HVLP vs HTE Paint Guns?

[msg]

Just got back from PPG to buy some paint to finally shoot the interior of my 66 cab. The paint guru was there so I asked him what tip to use for the base and clear I was buying. He asked me what type of gun I had. I told him a Devilbiss Finish Line HVLP gun. He shook his head. He said that will be ok for the base but I will hate shooting clear with it. Shooting the roof in the cab with an HVLP will be a pain in general but with an hvlp gun there will be problems keeping it at the right angle to the panel and keeping good paint flow and having paint dribble out the top of the cap. I asked what he recommended. He said well I hate to keep running up a bill on you but there are guns I can sell you from $150 to $1000. I asked what is the $150 option that will make painting the clear better and make it easier in general in the cab. He showed me the Iawata AZ3 HTE 2. He didnt explain the difference between HVLP and HTE but I sure would like to know.

Can anyone tell me more about the difference between HTE and HVLP guns?

[mongocanfly]

you might look into devilbiss d-kups...or the 3m pps system....they'll spray upside down and at any angle
I just bought the d-kup system for my gun but ive not used it yet...
hvlp means high volume low pressure...
hte means high transfer efficiency...never used one so that's all I know

[sevt_chevelle]

Hmm, that Iwata is a HVLP.

Don't know that specific model but Iwata makes one of the finest guns on the market.

HVLP stands for High Volume Low Pressure

What that means is instead of using air pressure to operate the gun it uses sheer volume of air instead.
Picture a garden hose with a spray nozzle on the end. Pull back the handle fully and you get a powerful stream of water. Now you pull back the handle say half you get a nice mist of water.

A HVLP paint gun is like that nice mist of water, versus a conventional gun and that powerful stream.

HVLP saves paint because it runs on volume of air rather then force of that air blasting paint on the surface instead of misting it on.

If you have paint dribbling out of the cup it because the lid is loose.

A 1.3 or 1.4 tip is the standard of sizes for spraying base and clear.

[msg]

Thanks guys, I had bought the HVLP Devilbiss Finishline 4FLG four years ago and Ive been using it for epoxy primer and 2k so far. Its worked fine for me but I am curious about the HTE difference though.

[mongocanfly]

maybe martin, stomper, or Robert at mp&c will weigh in on it...im curious also...but ive got all the guns I need...

[Jaysonb]

I used a finishline 4 for years with decent results, you can certainly spend more on a paint gun, and get a better finish out of the gun with more expensive equipment, but I alway end up sanding and buffing, so a perfect finish out of the gun wasn't super important. Here are a few projects I used the finishline 4 on.

[msg]

Awesome work Jaysonb! Makes me feel even better about the gun. To the point about sanding and buffing I actually said to him that I thought that wet sand and buffing would be a definite final step and that the clear always has some finessing to be done afterwards. For a moment I felt stupid assuming that is a definite. Maybe the guns he had in mind would greatly lessen that process. He said yeah but the clear would shoot better out of a gun like the HTE than what I have. For $130-150 I might invest in a gun that truly would make a difference so before I forged ahead I thought Id check with the gurus here.

[BR3W CITY]

I just finished a '68 Firebird with a Devilbliss Finishline gun, which is a pretty standard HVLP. The difference between spraying color and clear is a matter of adjusting your spray pressure and travel speed, not a need for a different gun. (potentially tip size, but that will depend on what clear, and what paint you shot) I've shot clear with 1.3-1.5 without issue.

HTE guns are meant for VOC compliance, by increasing the amount of atomized paint TO the panel. Its kinda like fuel efficiency in a sense. HVLP's run ~60-70% transfer rates, meaning if you spray 10grams of paint, around 7 are hitting the panel and 3 are just atomized into the air.

HVLP's are under pressure in the reservoir, so even when you tilt them you should be able to maintain feed. Yes, its hard to go 90* up, but its workable. For spraying roof interiors, I usually put the fan tighter and turn the spray tip to an angle that lets me comfortably hold the gun.

For a few cars where we just needed paint/prime on the roof and were less concerned with the final finish (being covered by a headliner in that case). A traditional suction gun works just fine, but leaves a less refined finish.

[sprint_9]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

HVLP's are under pressure in the reservoir, so even when you tilt them you should be able to maintain feed.

Gravity or suction fed HVLP guns are not under pressure in the reservoir. They use gravity or suction to feed paint into the gun. Yes you can tilt them to a certain extent, but go to far and you either run the paint away from the inlet of the gun or if its full enough it will run out of the cup through the vent hole.

My recommendation would be that no matter which gun you choose, get a cup system as has been mentioned. They allow you to spray at any angle without any worries. All you have to do is fill the cup, put it on the gun, tip the gun upside down and spray to purge the air out of the cup. Once you have the air purged and material is spraying out your ready to go.

[BR3W CITY]

There has to be some level of pressure no? The lids on the reservoir likes to pop up when attaching the hose. Indicates pressure to me. Heck I've had an unsecured lid pop off when attaching the hose too.

Maybe my equipments just wonky. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Jaysonb]

I think that the finishline 4 is a very good value for the money, I would be pretty surprised if you could get somthing that worked any better for $150. I also like the fact that parts for the finishline are readily available, and pretty cheap. After about 4 or 5 years of pretty heavy use for a hobby painter I recently put a rebuild kit in my finishline 4, and now it sprays just as good as new. I started upgrading paint guns to try and make the sanding, and buffing process a little quicker, and I found that to get nice slick clear coat, hvlp is not the ticket. Most of the guns like for clear coat are "compliant", and not hvlp. My first upgrade was to a devilbiss tekna copper, and that gun works very nice for base, and clear, now I use a sata 5000 hvlp for base coat, and a sata 5000rp for clear coat, the 5000 hvlp puts metallic base coat down effortlessly, and the rp lays the clear out like glass. But I still use the finishline 4 on every project for epoxy, high build, and polyester primers. I agree that a disposal cup set up is the way to go, I started using the devilbiss dcup system, and it worked fine, but I ended up switching to the 3m pps system mainly because I can get it locally. The ability to paint in any orientation, and the ease of cleanup made it worth the extra expense to me.

[sprint_9]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

There has to be some level of pressure no? The lids on the reservoir likes to pop up when attaching the hose. Indicates pressure to me. Heck I've had an unsecured lid pop off when attaching the hose too.

Maybe my equipments just wonky. Wouldn't be the first time.

You shouldnt have air going back into the cup. Something to check, place any fluid in the cup, just enough to get a little up into the cup. Leave the cap off, hook up the air and then pull the trigger to just the first half of the pull, so only air no fluid. See if you have bubbles coming back into the cup. If you do you most likely have paint build up, debris, or damage to the seat between the gun and the nozzle, or the seal between the needle and nozzle is seeping a little.

[Tiger Joe]

I’m a huge fan of having a dedicated clear gun.

I spray base with a sata 5000 and clear with an iwata. I painted for years with just a devilbiss. I can say hands down I have so much less work to do with the iwata clear gun. Hell the last truck I painted I didn’t even rub out the cab it was that slick.

I agree- no pressure in the cup on an hvlp

[Foot Stomper]

Having sold 100's of paint guns over the years, the more you spend, the lighter they get, transfer efficiency increases, cleaning time is reduced, parts and service availability increases and a flatter finish can be achieved (but not taken for granted.... one still needs to know how to spray)

Devilbiss, Iawata and SATA are all good. However, don't kid yourself that a $100 Devilbiss is as good as an $800 SATA.

Some guys will claim that they can lay down a paint job with a $30 Harbor Freight POS, and they probably can, except they will spend more money on paint/primer, (color and primer) sanding and time cleaning and searching for (non existent) parts.

Cheers

p.s. HVLP guns should not have any pressure in the pot... ever... regardless of suction fed or gravity fed.

[72HuggerK20]

I got a box of 3m PPS cups, an adapter, and two hard cups and never looked back. They're hands-down worth the investment. The main reason I got them in the first place is because I picked up a used SATA 4000 rp for clear and a used 2000 HVLP digital for base and neither one came with a cup. The HVLP is awesome for base, but I won't even try it with clear. I have my 4000 rp set up with a 1.2 nozzle set and it's still basically a garden hose, but it lays it down like glass and I can actually get something done. I used the mac tools version of the Sharpe Finex 3000 before, and that was so slow that I didn't know if I could even finish a panel before the part I started on would start to dry. Best gun for the money for clear? I'd almost say the Devilbiss Plus GFG-670. I almost bought one but then the opportunity to buy the 4000 rp that I have came up and I bought it instead.