skihor described he did.

Brian

[lv2tri2]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

You don't need to hear most of the same things over again. Just put me down as another board member telling you to stick with the stock frame unless it is SEVERELY rusted through in multiple places.

Putting a vintage body on a modern frame does NOT make you a classic truck owner/driver. It just makes you look like one. You could do the mods to put that body on say, a used Camry or Accord, would you then be a classic truck owner/driver? End of opinion.

This comment really has nothing to do with cost, but IMO makes more sense than any of the other arguments. Thanks Dan.

[joedoh]

this reminds me completely of a political debate

we need solutions that work!

party 1: you should try this, it works great

party 2: dont do it! you should try this one because I heard it will work and be a lot cheaper in the long run!

party 1: You havent actually tried it.

party 2: Well neither have you but if you look at the paperwork its much cheaper on paper.

party 1: Actually I have done and finished this 3 times in 2 years. I know what it costs, no matter how much you want it to be different.

party 2: Well it would still be cheaper to do it the way I suggest.

party 2.1: I did it for less than $X

party 2: See? PROOF

party 1: well, except some of the things he asked for arent getting done, and at $X its still more expensive by a large margin.

I dont know about anyone else who has done the S10 swap, but my investment for the donor wasnt 3k even with including new front suspension and brakes, spacers, borgeson steering components, and a couple other things. especially after I sold all the body parts and interior which actually made the donor cost less than free, it actually put money back in my pocket. and there is more that comes free with the donor like a frame mounted gas tank and power steering and a sway bar.

do whatever you like. its easy to get swayed either way. most of these projects dont fail at the end, they fail in the beginning, when motivation exceeds the ability to get something done. some people like to plan every detail and get stuck the instant something out of scope happens. skihor can write a detailed how-to like skymangs did for the s10, lots of pictures and words on what to cut and what to buy and what to install and that will help guys like giga with the uncertainty, and guys like me with my pessimism, because no matter what support you get from the forum for you ultimately are the one cutting and welding and building your truck. it is why we see a thousand "starting a new project" posts and only a few "finished my project" posts. nothing worse than amassing a large stock of brand new parts and the next step being a part-out ad on craigslist.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

this reminds me completely of a political debate

when I started the thread, I had hoped there would be a good reason everyone goes one way or another. I guess it turns out to be personal preference and I'm no closer to an answer now than I was yesterday.

I stayed up late did a ton of research and read till my eyes were dry and weary.

This thread was long but an eye opener on how many directions you can go with a stock frame and still end up doing an IFS front end.

Coach529 "Henry" build
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...554051&page=51

Maybe I should flip a coin. I did price out both and the S10 swap is about $1000 cheaper on major components. I didn't think of selling off parts to offset cost. Both routes are right on $10,000 with a 4 link rear, IFS front, and airbags and a 350/350 install. To JoeDoh's earlier post, I imagined the finished truck and went backwards. (Edit: I forgot the storage cost of storing the AD while I strip down an S10...that about balances out the cost)

My biggest struggle right now is finding that nugget of why my personal situation should dictate one or the other. With a fairly solid frame that has survived attached to a 67 yr old body I feel compelled to keep that going. My wallet does not feel the same compassion

I could consider the route that gets me on the road sooner, but Coach529's build thread is similar to my situation where I have a working 235ci in there already so the S10 wouldn't necessarily get me a roller any sooner.

time for a nap!

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by joedoh

this reminds me completely of a political debate

we need solutions that work!

party 1: you should try this, it works great

party 2: dont do it! you should try this one because I heard it will work and be a lot cheaper in the long run!

party 1: You havent actually tried it.

party 2: Well neither have you but if you look at the paperwork its much cheaper on paper.

party 1: Actually I have done and finished this 3 times in 2 years. I know what it costs, no matter how much you want it to be different.

party 2: Well it would still be cheaper to do it the way I suggest.

party 2.1: I did it for less than $X

party 2: See? PROOF

party 1: well, except some of the things he asked for arent getting done, and at $X its still more expensive by a large margin.

I dont know about anyone else who has done the S10 swap, but my investment for the donor wasnt 3k even with including new front suspension and brakes, spacers, borgeson steering components, and a couple other things. especially after I sold all the body parts and interior which actually made the donor cost less than free, it actually put money back in my pocket. and there is more that comes free with the donor like a frame mounted gas tank and power steering and a sway bar.

do whatever you like. its easy to get swayed either way. most of these projects dont fail at the end, they fail in the beginning, when motivation exceeds the ability to get something done. some people like to plan every detail and get stuck the instant something out of scope happens. skihor can write a detailed how-to like skymangs did for the s10, lots of pictures and words on what to cut and what to buy and what to install and that will help guys like giga with the uncertainty, and guys like me with my pessimism, because no matter what support you get from the forum for you ultimately are the one cutting and welding and building your truck. it is why we see a thousand "starting a new project" posts and only a few "finished my project" posts. nothing worse than amassing a large stock of brand new parts and the next step being a part-out ad on craigslist.

LOL, very good stuff Joe.

Brian

[iowaboynca]

I thought I chimed in last night but maybe forgot to hit 'submit'

Gig- You may want to take a look at 99tolife's builds. He has done the S10 in the past and I believe he's doing an IFS right now.

The reason I bring this up is he is also in PA, and if memory serves, he was concerned when it came to inspection/registration time on his frame swap. This hopefully will add to your decision.

At the end of the day, i guess you can say there is no 'right' way...as both directions work for the folks that want to go whichever route. When you get going on your build, make sure you set up a build page so we can tag along!

[gigamanx]

Thanks, I pinged him to find out more! Didn't think of registration. I just got my paperwork for the truck as it sits now. I'd hate to ruin my classic plates having a vehicle that can't be inspected before I ever see the road.

[joedoh]

pa doesnt have a VIN inspection for antiques, just send a pencil rubbing of the VIN plate to the DMV and they send a title. If your truck is already titled there is nothing more you need except to keep the bill of sale handy for whatever donor parts you use. that goes for engine/trans, rear end etc in addition to a frame swap.

source: I sold my truck to a guy in PA, I lived in PA 18 years, and my brothers and other family still live in PA and have titled antiques. I am sure people who dont live in PA will chime in to tell me I am wrong though and that you should be petrified of registration issues.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

pa doesnt have a VIN inspection for antiques, just send a pencil rubbing of the VIN plate to the DMV and they send a title. If your truck is already titled there is nothing more you need except to keep the bill of sale handy for whatever donor parts you use. that goes for engine/trans, rear end etc in addition to a frame swap.

source: I sold my truck to a guy in PA, I lived in PA 18 years, and my brothers and other family still live in PA and have titled antiques. I am sure people who dont live in PA will chime in to tell me I am wrong though and that you should be petrified of registration issues.

Your comments on a previous post were exactly how i got titled and registered with no fuss at all. So I'm listening

I'm registering as a classic not an antique. Requires inspection but not emissions. Would that make any difference?

[joedoh]

inspection is still done at a satellite location like a garage right? and it should be safety inspection, so brake pad thickness, tire tread depth, lights work, horn blows, etc. no sweat.

[gigamanx]

For the benefit of the thread, I have decided to go down the path of the S10 swap. I have had enough people and enough research to lean towards this direction. My primary reasoning is around how much information I can find online to help me in choosing a direction. I found far more help and after-market support for S10 suspension setups than I did for O.G. 1949 Chassis setups. I also have a local shop who has done a number of them for advice. I also like the idea of going to NAPA for whatever I need in the future.

Being thrifty, I hope and plan to make some spending money on selling the 235ci, frame, and the S10 body whereas the M2 route gives me very little to "hock."

Finally, I wanted to go the S10 route because I can build a reliable driver sooner with less cash up front and pick and choose my components later. The state of the 1949 right now I wouldn't trust to get me to the grocery store and back even if I changed the front end in a few weekends.

Thanks for everyone's input. Build thread to come when I have the two trucks in the driveway.

[1952ssr]

I don't object to any route used to build any AD truck. I did the same as you, S10 or MII route, the outcome was the same as you have figured. MII route was way more expensive. I had owned several S10's in my life so I was familiar with working on them, which is how I came to going that route. My swap took 2 years to do working at night and on Saturdays, I had never welded or done any type of automotive electrical work in my life, other than putting in stereo equipment. I made all my mounts, used the S10 wiring harness like mentioned in and earlier post and rewired the LT1 as well as have A/C. I've been driving my truck for 6 years and it still thrills me when I turn the key and hear that fuel pump hum knowing I did that with Gods help.

Go the route you feel comfortable with going, ask yourself what are my intentions for the truck. There is no right way or wrong way. At the end of the day you will be driving it so feel good about the decision you end up making. I know a guy who had a heidts chassis ready to go for his truck and decided to do an S10 swap, which I thought was insane but that's what he wanted to do. I am now building a '53 going the same route as I did before just doing things better from what I learned on the first build. There are plenty of threads on the site to help you with whatever way you decide to go. Good luck on your journey.