Make it handle

[robnolimit]

Conumdrum This is where the geometry gets a little tricky. to start with, I'll let you know that the inner pivit point on the stock centerlint is 5/8" too high. - (or the outer tie rod pivit point is 5/8" too low). If you notched and raised the crossmember 5/8" things would be perfect. But, not low enough, I'd guess. So, if you raise it 1 1/2", you have a 7/8" mis-match. You can swap the outer tie rod ends for hiems, and put them on the bottom of the steering arm, but that is a 1 1/4" flip, so you would havs a 5/8" mis-match the other way. How do you fix it? Well, you could move the steering box and idler arm mount holes up 7/8". You could heat and bend the pitman arm and idler arm up 7/8" - I hear you cringing, but it is possible - You could do the tie rod flip, and bend the pitman and idler down 5/8" - be warned that the tie rod flip forces you to run an 18" wheel or bigger with drop spindles - You could check into the Hotchkis center link, but I don't know how much of a drop it has at the pivit points, You could build your own centerlink with the inner pivits in the correct location, and Lastly, you could get one of our new rack and pinion kits (shameless promo) that mounts to the crossmember, so the geometry stays intact with anty placement of the crossmember. Our JT has a 1 1/2" raised crossmember and a rack. wheew, lots of choices.
CJ leafs can work very well, just ask Mary Posi, 11 time national auto-x champ. Shortening the bed = shortening the wheelbase. This is good for corners at spedds under 80 mph, but starts to make the trucks twitchy at higher speeds

[Conundrum]

So you guys have a rack kit that mounts to the stock crossmembers of the I think it's 63-87 chevy/gmc trucks? I would like to know more about that. Is it on your website?

How much would moving the lower ball joint 1.5"(?)(I think that was in an earlier post) forward change the outer pivot point? Would that correct the situation with using a sectioned crossmember, flipped outer tie rod end using a hiems and the stock steering components?

[robnolimit]

The rack kits are not on our web site yet, we have been putting info up on a thread hear called "bolt in power rack". Moving the lower ball joint 1" raises the out tie rod end up about 1/8", not enough to solve all the ploblems, but every little bit helps

[Conundrum]

Thanks, i'm going to look into the rack kit.

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

The rack kits are not on our web site yet, we have been putting info up on a thread hear called "bolt in power rack". Moving the lower ball joint 1" raises the out tie rod end up about 1/8", not enough to solve all the ploblems, but every little bit helps

Hi Rob, I googled "bolt in power rack" on the forum and didn't get your thread, can you supply a URL?

Thanks,

[Conundrum]

Here you go, I found it today....

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=441047

[robnolimit]

Thanks, I'm not to good at that stuff. Next week we're doing an install with StreetTrucks mag on a '65 sb that is a current driver. This will be our final test fit before production. If Travis (Streettrucks) and Jake (Truck owner) can do the install alone, and it works, then we're good to go. We always have our test parts installed by someone else to see if there is anything we overlooked, Its good to have a different set of eyes and hands involved.

[hotroddr]

I'd be happy to volunteer to test fit the rack setup.

[TrueChevyTech]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Truechevytech Although I understand the politicaly correct crowd, I'm quite willing to call it as I see it, and let our shop reputation ride it out. That being said, the one thing you need to keep in mind is quality. You can use mostly stock parts, and upgrade to bags, like using Ride-Tech 'cool ride' kits. Shocks will be important, and the longer the better. Try Porters upper mount for the front, and our new rear kit. When it comes to controls, this is where you need to spend some coin. While you can use two dual needle guages, and four switches, use a TOP QUALITY valve block, RideTech, or AccuAir. Yes, you can use their digital diplays/controls if you want too, but that will push up the $$. A large air reserve is more important than multiple pumps. One ViAir 400 or 440 compressor, and a 5 gal tank (or two 2 or 3 gal) will be all you need. 1/4" inch line is fine, but I like 3/8" for a bit more speed on the 'up' stroke. Stay away from anything bigger, as it is tough to tune in to ride height.

Sorry craaazy busy at work cant keep up on the boards. we're talking all stock but shock mounts? With the addition of bags and a control system, I thought I read back a ways that the wheel wasn't centered in the wheel opening and the ball join angle isn't the best for ?camber?.. we're talking about a '67

[Greywolf200]

Greetings Rob, how is your control arm comparision project going? Was the JT control arm modification a reaction to not being able to get an arm with the proper geometry?

Question 2: Could a tubular front cross member (similiar to a drop member but to improve handling rather that laying frame) be built with modified suspension points to improve handling and possibly reduce weight over the front wheels? Or would this be a complete redesign of the original components? I'd rather spend money on this than something that renders my bed unusable and hides my tires up in the wheelwells.

Thanks,

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Greetings Rob, how is your control arm comparision project going? Was the JT control arm modification a reaction to not being able to get an arm with the proper geometry?

Question 2: Could a tubular front cross member (similiar to a drop member but to improve handling rather that laying frame) be built with modified suspension points to improve handling and possibly reduce weight over the front wheels? Or would this be a complete redesign of the original components? I'd rather spend money on this than something that renders my bed unusable and hides my tires up in the wheelwells.Thanks,

Porterbuilt is currently finishing up the design of just such a crossmember.

[tech@scottshotrods]

We at Scott's Just acquired a nice lil project that is 90% done, Mike Finnegans old C-10 that we had been working on for the last 3-4 years! It sports a svt cobra Independent rear suspension, FOX double adjust. remote reservoir shocks, Scott's IFS with double adjust. FOX double adjust remote reservoir shocks, a healthy not so stock LS2.. We should have it done fast and at an auto cross track near you! hopefully we'll give ya a run for your money Rob :-)

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Greetings Rob, how is your control arm comparision project going? Was the JT control arm modification a reaction to not being able to get an arm with the proper geometry?

Question 2: Could a tubular front cross member (similiar to a drop member but to improve handling rather that laying frame) be built with modified suspension points to improve handling and possibly reduce weight over the front wheels? Or would this be a complete redesign of the original components? I'd rather spend money on this than something that renders my bed unusable and hides my tires up in the wheelwells.

Thanks,

we offer a coil over cross member available now that we have been selling for the last year!

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

we offer a coil over cross member available now that we have been selling for the last year!

Thanks for the info, but I don't want Mustang suspension on my truck. It'll still be used as a shop truck.

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Thanks for the info, but I don't want Mustang suspension on my truck. It'll still be used as a shop truck.

What makes you think it is a mustang II??? we use a mustang spindle but our upper and lower A-arm pivots are not mustang II nor is any thing else on the suspension. Here at Scott's Hotrods We manufacture our front crossmembers specific to that vehicle and never use MII geometry. Our C-10 BOLT IN crossmember is specifict to the 63-87 Chevy truck

[tech@scottshotrods]

here's a sneak peak as whats to come!






We're coming for you Rob!!!!!!

[68GMCCustom]

nice!

[Custom 68]

I have been following both this thread and the JT build thread. My question is on frame bracing or stiffening. It looked like in the JT thread the extra stiffening was minimal. I have been "finished" for a few years but keep improving. I am about ready to take teh bed off mine and put a small c notch and work on the shock angles and get my sway bar back installed.
While this is off I thought about adding some stiffness to teh frame but was not sure how much should be done. Any guidelines on this?
Thanks
David

[robnolimit]

Greywolf The stock crossmember for C-10's has a couple of problems. It hangs too low and ground clearance can be an issue on lowered trucks. The geometry doesn't allow for the type of caster/camber settings we would want, and it's heavy. I know that Nate Porter is working on a coil-over, - performance oriented version of the Dropmember. I don't know of any others. With a bit of fab work, the stock crossmember can be raised 1 1/5" without getting into too much trouble. (ground clearance solved) Many companies offer A-arms that fix, or help fix, the geometry problem. As for wieght, I think a crossmember swap might save 40 lbs ??? Nate? anybody? Custm fabbing an aluminum core support would be a better use of funds, and better wieght to loose (higher and farther forward) - Hotchkis, I know the C-10's are going on a diet, don't forget this mod if you want to beat me in P-town - your welcome.
By the way. i feel that I have to chime in here. Mustang II geometry is still - 35 yrs later - some of the best working stuff ever designed. Racers still use it, and rodders still copy it. BUT, it has to be used it the right application. 40 fords, 37 chevy's, and small cars and trucks whose body configuration needs a narrow track, 56 1/2" to 58 1/2". Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

[robnolimit]

custom 68 We did do some minimal bracing on the JT, we should get the info up on the JT thread this weekend. Boxing the rear kick, and adding a bit of tubing to create triangles is the goal. Do you already have a rear sway bar? I'l do my best to get the info up soon

[robnolimit]

Jon@Scotts Glad to see your building a competitor. BRING IT

[Custom 68]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

custom 68 We did do some minimal bracing on the JT, we should get the info up on the JT thread this weekend. Boxing the rear kick, and adding a bit of tubing to create triangles is the goal. Do you already have a rear sway bar? I'l do my best to get the info up soon

Great I will be looking, I think in the mean time I will remove my bed and get ready for some work. I also am going to make a battery box and move it back, this will all be easier with the bed off. I will also look into flipping or fabricating new bracket for the front trailing arm attachments. I have read about moving this piviot up.
The sway bar I have is from a Camaro there was an article on here a few years back on how to do this. I did it on the cheap and on my own which is what I enjoy. During the Hot Rod Power tour 2010 during my 2500 mile stint between my buddy and his stuff and the necessary cooler you haul when you have a truck i had bottomed out the sway bar or atleast I thought I might be as the clearance to the frame was really thin so we removed it during one of the stops. Some of the roads can be questionable. I now want to lower the rear another inch or so with blocks so that is where I am on that.
The sway bar really seemed to help and I miss it. I will make some clearance and stiffen the rear as I go and await info on your rack and pinion setup.
Thanks
David

[Greywolf200]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

That's why I don't want a Mustang suspension on my truck. Did you ever finsish your testing of available A-arms to see if there was a suitable one for updating the front end geometry?

Thanks,

[tech@scottshotrods]

Well good thing we dont offer or sale a mustang II..... how did we get on the mustang II topic again? LOL like mentioned our coil over front has been on the market now for over a year with great success

[Hotchkis]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Greywolf The stock crossmember for C-10's has a couple of problems. It hangs too low and ground clearance can be an issue on lowered trucks. The geometry doesn't allow for the type of caster/camber settings we would want, and it's heavy. I know that Nate Porter is working on a coil-over, - performance oriented version of the Dropmember. I don't know of any others. With a bit of fab work, the stock crossmember can be raised 1 1/5" without getting into too much trouble. (ground clearance solved) Many companies offer A-arms that fix, or help fix, the geometry problem. As for wieght, I think a crossmember swap might save 40 lbs ??? Nate? anybody? Custm fabbing an aluminum core support would be a better use of funds, and better wieght to loose (higher and farther forward) - Hotchkis, I know the C-10's are going on a diet, don't forget this mod if you want to beat me in P-town - your welcome.
By the way. i feel that I have to chime in here. Mustang II geometry is still - 35 yrs later - some of the best working stuff ever designed. Racers still use it, and rodders still copy it. BUT, it has to be used it the right application. 40 fords, 37 chevy's, and small cars and trucks whose body configuration needs a narrow track, 56 1/2" to 58 1/2". Also weight can be a factor on front suspension choice. There are heavier springs available, but the suspension design itself has its limits. So, don't knock 'em - in the right place.

Rob,
Thanks for the tip. We’ll take a look at the support. We can build you a custom one, just for your truck. It might end up being a few pounds heavier than stock. We hope you don’t mind.