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Old 10-02-2018, 12:13 PM   #351
1972RedNeck
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

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Originally Posted by 6BT 56 View Post
You are correct. The more I think abt it the more I'm quite happy with how everything sits on the original frame body wise. I think the route of my problem is that the 56 front springs are held at the rear. With shackle at front . Every other push pull steering truck is mounted at front of spring and shackle at rear. I think my push pull and the fact that the leaf is mounted at the back is my trouble . Just wondering if I should update to newer leaf springs and change mounts around or should I try crossover steering ?
While crossover steering is the way to go, I think your steering/handling problems come from the steering box and possible caster angle.

RedHead steering gear is the only way to go for a first gen Dodge box (any steering gear really).

What is you caster set at? You are using the Dodge D60 front, right? If so, I am willing to bet your caster angle is in the 1 to 2 range. Get it up to at least 4 if not 6 to 8.

Another important thing is to use Dana/Spicer parts only in the kingpins - On my current 1st gen Dodge, I rebuilt the kingpins with NAPA cones and springs - truck drove terrible. Finally bought OEM parts and it was much better.

Turns out the NAPA cones were way softer so they were grabbing and galling and wouldn't let the wheels "self steer".

As for the leaf spring setup, my '66 F250 is pined in the back, shackle (actually slipper) int he front. I have been known to regularly cruise at 90 to 100 MPH. Drives great.
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1966 F250 4X4 416
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Originally Posted by GASoline71 View Post
I once pulled an intake manifold for a cam swap... ended up with a full on drag car that ran in the 11's.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:01 PM   #352
Dieselwrencher
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

The OBS Fords (88-97) use the front shackle in the front and they drive ok. But it is a lot better when you put the shackle in the rear and even better when you put a longer leaf spring up front. Granted you won't get the coil spring ride quality of a 05 up, bu it is a big improvement.

If you go cross over, make sure to put a panhard or track bar on the front axle.
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1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread
1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

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Old 10-04-2018, 09:28 PM   #353
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

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Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher View Post
The OBS Fords (88-97) use the front shackle in the front and they drive ok. But it is a lot better when you put the shackle in the rear and even better when you put a longer leaf spring up front. Granted you won't get the coil spring ride quality of a 05 up, bu it is a big improvement.

If you go cross over, make sure to put a panhard or track bar on the front axle.
Ya I'd like to change front springs. I keep coming to the realization that if I buy new front springs, get some sort of perches and shackle mount money wise I'm close to buying a bunch of 4 link parts . Was thinking abt arms like this
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:32 PM   #354
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

You're going down a rabbit hole.....
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1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

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Old 11-03-2018, 10:36 PM   #355
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

Drum roll.... Decisions have been made . Lol. I'm going to mount the front springs the way gm mounts them on square body trucks . I think this will make my steering much happier . I may still switch to a y style steering set up. Can't go full crossover not enuf room . Also want to copy the electric wipers and the pedal set up that 57 olds used on his build . It needs injectors as well. Determined to make this thing daily drive able next summer . Oh ya needs a rad , and a better seat . Lol. Never stops does it .
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:32 PM   #356
Dieselwrencher
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

I know a guy who can get you some injectors......
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1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread
1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

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Old 11-08-2018, 03:59 PM   #357
1972RedNeck
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6BT 56 View Post
Drum roll.... Decisions have been made . Lol. I'm going to mount the front springs the way gm mounts them on square body trucks . I think this will make my steering much happier . I may still switch to a y style steering set up. Can't go full crossover not enuf room .
When your switching springs around, make sure you get your caster angle up to par - $10 says that's what's fighting you...

Is "Y" steering worth it over your current push pull setup? I have never been impressed with stiff axle vehicles that use the "Y" steering and have always seen a big improvement when switched to true crossover...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GASoline71 View Post
I once pulled an intake manifold for a cam swap... ended up with a full on drag car that ran in the 11's.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:59 PM   #358
Dieselwrencher
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

I've built many OBS Fords and they are the Y style and drive pretty nice. I haven't put any on a straight axle chevy though. I always just put cross over on them if I made the swap. I'm half tempted to put cross over on my 72 because the rear air ride affects the push pull steering system.
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1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread
1976 K30 CC SWB Build Thread

Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:52 PM   #359
1972RedNeck
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Re: My 56 6bt 4X4 build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher View Post
I've built many OBS Fords and they are the Y style and drive pretty nice. I haven't put any on a straight axle chevy though. I always just put cross over on them if I made the swap. I'm half tempted to put cross over on my 72 because the rear air ride affects the push pull steering system.
Yeah there is no denying that crossover is second to none (well, maybe rack and pinion).

As for the OBS Fords, it was just the twin i-beams that used the "inverted Y" steering which was a must as a solid tie rod would make the toe in change as the suspension moved. The F350's and F250's with Dana 60's were all true crossover and drove perfect.

Dodge on the other hand, used the "inverted Y" on the earlier second generations with a stiff axle - IMHO, this is one of the main reasons they have such a bad rap for death wobble and just terrible driving in general. Think about it - with the "Y" steering linkage, as the suspension moves up and down, the angle of the "Y" changes, thus changing the distance from end-to-end (i.e. your toe in). I have changed a couple second gens over to true cross over that had the "death wobble" and whatever else Dodges are know for and all the steering problems went away.

Sorry to beat the topic to death, but I have an extreme case of OCD when it comes to how a vehicle drives and handles. If you want it to drive perfect, you need about 5 things, in order of importance:

1) 5 minimum caster - if you have to cut your "C's" off and re-weld them, so be it. If you do, set it to 8.

2) Toe in - get a tow in gauge - a rack only sets static toe in - when you are driving, the toe in gets wider. With a toe in gauge, you can get it set so the wheels are truly parallel when moving even if you have a little play in your TRE or ball joints/kinpins

3)If you have a front steering stabilizer, take it off and throw it in the dump. They can cover some problems, but that is all they do - cover a problem. Fix what needs fixing.

4) Camber - since you have a first gen Dodge Dana 60, there is a good chance that one knuckle is welded on wrong and your camber is slightly off. Haven't found one angle to be preferred, as long as it has some and both sides are identical.

5) Tight bushings - if you have crossover, the track bar needs to be tight. With push pull, the non shackle end spring bushings need to be tight.


This is all simply what I have learned over my few short years of wrenching. I have been guilty of, and have watched others throw hundreds of dollars of new parts at a front axle trying to make a vehicle drive "right" thinking that a smidgen of play here might be causing me some trouble, or maybe stiff u-joint, or a loose steering box, etc.

If you do the five things I listed, your truck will drive great, even if it does have a little play in the TRE's or steering box.
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1966 F250 4X4 416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GASoline71 View Post
I once pulled an intake manifold for a cam swap... ended up with a full on drag car that ran in the 11's.
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