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Old 01-20-2012, 11:29 PM   #1
63GMCKid
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'63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can" Build

First off, awesome forum, I've lurked here for a long time before I made an account, gotten lots of great information and ideas. Anyway, on to the wordy first post....

I'm Chris and I'm building a '63 GMC 4x4. It will be a slow build as I am full time in school (for welding, ) so don't expect too much too fast. Being built on a starving student with access to awesome machines kind of budget. I'm 19, have 5 welding certs (4 TIG in the 6G position for chromoly, stainless, titanium, and aluminum, and 1 structural MIG cert) and working on more, I think I'm a pretty decent fabrimakator but I get to use all of the fancy machines at school like a PlasmaCAM, lathe, bridgeport mill, etc.

PICTURES WILL BE HERE, DON'T FREAK OUT JUST YET! JUST READ FIRST! I promise I'll have pictures for this within the next couple of days. I have to show off my cool TIG welded parts for cool points.

So here's the plan for it.... I want a truck that is reliable, very easy to work on with emphasis being put on easily accessing anything on the drivetrain, a very strong drivetrain, a major PITA for any car theif to steal, heavy metal body protection wherever possible to increase crash safety and obviously to protect the body, good towing capacity, capable offroad as this may be used to get to remote welding jobs from time to time, and most importantly, what all of this really adds up to, the peace of mind that I won't break it, as I have magazine syndrome... I've been working on it for a couple years now and progress has been slow but hoping to speed things up a bit.

Here's what gear it'll have -

-SBC350, nothing special other than an aluminum edelbroke performer intake

-TH400 with a TransGo 400-1-2 shift kit, acts similar to a manual VB only much more daily driver friendly, will hold 1st and 2nd to any RPM and it does have pretty good compression braking from what I've read, put it in 3rd and it'll run through the gears like normal "Drive" selection with "shift like you mean it" shifts. Trans will be getting a full rebuild with all new clutches, steels, bushings, orings, gaskets, torque converter, Transgo kit, etc.

-NP205, divorced ford drivers drop. Going this route because I'm building an HO72 front axle and drivers drop puts the pinion much further from the engine oil pan and drivers drop also avoids that large lump on the passenger side of GM transmissions. Nothing too special here other than 1350 joints for input and both outputs. 32 spline shafts all around, input and front output will interchange, rear will be a flange and flange yoke setup. Also getting a custom built driveline disc e-brake setup with cable and hydro operation on the e-brake caliper. Will be twin stick'd, and that combined with the e-brake, I can do that cool parallel parking maneuver like all the ricers do. Also will be getting a custom mounting system in the form of a plate for the front and rear of the case with fancy poly-bushings and all. The case will be getting a full rebuild with new gaskets and new input shaft (I have ford mated case internals and a divorced case housing, so I have to buy the input shaft).

-HO72 rear, already finished. Has a factory Eaton No-Spin locker, 4.56 gears, taper roller bearing pinion and load bolt. Did disc brakes too with 3/4 ton front D44/10b rotors, DIY4x caliper brackets (bolt on), and new 9/16-18 wheel studs (same thread that the 14b uses) from Dorman. New spring perches from WFO also welded onto the housing with 73-87 SRW spring mounting span width (wider than the older trucks). Also, I was an idiot and re-used the ring gear bolts when I put it back together, and read online that I wasn't supposed to after the fact. I have magazine syndrome (Or maybe Pirate4x4 syndrome?) which means the chunk is getting rebuilt again, re-setup with new ring gear bolts, and probably safety wired for cool points. Housing painted flat black, chunk and cover painted Chevy Orange with black bolt heads. I am a bit OCD with the whole black/orange thing but I think it looks cool.

-HO72 front, work in progress. After seeing another guy on Pirate4x4 start on an HO72/D60 hybrid, I knew that it only made perfect sense for my GMC since I have one in the rear. Using the HO72 housing and center chunk, extending the long side, cutting the short side, and everything from the inner C's outwards will be Dana 60 hardware. Already have the inner C's and the dimensions to get my housing built to the correct width, currently working on that. Inner shafts will be kept on the down low for now, I've got a cool but cheap trick up my sleeve on that to avoid paying $400 for custom inners. All outer hardware will be chevy 60, including stubs, knuckles, hubs, brakes, etc. Will have crossover steering of course with a panhard bar for extra stability. Axle seals will be of the Seals-It brand variety. Center chunk will be a ball bearing chunk with 4.56 cogs, open diff.

-Frame is a mint '63 GMC 4x4 K20 frame, and it'd already gone under the knife. Did my 52'' leaf swap up front, notched the frame for the leaf mount crossmember, has 2 leaf bolt holes for 2'' and 3'' forward. Crossmember made of heavy square tube and plate. It's all welded in and final. Engine motor mount crossmember is too. Previous owner had some funky mounts in it, so I drew up a fancy crossmember in CAD, cut it out on the PlasmaCAM and TIG'd it up, its plate welded in a box formation with some cool guy holes (you know, the holes with tube running through them... unfortunately no dimple dies). Crossmember uses poly-bushings, and the bushings are in the crossmember. Once they wear out, support the front of the engine, remove 10 bolts (4 per side from the crossmember and 1 for each poly-bushing) and it drops right out from the bottom and they can be replaced. Much easier than factory motor mounts. Rear suspension is currently being worked on, trying to match the front with anticipated height after weight as best I can. 56'' leafs for the rear.

Other basic stuff... removed the in-cab gas tank, going with something much bigger. Going to run a flat bed on this truck also. Interior floor from the firewall to the back of the cab has been truckbed lined. Will probably get some insulation mat and a rubber mat over that. Has a mint factory dash gauge panel, with an inaccurate boat compass that I put in it that changes direction when the door closes, but it looks cool. Truck still has the clutch pedal, but since I am going with an auto, that clutch pedal will get a small master cyl hooked up to it and it will work the driveline/e-brake caliper on hydro, and the factory e-brake lever will work the cable part of it. Will have a dash to back of cab center console that will have cup holders, trans shifter, tcase shifters CB, gauges, etc.

Body protection will be in the form of 2''x5''x.25'' rectangular tube where the rockers currently are. It will be a shame to cut out nearly perfect rockers out of the cab to replace with hefty steel, but only the trained eye should be able to see the end result, and it will keep the cab from getting tweaked should it be rubbing the rockers offroad. Also have a 4''x.25'' wall tube bumper for the front, that will get some more plate and such, with feet first mounted winch on it tucked up under the grill/in front of the core support if possible.


Anyway, I've probably gone on too long and lost some interest due to lack of pics, but don't worry, the pics will be here soon, this is my first vehicle build thread so I'm still learning. Hope you've enjoyed the read so far, any comments, questions, suggestions, and criticisms are welcomed!
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #2
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

First off welcome !! Next thing : you sure do talk alotJ/K Sounds like you have a pretty solid plan thats a good to have.i myself always go low with my vehicles but kind of want a 4x4 60-66 one just to have one, and interested in 4x4 builds since i know jack about 4x4's and like to learn so ill be keeping a eye on your build..and you got me wanting to see some welds of yours, go get the camera and post some pictures
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:18 AM   #3
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by losthope View Post
First off welcome !! Next thing : you sure do talk alotJ/K Sounds like you have a pretty solid plan thats a good to have.i myself always go low with my vehicles but kind of want a 4x4 60-66 one just to have one, and interested in 4x4 builds since i know jack about 4x4's and like to learn so ill be keeping a eye on your build..and you got me wanting to see some welds of yours, go get the camera and post some pictures
You'll see some TIG welding on quite a few parts for this, anything I can build at school/work I usually TIG weld, anything at home is MIG done with my Millermatic 200 (Best MIG machine Miller ever made!)


Well I found some old pictures on my photobucket so I'll start with those....

Here it is right after I got it, with the frightening 6 1/2'' tall rear lift blocks, clean engine, and a filthy trans/tcase. Had a 10b/14bff C&C, and a cracked and popped out windshield (thats what the tarp is for) in it when I got it.




Again this is an older picture, it still had the SM465/205 in it at the time, but this was right after I did the spray in truck bed liner and painted the dash. Note the cool guy liquid filled boat compass and perfect dash insert (not cracked or anything, just painted flat black)




And of course, the all mighty orb of traction, Eaton No-Spin/Detroit locker. For being in a truck bed trailer axle for 20+ years with a toasted R&P, this No-Spin is in mint condition.





Now these aren't actually my pictures, but this guy from another forum that goes buy Gouky gave me the drawings for this e-brake setup, great guy with lots of information, and these are pics of his e-brake setup, I cut out the same caliper bracket and my own rotor but this gets the point across. Uses an '89 Pontiac Grand Prix rear brake caliper, only $60 from RockAuto for a Kelsey Hayes reman.








This should be enough to hold you guys over for now right?
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:11 AM   #4
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Welcome to the forum Chris

Sounds like you have a great 4x project in the works. Being a fellow fabricator, I am anxious to see more pics. I've been wanting to build my '63 4x4 Suburban for sometime now. I'll just have to settle for my '75 Blazer instead, as it will be less work.

I like the looks of that TC e-brake setup. How/where does a guy find more details on that? Pirate?

Have you been to this forum yet http://www.offroadfabnet.com
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:41 AM   #5
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

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Welcome to the forum Chris

Sounds like you have a great 4x project in the works. Being a fellow fabricator, I am anxious to see more pics. I've been wanting to build my '63 4x4 Suburban for sometime now. I'll just have to settle for my '75 Blazer instead, as it will be less work.

I like the looks of that TC e-brake setup. How/where does a guy find more details on that? Pirate?

Have you been to this forum yet http://www.offroadfabnet.com
Thanks!

On that e-brake, have you heard of a company called High Angle Driveline? They sell basically the same thing, but they use a very hard to find and fairly expensive mechanical agricultural/industrial caliper. The advantage of the setup I'm running is pads are cheap and can be purchased at any local parts house, same with the caliper itself. If you are interested, PM me and I can send you the file for the caliper bracket and show you some of my disc drawings. I am going to remake the disc for mine though, first one was a 3 layered piece, its basically drilled and vented but its not cast, the center layer just looks like some crazy saw blade and it "scoops" in the air. I figured if I ever had to depend on this as an e-brake, it would need to stay cool because of the much higher speeds a driveline brake sees vs a wheel brake. But the problem is that it'll probably warp if I use it for front digs, so I am going to make a new one as just a single layer like the one in the pics.

If you have access to a CNC plasma cutter and a lathe then making your own disc is a piece of cake, same with the bracket. If not, you can print out the drawing at 1:1 scale and just use it as a template, since its not converted to a cut path. And the caliper is an '89 Pontiac Grand Prix rear caliper, it does matter left or right because of cable routing. If its going on a passenger drop case, you need a left caliper if the cable is coming in from the drivers side, if its a drivers drop case you need a right caliper if the cable is coming in from the drivers side. Also, the bracket can only bolt on 1 way on a ford case, and I'm pretty sure you would just mirror the drawing of the caliper bracket before cutting if you were making it for a chevy case.

PM me though, I'll gladly send over the drawing for the bracket if you want it, maybe the disc too if you want to run the exact same setup (flange too).

Unfortunately there really isn't any more information on this setup other than HAD's kit and the info above. Anything on pirate about this is beating a dead horse IMO, the options for an NP205 are really only the HAD kit or custom.


EDIT: And yes I have been to OFN, I didn't find it too thrilling, seemed really dead over there? Maybe they limit what new members can see? I never bothered posting though.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:49 AM   #6
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Very interesting! I remember my Dad used to drive truck and the ebrakes back then were around the driveshaft. I rember the stories of the ebrake catching fire! What really sparked my interest I just picked up a divorced Ford transfercase out of a late 60's F-250. It looks real close to IH transfercases of the 70s. I baught it so it wouldn't go to China. I may use it afterall...
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:25 AM   #7
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

can't wait to see pics of the frame mods.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:50 AM   #8
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Welcome!
I'll be watching this thread for sure!
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:25 PM   #9
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Welcome to the forum! I always wanted to convert my 63 to 4 wheel drive, looking forward to seein how yours turns out!
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:40 PM   #10
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

I'm impressed with your knowledge and capabilities for your age. This is a case where an old fart will learn from a whippersnapper. Good luck with your build and welding career.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:48 PM   #11
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Pictures are uploading to Photobucket now, might be about an hour with my painfully slow DSL internet.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:50 PM   #12
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

sounds like a great build. i would love to get me a 4x4 60-66 also. but dont know too much about the 4wd. maybe ill learn a thing or two from this thread. keep up the work and post more pix
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #13
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Alright no real particular order here, just some pics to hold your interest!

First up, frame with front leaf spring crossmember. 2.5''x.25'' square tube with 3/8'' plate tabs for the leafs. 2'' and 3'' forward holes. Options are important, I like things to be tunable. Also in the picture is the engine mount crossmember. Excuse the mess of leafs, the cottonwoods in the yard are huge and next to impossible to clean up after.






Motor mount crossmember, excuse the rust, I finished this part a while back and it's been outside installed for mock up. Uses poly bushings, simple to install (it's self aligning with the bolt holes really, since the plates welded to the frame are angled away from each other at the bottom and towards each other at the front), rather than have individual nuts going through, there is another plate behind the ones welded to the frame with nuts welded on, so no trying to hold a wrench back in there, no fiddling with individual nuts, etc.



Of course, gotta have the weld porn...



Here is the rear Eaton HO72, not much to say here, has disc brakes, its painted to look cool (Flat black and Chevy orange), has a factory No-Spin locker and 4.56 cogs inside.

These Eaton HO72/HO52 axles are the best kept secret on 4 wheeling IMO. They are considerably lighter than a 14bff and lighter still with disc brakes, higher ground clearance than a 14bff, all steel housing for welding trusses and link tabs to, ring gear load bolt, MASSIVE pinion shaft, no crush sleeve to worry about on the pinion (bearing preload on the taper roller bearing models is set with a simple spacer between the two bearings, can remove the yoke at any time and not worry about measuring the torque of the pinion yoke nut), axle shafts with no neck down - they are hoss from flange to splines, factory lockers aren't too hard to find if you go looking for these axles, still pretty abundant because alot of the street crowd sells them off due to lack of street friendly ratios. Only down side is bearings are expensive for these. The other positive things more than make up for that. They are a win win over 14bff's in my opinion.








And here is a quick pic of the housing I'm using for the Eaton/60 hybrid front axle, already have the spindles cut off of it. This housing is actually a '58 HO72 housing. The reason it got cut up for front axle use is because I learned the hard way that not all SRW HO72's are the same width. Earlier ones are about 1/2'' narrower per side than later ones, the difference can be seen in the axle shafts. I got later hubs all setup on this older housing with my discs and brackets, went to check to see if everything would fit and the calipers with pads wouldn't fit, the discs were 1/2'' too close to the caliper brackets on both sides. Then I compared an old housing to a later house and the spindles are slightly different in length, causing the problem. The reason they are like this is because the older HO72/52's used a slide on brake drum, and the later ones had a stud retained drum like the 14bff. Just something to keep in mind for you folks out there running the HO72/52 axles and wanting to do disc brakes. If your axle originally had slide on drums, later hubs will not solve the problem, you need special caliper brackets with less bend/spacing to them, or you need a later HO72/52 with stud retained drums. With the later ones though, EVERYTHING used to convert a 14bff to disc brakes bolts right up, only thing major your have to do is drill the hubs for the larger 14bff wheel studs. Anyway, here is the quick pic of just the housing for the front -

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Old 01-21-2012, 09:33 PM   #14
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Alright now for some more welding porn. Made some 1'' forward offset motor mount plates for my motor mount crossmember. When I put that crossmember in, I moved the mount center line 3'' forward from where the previous owner had it, not sure if it was in the factory location as they were some hack mounts. Anyway, turns out that the engine is still 1'' behind the later model engine location, so I made these offset mounts. I also inadvertently raised the engine/trans up a few inches with this mount, which is excellent for offroad ground clearance, as a goal for this truck is to have a completely flat frame underneath with nothing hanging below it, but this scenario is bad for the floor boards. Time will tell just how much surgery I'll have to do on the cab to get it to fit. Anyway, here's the mounts with some TIG welding porn for everyone. Made of 2 pieces of 3/16'' steel, cut on the PlasmaCAM.

EDIT: These aren't finished yet either, still have to weld tabs to them and do some fancy machine work to them on the mill.








The e-brake caliper bracket, and a rough bench assembly to show how it goes together.



More TIG welding porn on the caliper bracket


Quick bench assembly showing the main component. Flange is from WFO Concepts, flange yoke is from DLSF (Driveline Service of Fresno) and I must say they have great prices on driveshaft builder parts, and a massive selection.


Check out the rotor, vented and drilled is bling trophy truck stuff for sure!


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Old 01-21-2012, 09:46 PM   #15
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Now here is the part that I personally am the most proud of so far. These mounting plates took alot of hours behind the computer screen and out in the garage measuring to get the drawing perfect so when it cut on the PlasmaCAM, it turned out perfect. Both of my welding instructors at the community college own welding businesses and PlasmaCAM machines and were quite impressed by my mount plates here, as getting oddball clocked holes with uneven round bolt patterns to line up is no easy task.

First up, the divorced housing itself. Drivers drop Ford divorced NP205. Those massive chunks of iron for the factory mount locations are getting cut off in favor of the plates I made, which will get tabs and poly-bushings. Plates are made from 3/16 steel and cut on the PlasmaCAM.



Every single bolt hole lines up perfectly on both the back.......


and the front!






Did someone say super bling trophy truck sway bar arms? Got bored one day and drew these bad boys out and cut them from 1/4'' 6061-T6 aluminum, each arm is made of 3 pieces for a total 3/4'' thick. Why spend $300+ on a Currie Anti-Rock bar when I can machine some square ends on 1/2t truck torsion bars and make my own awesome looking arms? They aren't finished yet and kind of dirty from laying in the back of my daily driver truck for a while, but the pics should speak for themselves. As for welding them, it was all the little Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG machine could do at 200 amps to weld these beasts, once they were up to temp I didn't stop welding for anything! Done with a WP20 watercooled TIG torch and 3/32 tungsten, 200 amps and pedal to the metal.









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Old 01-21-2012, 09:52 PM   #16
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Well every build needs a beefy part or two, so just for grins, here's some meat on this truck's bones...


A Dana 60 stub yoke next to a 10 bolt.... I think a see a puny little 10 bolt shaft back there somewhere...




And here is one of many reasons why I like the Eaton HO72/52 axles... the absolutely MASSIVE pinion shaft, what other axle out there short of 2.5t's has a pinion shaft that big? That ruler doesn't lie, 2'' and huge splines.











That's all of the pictures for now folks! Please feel free to comment, suggest things, criticize things, question things, or request tech for anything posted! And thanks for all of the welcomes and interest in the build! Much appreciated!
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:58 PM   #17
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Man you can hang a big winch off of the front spring hanger cross member.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:07 PM   #18
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

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Man you can hang a big winch off of the front spring hanger cross member.
Funny you should mention that, I had been planning on doing that with the bumper rather than that cross member and when I was taking these pictures, I realized that I can't feet first mount a winch behind the bumper because this cross member is in the way. I'll figure something out when I get there though. I plan on utilizing that spring mount cross member for part of the bumper mount. Think a "quickly removable receiver hitch" kind of system.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:31 PM   #19
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

I just picked up a syncrowave 250 and my welds look like crap ... Still trying to learn the correct settings etc. ...You've got talent , keep up the good work !!
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:05 PM   #20
63GMCKid
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

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I just picked up a syncrowave 250 and my welds look like crap ... Still trying to learn the correct settings etc. ...You've got talent , keep up the good work !!
My best advice there would be to look into what a community college near you offers for welding classes. If you have the extra time, it's definitely worth it to take a class or two. My welding skills (Technique and machine setup) would not be where they are now without my classes!
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Old 01-22-2012, 01:40 AM   #21
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Very nice work

I too am impressed with the quality of your work. Keep at it, and keep trying to get just a little better, and you will have no trouble finding work.

Yeah the OFN is a lot less active than say Pirate or CK5, but there is a lot less BS than on Pirate. The OFN is more for the fabrication side of off road, especially for tube design and bending. The owner of the OFN is also the owner of 2020 Software Solutions, developers of Bend Tech tube bending software.

I'll send you a PM about that e-brake assembly.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:14 AM   #22
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Thanks!

I may start using OFN as an info source fairly soon as I am building a hydraulic tube bender, and considering my budget I can't afford to be wasting DOM tube, so their bend software and info/tech will probably be good to read up on.

And you've got a PM and e-mail.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:55 AM   #23
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Are you going to build your own dies for the bender or buy the dies and build the bender around them.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:22 AM   #24
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

Awesome work man ... very clean welds !

Welcome Home ....

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Old 01-22-2012, 12:03 PM   #25
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Re: '63 GMC 4x4 "Just Because I can/Do It All" Build

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Are you going to build your own dies for the bender or buy the dies and build the bender around them.
I wish I could build my own dies, that would save me about $200+! I am buying the die and building the bender. This is the bender I'm building... http://www.gottrikes.com/Tube_Bender.htm. It uses ProTools 105 dies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefRocka View Post
Awesome work man ... very clean welds !

Welcome Home ....

Thanks!
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