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Old 06-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #26
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

My front cover did not make contact with the button. My button measures nearly an inch so it's the biggest one available and it sits nearly flush with the sprocket edge so no loss there.

After much tossing around I finally decided not to spend more cash and just modify my cover to make it work. Beat the crap out of it with big hammer until it made contact with the button then slowly beat it back out until I managed to get the clearance to .006 on the dial with the cover and gasket torqued down.

I may yet do a new cover down the road if this one ends up making noise or causing timing fluctuations. My guess right now is that it will be fine. Moving on.




-klb
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:48 AM   #27
Mike C
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Did you use some sort of thrust bearing/washer on the cam gear? You may not have to, but on mine I ran the Summit billet 9 keyway double roller chain with Torrington bearing to protect the block. The 3/4" big block thrust button worked fine on that setup.

The Comp kit came with a cam sprocket that did not have bearing or bushing so I guess they don't think it required, but I felt better about long term reliability with it.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:49 PM   #28
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

My timing set from Comp didn't allow for a bushing or bearing between the cam sprocket and the block. I did quite a lot of reading on the subject and decided in the end that this setup should do OK without. That is, as long as I get the thrust clearance correct rather than just jamming the cam hard against the back stop with the front cover.
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:58 PM   #29
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Decided to drop the oil pan to replace the gasket...

Bad idea...

Not enough room to drop it all the way...

So now I own a 2 ton engine hoist!



-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:08 PM   #30
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Got the pan removed finally and found that most of the bolts had been way over tightened which has bent the pan up pretty bad. Can't imagine how this thing wasn't leaking far worse than it was. The worst of the damage measured 1/8 inch of bolt hole bending up toward the block due to over tight bolt. Most of the damaged bolt holes measured just under 1/8 inch.

Good thing I took it off!

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:18 PM   #31
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Some people seem to think that if tight is good enough, then REALLY tight is even better. Quite often that is when problems occur.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:37 PM   #32
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Progress...

I used the one piece fel-pro gasket, attached it to the pan with some plastic coated wire. Then got the pan up onto the block and just started two of the rear-most rail bolts. Climbed around to the top and situated the front gasket teets into the holes in the timing cover then secured the pan as tightly as possible against the gasket to hold in in place ( I used the wire again here ).

After making sure the gasket was properly in place along the rear main cap channel, each rail bolt was installed ( the wire was easily removed ) and then torqued in sequence beginning from the center working out toward the end caps. Only then would the two pan to front cover bolts reach. I torqued the rails to 60 in-lbs and the two cover bolts to 100 in-lbs.
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:49 PM   #33
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Before I locked down the pan, I went to check the cam thrust clearance one last time. There was none. The cam was being held tight against the rear stop by the timing cover. This! This after my having spent a load of time and effort to create .006 of cam thrust clearance with that cover torqued down. I have no idea how this happened?

That cover is now on the left-over parts pile. I replaced it with a Cloyes quick-button two piece cover. This thing has a built in button that is adjustable with the cover installed. Done.

Placed a head up on there to check P/V clearance...

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:08 PM   #34
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

No P/V issues so...

Got the heads on there and torqued down. No way I could have done this alone with the engine in the truck. Good friend of mine came by and helped me get them safely over the fenders and on the block. Thanks Tom!

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:41 AM   #35
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Adjusting these valves cold was an adventure. The rocker nut could be adjusted by hand down to zero lash and beyond. I could use my fingers to crank the rocker down and watch the plunger in the lifter just keep going down. If I wanted I could simply spin the rocker all the way to the bottom of the lifter I bet.

So, I had to decide to pick a spot and call it zero lash before the lifter starts getting depressed by the rocker bolt, then add my additional fractions of a turn and lock down the nut with the poly lock ( This while on the base circle ). Given these are roller lifters and the docco says no reason to pump-them-up, I'm just guessing at this first round of adjustment.

After the adjustment on all 16 and of course all the rotation and subsequent plunging of the push rods into the lifters ( dry ), those rockers whose lifters are on the base circle are loose now and well, just I'm not real happy about that! My thinking is that when the pressure comes up, those lifters will pump up and all that slack will be gone.

Any thoughts?

Moving forward...

BB is assembled and the headers installed. Should achieve startup today after we get the radiator installed, fans wired and the fuel lines plumbed up tight.

The headers fit real nice. Hedman 68198 for 67 BB Chevelle. Passenger side was the tightest as far as install and potential for interference, but the only issue was had to relocate the main battery lead to the starter to keep it off the tubes.

Driver side install was wide open and easy. The longer extension to the collector on this side meant the truck needed to be up higher on stands to gain a bit more clearance below but the header needed no help at all going up between the frame and engine into it's final resting spot. Plenty of room to install it without any issues or interference.

I think if a column shifter were in use for the transmission, this header might have issues with that. Mine is of the cable type so no worries there. The collector terminates about 9 inches from the transmission crossmember in my case on this truck so I don't have any issues there.

These headers sit right at frame level essentially so they are perfect for my lowered stance!

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:23 PM   #36
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Started it up today... No O2 sensor so it's running in open loop and very rich... but it's running!!! Tuesday I'll get it to the exhaust shop to get the noise down and start tuning it.

Here's the link to the video...

https://youtu.be/7W148nXt60A


-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:52 PM   #37
cruizin01
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

How do you like the 402/700r4 and 3.73 combo?

I have a mild 402/4l80e and a 3.08 that Im considering going to another gear.

You think the 1800 stall is right for you?

Build looks nice btw.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:43 PM   #38
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

It is the right combo for me in terms of off-the-line gear and highway cruising. The stall I have is not enough. This cam update has done a lot in the way of improving this truck. I'm still tuning so can't really update fully on the cam update and what it has done to this engine, but the BBC=>700r=>3.73 definitely makes for a great combination IMO.

EDIT: It's not all roses. IMO the weak point of the 700r is the gear ratio jump between 1st and 2nd...
... for comparison have a look at this little chart showing gear ratios for popular transmissions. Note the 700
... has a 1.44 difference between 1st and 2nd gear where the 350 and 400 have only 1.0.
Trans.....gear ratios 1/2/3/4/..
700r4.....3.06/1.62/1.00/0.68
th400.....2.48/1.48/1.00
th350.....2.52/1.52/1.00
powrg.....1.76/1.00

and for fun...

6L80E.....4.03/2.36/1.53/1.15/0.85/0.67
8L90E.....4.56/2.97/2.08/1.69/1.27/1.00/0.85/0.65
10LXX.....4.70/2.99/2.15/1.80/1.52/1.28/1.00/0.85/0.69/0.64

Hth,

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

Last edited by weq92f; 09-26-2018 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:34 PM   #39
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

.
Drove the truck open headers and with no O2 sensor to the exhaust shop on Tuesday morning. It was about a 6 mile trip on two lane black top back roads, across and onto one main 6 lane for a bit to the shop. The truck made it all the way there but it was super loud and just a choppy slow drive. I was worried about so many things including, because I couldn't hear it, the valve train flying apart because it was mal- adjusted!

Pulled up there just fine though and had the shop install the 02 bung in the appropriate spot, reduce the 3" flanges to my 2.5" pipes and install an H pipe behind that.

With that, I was able to hear that I've got one, maybe two tapping rockers that ~may~ need attention. Maybe, but overall that initial adjustment was pretty good! Also very apparent was a massive single cylinder exhaust leak at the head on the passenger side.

Unfortunately something else became immediately obvious, somewhere near the front of the engine a noise indicated contact of a worrisome sort. The sound was cyclic as if spinning and encountering more, then less 'resistance' over and over again and varying with engine RPM. High pitch and scratchy sort of grinding sound.

Slow and easy drive back to the shop...

Tried to pinpoint the sound using a couple tricks but was not successful so I removed the belt and fired it up....bamb! the sound is gone!!!

I was real worried that my button troubles were about to come back, I was going to find that the sound was the cam sprocket eating the block.

Only thing I can find that has any sound at all when I spin it is the water pump so I'm going to swap that out tomorrow and we shall see. The idler, tensioner, alt and ps pump seem OK to me.

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 09-27-2018, 03:55 PM   #40
cruizin01
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Quote:
Originally Posted by weq92f View Post
It is the right combo for me in terms of off-the-line gear and highway cruising. The stall I have is not enough. This cam update has done a lot in the way of improving this truck. I'm still tuning so can't really update fully on the cam update and what it has done to this engine, but the BBC=>700r=>3.73 definitely makes for a great combination IMO.

EDIT: It's not all roses. IMO the weak point of the 700r is the gear ratio jump between 1st and 2nd...
... for comparison have a look at this little chart showing gear ratios for popular transmissions. Note the 700
... has a 1.44 difference between 1st and 2nd gear where the 350 and 400 have only 1.0.
Trans.....gear ratios 1/2/3/4/..
700r4.....3.06/1.62/1.00/0.68
th400.....2.48/1.48/1.00
th350.....2.52/1.52/1.00
powrg.....1.76/1.00

and for fun...

6L80E.....4.03/2.36/1.53/1.15/0.85/0.67
8L90E.....4.56/2.97/2.08/1.69/1.27/1.00/0.85/0.65
10LXX.....4.70/2.99/2.15/1.80/1.52/1.28/1.00/0.85/0.69/0.64

Hth,

-klb
Thanks for your input. I think Ill look around the 2200-2400 rpm stall when I do mine. I don't really want to spend $1k so Ill probably look into a stock sized converter. I also don't know what cam is in my truck so its hard to judge whats needed.

I haven't put many miles on my build yet but the 3.08 and the 2.48 first gear makes for a long time before getting into second. Itll still bark the tires pretty nice though going into 2nd.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:45 PM   #41
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

.
It wasn't the water pump. It wasn't the tensioner pulley. So... only thing left was the idler. Replaced it and I was golden... until...( see below ).

I've now driven probably 150 to 250 miles under all sorts of roadway conditions in very mild weather. Today was the big voyage across the proverbial sea as I drove full A/C, windows up in traffic to the big show over at TMS in Ft. Worth put on by Good Guys Rod and Custom Association. Made it there with out any issue ( got some tappet noise and mayb a slight exhaust leak still and definitely and oil 'seepage' thing going on ). Along the way, I watched the dash gauge show less than 13 volts and over 200 temp when both the A/C fan and the radiator fans were on. This was while idling in stop and stop traffic.

This is when the A/C performance starts to wane and the heat soak begins to take its toll.

I've run the system to this point in test and observed 13.6 volts at the alternator and 13.3 volts at the battery all while the dash gauge was indicating less than 13 volts. Sp I was confident the system was still above 13 even though my gauge was not!

Without issue we made it through the registration process and ventured out onto the grounds at TMS, cruised around the area once, parked and sat down for a nice cold beverage. Noticed a bunch of square bodies! Noticed a bunch of 67-72! Goin' back tomorrow!

On the way home I got hit from behind.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...90#post8353490

It is not so bad I can't drive it, but it looks like crap! Going back to the show tomorrow anyway!

EDIT:
After I left the scene of the fender-bender ( bumper-bender, tailgate muncher ), the noise returned briefly. It was the same squeaky noise as before but only for a very short while, then it was gone again. So... not the idler either eh...

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold

Last edited by weq92f; 09-28-2018 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:22 AM   #42
cruizin01
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

That sucks! You have my kinda luck.
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:37 AM   #43
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Yeah, this build has been tough as it seem lots of stuff, one thing after another, has just been challenging from the start.

The squeaking returned with a vengeance Saturday at the event. I'm thinking it must be the belt now so I'm going to replace it with a "quiet belt" as suggested by at least one YouTube video:

....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEUe6uKxTv8 @about 5:30 in the vid

Goodyear Gatorback, the quiet belt!

If that doesn't help, ,then I'm looking at either:

o bearings in the pulley at the ps pump
o bearings in the pulley at the A/C compressor
o the bearings in the built in button in the Cloyes quick-button timing cover
o cam sprocket contacting something, maybe the block or the cover
o ??

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:06 PM   #44
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Was not able to find one of the 'quiet belt' offerings for my GM belt so I just got a replacement at autozone. Just like that the noise is gone! So now I have some spare parts ( spare belt, tensioner, idler and water pump! ).

This has been an adventure. My first roller cam. First retro-fit. First 3000 dollar plus top-end refresh that didn't include aluminum heads!

Was it worth it? Yeah, well... yes it was. The motor is now rev happy, way more of a beast than it was before and more fun to drive so that makes it worth while. When I get the chance to play with the tuning a bit and adjust the tranny a bit tighter and maybe get a slightly looser stall, then it will be even better!

Thanks for coming along.

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:41 PM   #45
cruizin01
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Were you running a stock cam previously?
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Old 10-02-2018, 06:28 PM   #46
weq92f
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Re: bbc retrofit roller update

Yes it was stock.

-klb
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67 C10 fleet fuel injected '70 402, 700r4, 3.73 posi
07 335 sport turbo 6sp
94 Trans Am GT LT1 6sp posi -- sold after 22yrs
99 540 sport V8 6sp -- sold
73 240z L24 4sp -- given to friend
68 C10 step 350/350 3.73 open -- sold
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