The (first?) Chevy Diesel was a Dud?!?

[Tigger]

Hello Everybody

Hello, I am new here with an old truck. But I am not new to old vehicles.
A few years back I purchased a 78 chevrolet DIESEL from the original owner which some may recall came from the factory with an Oldsmobile 350 Big Block and a TH400 transmission. I did a search and found no info on this model, so please direct me if I am in the wrong location.
The engine was a dud because it was frankensteined by G.M, smoked alot and gave the previous owner mostly grief. He converted the Oldsmobile back to gasoline while keeping the original manifolds and exhaust pipes. I have since put a New carburetor on it with electric choke.This truck has only 47,000kms (less than 30,000 miles) with original paint . I've been stopped a few times because she still shines when washed on a nice summer's day .
My Question/Dilema :: The Oldsmobile has enough torque to pull stumps out of earth sideways and is a great working engine but it was GM's least efficient motor! This is the problem. I am interested in converting the nice body to a modern Chevy/GM vortex driveline. Are there any experts out there that can share their wisdom on this conversion??
Am I crazy to do this to an older truck or pass it on to someone who appreciates originality?? I restore old racecars and do custom fabrication so I do respect original hardware alot. The truck has an 8 foot box and still perfect white C H E V R O L E T lettering on the tailgate. One classy Truck!!

Thanks,

Rob Martel

www.robmartel.com
http://photos.yahoo.com/sunbeambob

[special-K]

I see nothing wrong with updating a well preserved truck.You wouldn`t be considering this on one in rough condition.Although you have a nice surviving example,those aren`t bringing real crazy money,yet.Since it came with the 5.7 diesel originally,it would be right in there with most of the rest being converted.That Olds block is a sought after motor for drag racing.A very stout block to handle big horsepower.It`s just me,but I`d consider putting a marine-duty 6.5TD in there.Go to www.peninsularmarine.com and see.I have one and love it.If you have any interest in GM diesels there`s a site to go,www.thedieselpage.com for lots of info.Have fun with it.It sounds like a nice truck.

[_Dick_]

This will give you an idea what 4.3 looks like installed

[Tigger]

Thanks for the links and images. The engine compartment has enough room for a big diesel as the 4.3l does look small in the large cavity!. Being a purist has it's down sides when it comes to practicality. When I was offered this truck through a past acquaintance, it was because they knew it would be taken care of and not be abused. I have had several people commenting on why I received the phone call for ownership and not them.
I agree the value for a 28 yr. old truck is not that high, but we all know how much it costs to re-build a rusty hulk (been there on my 74 GMC) and since the truck has Character, I wish to strengthen the weakest links. I have already replaced the hydro-static power brake unit with the standard Vacuum unit and now I am pondering putting a vortex in from my friends Suburban. It however needs a modern transmission., I have never really though about the Diesel driveline untill now. Thanks for the info on the Diesels but physically I can't stand the smell of a Diesel, especially in the morning.
I would doubt the Big Block Oldsmobile engine is worth much up here in the Tundra, the Transmission I was told is TH400/Extra Heavy Duty. The Truck has Dual Batteries, and the unique Dash/Instrument lay-out specifically for the Diesel. I find it funny how customers come to me wanting "original" and "as new" when it comes to their treasure and Here i am doing the opposite

Rob Martel

[Ziptar]

I am the proud owner of a 79 C-10 with the Olds 5.7L Diesel.

I just bought it for $250.00.




I bought it specifically for the motor. I'll be putting it in my 85 C-10.

yes, the Olds 350 Diesels had issues Basically too few head bolts that weren't strong enough but, it's nothing that can't be overcome, especially with the later DX Blocks. If your curious and want to know more about the Olds Diesel check out olds-diesel.com

I love the smell of diesel in the morning. Personally I prefer to throw $$$ at an old Boxy Chevy than any of the junk on new car lots nowadays. A DIY frame up on a 73-87 2WD truck costs less too.

I am sure you know that the Bolt Pattern on the bell housing of the TH400 in your truck will be different than a SBC / 6.2L / 6.5L engine. You'll either need a tranny with a Chevy pattern or a BOP to Chevy Adapter

[bigblock73]

Tigger, welcome to the board from MN.

If you want to read more about diesles in '78's, I have an article on 73-87.com that might interest you.

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_01.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_02.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_03.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_04.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_05.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articles/Diesel350_06.jpg

[bigblock73]

One more article

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articl..._diesel_01.jpg

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/articl..._diesel_02.jpg

[Blue85]

Dick, What A/C system are u using in your truck?

[Ziptar]

Jeff,
Thanks for those links... I never knew they were on your site, I enjoyed them.

[bigblock73]

Originally Posted by Ziptar

Jeff,
Thanks for those links... I never knew they were on your site, I enjoyed them.

No problem, I have tons more. Here is a link to the page where you can find more cool stuff.

http://www.73-87.com/7387info/7387info.htm

[Tigger]

Thanks for all the responses, This is the first I have ever heard positive about the Olds-Diesel. Up this way, all I have heard is bad news about the G.M diesel attempt, the grief. We all know that when your ride leaves you on the side of the road, or doesn't even get you there, sour tongues prevail.
Yes, I do have a funny problem, sitting on the fence deciding what to do with this beauty. The 350 rocket will dance when I put my toes into the fan, but I think I need reliability and some fuel savings more than anything. Also, working on cars through the day kinda leaves me with a dislike for working on my own vehicle. I just want to hop in and drive like the rest of us.
The Truck is not for show, just shows nice. And ofcourse it is parked for the winter. That's what they make Fords right? Winter Beaters.
My 74 GMC was a straight six and was much better on gas, and I used the Truck for the work it was meant to do. I had room for two sixes under the hood and had no problems once I climbed in for maintainence.
Just a side note, Don't drive an ex-Diesel with the Diesel emblems still on like I did. The first week I owned the truck , the gas bar attendant ignored my request for "Regular" and pumped the tank full of Diesel due to the "DIESEL" emblem that he passed on the Tailgate. I hear it is much worse when gas is pumped into the Diesel tank, I think I got away lucky with my first lesson

I too would rather drive this model of truck. People move out of the way when CHARLENE comes up behind them!!. Anybody remember Christine the Buick Roadmaster(I think). The previous owner tagged this truck as "Charlene the Chevrolet", her sister. It stays with the Truck!!!

Yes, there is a aroma of antifreeze misting out one of the tailpipes, the oil is still clean, but a head gasket is up on the to-do list. This is why I am thinking of an upgrade. A New GM driveline is very responsive also.


Rob Martel

[_Dick_]

i have Old Air Products
http://www.oldairproducts.com/shop/index.php

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Tigger,i reread you post ,just thinking out loud you have a real problem LOL.If i understand right you have a very limited truck in near perfect condition correct . The truck performs as it was built too, yet your going to put it under the knife and fix it ?? Am i understanding all this correctly ??
I sure don't want your problem ,nope not making any judgment more teasing you ,laffing at the predicament you got your self into i wouldn't want to be there for sure

now the money he he I can see it now the upgrade worth xxxxxx dollars the org truck cleaned up worth 50% more and your starved your kids to buy the upgrades ,you getting 30 to life for killing the possible buyer for telling you he would have paid more for the Org Truck laffin nope I don't want your problem

welcome to the board its a great bunch everyone will help you next thing send in 25 bucks to join we need your money before your first hearing ,yes we have good Lawyers here also and no matter what you do i will help you anyway i can hope i got you laffin your first day

Welcome Again
Dick

[arveetek]

I've owned a 5.7L in the past....it's a great fuel economy motor, just lacks a bit of power. I had trouble keeping head gaskets in it. If I knew then what I know now, I could have fixed it and kept it running. Oh well, I swapped the 5.7L for my 6.2L, and never looked back.

Casey

[swervin ervin]

Personally, I would do it. I can tell you are wanting to so bad you can't stand it anyway. As for the rarity of the truck, so what? I don't know much about diesels and don't really care to. I'm a gas and carburetor man myself. If I was needing something to tow heavy loads with I would probably consider one but I don't have the need for it. I don't tow with my truck and surely don't plan on it. I can tell you are just wanting a good daily driver and I think you would be way ahead of the game with the conversion. I would do it and never look back. Just my nickels worth to you delima.

[Russell]

If that 5.7 diesel is still runnin, its done better than 99.9% of the rest of them, lol

Like mentioned, some of the race guys like them to convert them back to gas, and use the then solid bottom end for a huge horsepower engine.

Get yourself a 350, and TH350, you'll be pretty happy with that

[Tigger]

Oh yeah, i want a new motor bad. I was contemplating storage for this Frankenstein driveline before I got the balls to post this enquiry. Is this the first year for the olds-diesel attempt? Someone once told me the 78 Cadiliac had this Engineering brainstorm? First year products often fail.
When I was a machinist apprentice in the 1980's my boss had a new GM Diesel with consistent transmission troubles. Now that I have some Industrial Automation experience behind me, I know to stay away from first year production vehicles. Especially now that I own Charlene.
The man I bought the truck from suggested the same view about a 350 driveline combination. Since many Chevy's already have this from conception, I must deviate a wee bit.
Is the 4.3l vortex great on gas? Charlene's Character is not her Aerodynamics

Rob

[Destructo]

The only problem I see with a 4.3 V6 is you may be unhappy with the power. Probably do pretty good on fuel, but I think I would sacrifice a little fuel economy for the torque of the v8. You can build a fairly fuel efficient 350 with the right parts. Or if you put in a Vortec v8 you could probably get 17 mpg highway I would guess.

[Ziptar]

Originally Posted by Russell

If that 5.7 diesel is still runnin, its done better than 99.9% of the rest of them, lol

The one I bought runs, or at least it did, at least I heard it run over the phone, two weeks after I bought the guy called and told me he ran it out of fuel. i explained to him how to get it primed again, he called me a couple of days later and couldn't get it started. He knocked $50 of the price, and threw in some parts that he was going to keep.

When it showed up here the fuel system was taken apart, I won't be able to work on it until next week, I am sure I'll get it going pretty easily. I need to compression test it too.

[bojoe]

Putting in the 5.3 out of a suburban or newer truck would be a good deal. I guess it all depends what you want to do with the truck. If it is going to be a daily driver, do what you gut tells you to do. Original trucks can always be put back that way. It is not like whatever you do to it now can't be reversed in the future. If you wnat fuel economy go with a 4BT or 6BT Cummins engine. I know you don't like the diesel smell, but it would get you 20mpg if you drove and set it up correctly.

[Ziptar]

BoJoe is right....

Forget what anyone else thinks, do what you want.. After all, It's your truck.

I have had people tell me I was nuts wanting to put a Olds Diesel in a daily driver... I don't care, I wanted to give one a whirl.

One of these days I'll put a 4BT in a Chevy, I figure with the right rear end and a 700R4 in a 2WD 1/2 Ton a 4BT could possibly push 40 MPG... Best part is if you get one out of a Chevy P-30 Van they are a direct drop in and bolt up to a 2WD truck, they have Standard Chevy transmission setups on them for Auto and Stick.

I bought the Olds because I got the whole truck for 1/10th the going rate of a 4BT engine. I reaserched the Olds diesel a bunch over the last year and a half and felt comfortable taking the leap. looks like the prices for 4BT's might come down thought, frito-lay has hired out a company to auction off their old trucks on the web. It's called dovebid the current sale has a couple hundred 4BT trucks in it, and they've been selling for as cheap as $800, I haven't seen one sell for over $2000 yet. So maybe now that they are flooding the market 4BT's will come down in price. I would love to grab one but, have neother the $$$ or the space to bring a big old Step van home right now.

If you REALLY don't like Diesels but want better MPG Then Destructo's got the best Idea, a Vortec V8 will get you the best MPG especially if hooked to an O/D transmission. It'll be more work to install with all the electronics but, you'll get the best mileage.

Bottom line is it's your truck do what you want, Hell put a 4cyl Iron Duke in it if that floats your boat.

[_Dick_]

You'll guys picking on my little 4.3 LOL nope it domt spinn the back tires ,yes it pulls a 16 ft boat anywhere ,yes it will cruse the interrstate all day at 80 with the AC and get around 20 mpg .It was built to be a DD and it shows well

See you at the gas pumps
Joking with you"ll
Keep on Trucking

[Tigger]

The 5.3l is a good running engine and presently accessible to me. My friend wrote off the Body in his 99 Suburban recently and other than the leather interior, the Driveline is still Purring. The suburban is a heavy vehicle and the vortex did a good job in getting up to speed. Towed his 21ft. boat up north Fishing many times without grief whenever required. Unfortunately it is a four wheel drive and a modern transmission or conversion plate as mentioned in a previous link will need to be fabricated or purchased. A 5.3l Vortex married to a TH400?
I have a friend in the recycling business and I supplied a wish list for a Late Model truck. I was hoping the last Snow Storm would wound a New GMC/Chevy truck., and I might be able to buy something from an insurance co. which is of course going to be much more than I paid for Charlene.
The Suburban was replaced with a 2004 5.7 vortex and that is a sweet ride. Up ihere in the North we had a hard time finding an extended-cab with a 8 foot box. Apparently, few people are interested in a full box. Does nobody use their vehicles for work anymore?
Fuel economy is important, so I can Pilot this truck daily through the coming Summer and I believe ANY fuel injected G.M motor is more efficient than the Quadra-BOG carburetor
Thanks for the opinions, keep them coming.

Rob

[Russell]

I'd see if you can get that 5.3 Vortec engine!

You can most definitely mount an older transmission to it, if you feel the need TH400 would be the easiest in that aspect as well, as they don't need a kickdown cable like the rest of the transmissions do.

Personally, I'd get that 5.3, all the wiring, and electronics, then buy a 4l60e for the truck. The 5.3's computer will control the transmission. If you can get the whole truck cheaply, then yeah, you can get that 5.3 installed fairly cheaply too. You will need to get the PCM flashed, and that does cost a few hundred at this point in time. But as far as I am concerned, its well worth the effort

[Tigger]

Thanks for the technical info. I am pretty well versed on steel and alloy compositions, I know 4140SPS well. But, what is a 4l60e and the Long form of PCM, Programmable Cumputah Memory? or such?
I think I'm going feed my buddy some cold Molson's Soda the next time we hook up and see if I can help him out by removing his Suburban out of his way. With 22 years between vehicles, I am glad to hear I may use the original 70's trans with a 90's engine.


Rob

Imagination will often carry us to world's that never were. Without it we go nowhere.

[Russell]

Originally Posted by Tigger

Thanks for the technical info. I am pretty well versed on steel and alloy compositions, I know 4140SPS well. But, what is a 4l60e and the Long form of PCM, Programmable Cumputah Memory? or such?
I think I'm going feed my buddy some cold Molson's Soda the next time we hook up and see if I can help him out by removing his Suburban out of his way. With 22 years between vehicles, I am glad to hear I may use the original 70's trans with a 90's engine.


Rob

Imagination will often carry us to world's that never were. Without it we go nowhere.

Haha, and you've got me wondering what the heck a 4140SPS is, lol

4l60e is an electronically shifted version of the 700r4 transmission. Its far newer, and therefor much more reliable than the old 700r4s were.

PCM stands for Powertrain Control Module. Basically, a PCM controls both the engine and transmission, while an ECM (Electronic Control module) only controls an engine, or other system in the truck.

Those 5.3s are multi-port injected (injector for each cylinder) engines, and use sequential firing (every injector is fired independantly from the others) as compared to the old TPI multiport systems using batch firing (every injector is fired at the same time as the others, once every two engine strokes), so they are by nature way better on gas, and since each cylinder's injector is controlled by the ECM, each cylinder is tuned, not just the entire engine in general

You will need to get the PCM flashed to remove the vehicle anti-theft stuff, and have it work by itself (it works with other ECMs in the truck) without throwing codes all over the place. These engine swaps are getting pretty common, and as such, cheaper to do as well