Mig welding wire

[KMC3420]

Looking for suggestions for .023 mig welding wire for welding in patch panels. I am looking for a wire that grinds easier than most. I have heard ESAB wire is good but not able to locate any. Also, do you have a website or resource to get the welding wire? Thanks.

[mongocanfly]

I've been buying my wire off Ebay from welding city...I get the er70s-6...but it's not esab...but I've had no issues welding or grinding

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

I've been buying my wire off Ebay from welding city...I get the er70s-6...but it's not esab...but I've had no issues welding or grinding

I have the 11 lb spool saved in E-Bay through welding city. Was just curious what everybody else has been running. I have seen a few brands that are highly recommended but I can’t find them easily. Thanks for the info.

I also have saved a 10 lb spool of Inefil Er70S-6. It is made in Italy where so many others are made in China.

[B. W.]

X2 on ER70S-6, don't like chinese but that's what I'm burning right now.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by B. W.

X2 on ER70S-6, don't like chinese but that's what I'm burning right now.

Thanks. ER70S-6 is all I have ever ran and it works great for me too. I have asked a few of the big time shops who do restorations. One shop said they use Lincoln wire.
I found Lincoln electric super arc 025 wire and it is made in Mexico.
I did find a brand called Firepower. It is labeled as made in Mexico also. My goal is to find a wire that grinds easier for planishing.

[B. W.]

Thanks for the info, I'd love to find some USA made wire.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by B. W.

Thanks for the info, I'd love to find some USA made wire.

That is what I initially searched for but no luck. I purchased a 10 lb. roll of inefil wire that’s made in Italy. I have read good things about it. I am going to get some sheet metal to see how it goes. MP&C gave me some pointers on how to keep the weld bead as small as possible regarding heat and wire speed.

[Lanman1972]

I have found when grinding welds it works best to use a cutoff type grinder with a 36 grit grinding wheel installed. You can concentrate grinding the weld not the good metal next to it.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by Lanman1972

I have found when grinding welds it works best to use a cutoff type grinder with a 36 grit grinding wheel installed. You can concentrate grinding the weld not the good metal next to it.

Thanks Lanman. I have an IRand 90 degree pneumatic die grinder that works pretty good. I use the edge of the cutoff disc to knock down the majority of the weld proud. I think my issue is laying down too big of a bead. I am going to practice using more heat and less trigger time while welding.

[StingRay]

I use 023 ESAB Easy Grind. More money but it's easier to grind, Stretch the weld seam and less likely to crack on a butt joint.

https://www.esab.ca/ca/en/products/f...easy-grind.cfm

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by StingRay

I use 023 ESAB Easy Grind. More money but it's easier to grind, Stretch the weld seam and less likely to crack on a butt joint.

https://www.esab.ca/ca/en/products/f...easy-grind.cfm

Thanks Stingray, I have a few local distributors I am going to contact. See if I can get my hands on some.

[MP&C]

Originally Posted by KMC3420

MP&C gave me some pointers on how to keep the weld bead as small as possible regarding heat and wire speed.

May as well add that info here for others that may be looking....

Originally Posted by MP&C

I have run ESAB ER70-S6, ER70-S7 (Spoolarc 87HP) and EZ-Grind. Of the three, I had best results with the -S7, and after that the EZ grind. The S7 has more manganese for better wetting, ie: flowout. Means it will give you a flatter weld for much less to grind. I don't think ESAB still makes it in .023 but I have seen it in .030, although 33 or 44 lb spools. If you are using a 11 lb spool machine, you would need to re-spool the wire.

The only other company I have seen selling the S7 is Blue Devil, but this is made in China and is questionable content, as is anything else from there.

My suggestion to you is to try to get what you're using now to flow better, and lay flatter. Do some practice coupons and increase your heat setting to get good penetration, then if any blowout, add more feed speed. Keep playing with adjustments, and what you are looking for is higher heat, and less time on the trigger. the longer you sit there the more the weld piles up, the more grinding. So play around and see what you can do with more heat, shorter elapsed time on the trigger pull and see if you can get less weld proud. Make sure you're getting full weld penetration, whatever you do.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by MP&C

May as well add that info here for others that may be looking....

Thank you Robert!

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by MP&C

May as well add that info here for others that may be looking....

Robert, is it ideal when planishing to grind the weld bead down prior to hammer/dolly or do I hammer/dolly the weld bead and grind down the bead as the last step? Here is a pic of where I’m at currently. Thanks.

[MP&C]

My preference is to planish before grinding.

So if we have a full penetration weld dot, with a small bit of proud on both sides, planishing in this state you can better isolate that your planishing efforts are on the weld only, and you can gauge the amount of planishing by how large the flat area on the weld dot becomes. Just like the consistency you're looking for with everything else, this helps to insure you are consistent in planishing from one weld dot to the next.

[44th Miss Inf]

I just ordered a 10lb roll of Inefil .023 off eBay, I paid about $7 more than I can get it locally in the Forney 2lb roll (TSC).

I don't deal with the local welding supply due the the owner's dishonesty so not sure on their price.
I need to buy another 80cf C25 bottle. I own a 330cf argon bottle that a place and hour away said would convert / fill with C25, but it's just to big of a bottle to handle anymore.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by 44th Miss Inf

I just ordered a 10lb roll of Inefil .023 off eBay, I paid about $7 more than I can get it locally in the Forney 2lb roll (TSC).

I don't deal with the local welding supply due the the owner's dishonesty so not sure on their price.
I need to buy another 80cf C25 bottle. I own a 330cf argon bottle that a place and hour away said would convert / fill with C25, but it's just to big of a bottle to handle anymore.

That is the exact wire being used in the above/below pictures and so far I like it a lot. It grinds super easy and has been great so far. I am unsure how “easy” the ESAB easy grind wire grinds off, however I can’t imagine it being much easier than the inefil wire. I did find the ESAB easy grind online but a 11 lb. roll was $107 to my door, which I cannot justify. Inefil is my new favorite for .023.

[trukman1]

Can the Infel wire be used on Miller 170/220V machine or is it only used on 120V welders? I've heard I should be using a 120V welder but the 220V has a higher duty cycle rating, Obviously I'm not an experienced welder. Just keep hearing from body shop guys I should have a 120V unit. Want to be sure before buying more wire, Thanks. Not trying to hijack this thread but others may have info to help more than just me especially if they are looking to purchase a unit. Biggest drawback I've found so far with 220 unit is having to have a HD extension cord and 230V outlet.120 is far more versatile for use anywhere. Thanks again.

[trukman1]

One more question this brought up...what is "planishing?" Also hear of "proud" when welding. What does that mean? Thanks for the education.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by trukman1

Can the Infel wire be used on Miller 170/220V machine or is it only used on 120V welders? I've heard I should be using a 120V welder but the 220V has a higher duty cycle rating, Obviously I'm not an experienced welder. Just keep hearing from body shop guys I should have a 120V unit. Want to be sure before buying more wire, Thanks. Not trying to hijack this thread but others may have info to help more than just me especially if they are looking to purchase a unit. Biggest drawback I've found so far with 220 unit is having to have a HD extension cord and 230V outlet.120 is far more versatile for use anywhere. Thanks again.

I am using a millermatic 211 which is a 110/220 machine, it has a dual plug. I always run it on 220 even when doing sheet metal as you dial it in on a test piece of metal the same thickness. Sheet metal being as thin as it is, you can use 110 as well with no worries of lack of penetration. The duty cycle isn’t too relevant on sheet metal as you aren’t running a continuous weld. You are on the trigger for half a second and moving around the sheet metal. When welding 1/4” metal that’s when duty cycle comes into play as your on the trigger for longer periods of time. Regarding the inefil wire or any wire it wouldn’t be voltage specific but for sheet metal you want 023 wire which is the thinnest wire. But for thicker metal you would want 035 wire as it fills faster.

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by trukman1

One more question this brought up...what is "planishing?" Also hear of "proud" when welding. What does that mean? Thanks for the education.

Planishing is effectively stretching a weld bead or “dot”. When welding sheet metal you want to just weld in one spot for half a second and skip around. This will produce a weld dot as seen in the above pictures. With any weld you have shrinking as the weld cools, when the cooling happens it pulls the surrounding metal and creates a valley. To planish you use the dolly on method and focus only on the weld dot to stretch the dot out, in doing this you are stretching the dot out and moving the surrounding metal back into it’s previous location. Weld proud is the height of the weld bead above the base metal, in the above pictures the weld bead/dot was above the sheet metal, that portion was ground down flush to the base metal to have the appearance of a seamless piece of metal, after planishing. Hope this helps and didn’t further confuse you.

[MP&C]

^^^

Well said!

[trukman1]

Originally Posted by KMC3420

Planishing is effectively stretching a weld bead or “dot”. When welding sheet metal you want to just weld in one spot for half a second and skip around. This will produce a weld dot as seen in the above pictures. With any weld you have shrinking as the weld cools, when the cooling happens it pulls the surrounding metal and creates a valley. To planish you use the dolly on method and focus only on the weld dot to stretch the dot out, in doing this you are stretching the dot out and moving the surrounding metal back into it’s previous location. Weld proud is the height of the weld bead above the base metal, in the above pictures the weld bead/dot was above the sheet metal, that portion was ground down flush to the base metal to have the appearance of a seamless piece of metal, after planishing. Hope this helps and didn’t further confuse you.

WOW! Thanks for explaining this to me. Makes perfect sense. It's great to have members to help those of us wanting to learn but not knowing where to get the knowledge. I appreciate it very much. I have lots of welding coming up when my son gets home from his deployment in July and, even though I've done a lot of welding on heavy industrial pipe (stick), I don't know anything about welding thin sheet meta body panels. Many thanks!

[mongocanfly]

The thing with thin sheetmetal is go slow..."like molasses in wintertime"...."so slow I can count the hairs on your hand"...get a copper backer..where you can use it will help prevent blowthrough...
Jump around your seam doing spotwelds..get your gaps as good as you can...when I did a series of tack welds I waited till I could put my hand on the weld before moving on..and be sure to hammer and dolley..

[KMC3420]

Originally Posted by trukman1

WOW! Thanks for explaining this to me. Makes perfect sense. It's great to have members to help those of us wanting to learn but not knowing where to get the knowledge. I appreciate it very much. I have lots of welding coming up when my son gets home from his deployment in July and, even though I've done a lot of welding on heavy industrial pipe (stick), I don't know anything about welding thin sheet meta body panels. Many thanks!

First of all, ensure your son knows that we are all thankful for his service and sacrifice. Don’t wait til your son gets home to practice, move forward with getting some scrap sheet metal, and clean the rust/paint off to shiny metal and begin with a tight fitting joint. Set your machine up for the 22 to 18 gauge thickness and perfect making a weld dot, look for the same size of HAZ(heat affected Zone) surrounding the weld dot. Essentially you should have the same weld proud on both sides of your sheet metal, front and back to ensure penetration is adequate. That will be the first step, then you can work on your planishing. Good luck my friend! I would not be myself if I didn’t t throw this link up, but MP&C is a great guy and his knowledge has helped me tons. Check out the below link for a visual of welding sheet metal the correct way.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...182565&page=48