T5 T-5 transmission to 235 inline or V8 with 10 spline the easy way

[NEWFISHER]

The 3 speed in the 46 burb was killing me and couldnt wait any longer for some time to do the ls swap so I pulled the 3 speed and tossed in a T5. I'm running a 55 235 and rear axle for now. There are a hundred threads on a thousand boards how to do this and it really is about a half day of work once you have all the pieces. The T5 I used was an electric one. Im going to run a 4l60 later so getting a TransX box to covert elect signal to mechanical cable drive speedo was just another needed item. The T5 is 3 inches longer than the 3speed so have the driveline shortened ahead of time. I ordered a jeep input shaft with 10 splines ( p/n 1351-085-008) and shortened the tip with a bevel and shortened the throw out bearing collar to the same distance as the 3 speed one. Measured the shifter hole and a 3 inch hole saw did the trick. Trimmed the carpet and now need to fill the old hole with a cup holder or have new carpet cut and bound. I pulled the o.e. crossmember and re used it, just slid it back. A flat piece of steel welded to the front will capture the T5 mounting holes. Slid the trans in and fits like a glove. I had to modify the train handle ebrake that runs through the floor in the 46 but 47-72 guys wont have an issue. This swap will work on any 10 spline 1" od input shaft GM clutch equipped truck. All inliners and most V8's in the early years from what I am finding. The shaft was $70 shipped and I got to keep my newer clutch stuff.

[NEWFISHER]

Shifter location

[geezer#99]

Good info!!
How's the 235 like the o/d?

[NEWFISHER]

Soooooooo much better. When you hear guys say " the best mod ive done" they arent kidding. Shifts much smoother. Tighter gear ratio, quiet and overdrive is perfect with 3:42s and 225/75/15 or a 27" tall tire. 1st gear is identical and it just shifts better and quicker through all gears. I didnt have time to finish the trans x box so I dont have a speedo but can tell that freeway speeds are much higher and easier to get to. I would say 5th geat holds 65 really well with just tip in throttle. Once the speedo is up and running im going to see how efficient the single toilet carb is with a 5 speed. Ran all over the county and burned a half tank. Stopped home for a shower and off to Sonic

[nvrdone]

Sounds like a good move. if you have a smart phone, find an ap called drive. It has a gps speed monitoring device which pings when you exceed the posted speed. It displays posted speed and actual speed. There's a lot more that I haven't figured out yet

[88Ironduke]

I'm a complete novice here where transmissions are involved with swapping parts. Was there any special tools required for the input shaft swap? For the shortening did a dremal + cut off wheel suffice for surgical cuts. I would love a 5 speed gear box behind my 250 for the exact reasons you described. Nice write up and thanks for taking the time post it.

88Ironduke

[NEWFISHER]

88ironduke
A 1/2 socket and snap ring pliers will change the shaft from the front. I used a 3 inch cut off wheel to cut both pieces. I pulled the 4 bolts that hold the throw out bearing sleeve and cut it off the trans to avoid nicking the shaft. I held the grinder on angle and spun the shaft to get a uniform taper. Everything else is just basic nuts and bolts. I measured 2 or 3 times to cut the hole in the floor for the new shifter location from the bottom then trimmed the back of the pad and the carpet with a razor. The conversion really is amazingly simple and I definately spent 4x the amount of time reading about it than it actually took to do the job.

[jjzepplin]

Nice write up. How durable is the T5? Did the drive shaft yoke need any mods?

[Softpatch]

Very nice ...
Dumb question were did the trans come out of S-10.? Camaro.?
What you have to give for it.?
.

[NEWFISHER]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

Nice write up. How durable is the T5? Did the drive shaft yoke need any mods?

They used them in S10s Camaros Jeep cjs and cherokees. Not a high hp trans. A T56 Is a better choice for burnoffs.

I grabbed the driveshaft from the donor assuming it was needed. 27 spline just like the old one. They both fit.

[NEWFISHER]

Originally Posted by Softpatch

Very nice ...
Dumb question were did the trans come out of S-10.? Camaro.?
What you have to give for it.?
.

The camaro ones are the better gear clusters and can be swapped into the s10 housings for better shifter position out of the top case. That was my plan with a couple I have. This one was free and ready to go. $250 is the going rate on a mechanical tail shaft one out here. Giving away theae electro ones as you need to spend more to make them mechanical spedo than they are worth.

[jjzepplin]

Originally Posted by NEWFISHER

They used them in S10s Camaros Jeep cjs and cherokees. Not a high hp trans. A T56 Is a better choice for burnoffs.

I grabbed the driveshaft from the donor assuming it was needed. 27 spline just like the old one. They both fit.

So I don't know anything about these transmissions. Enlighten me if you will. I would guess the trans you acquire must be from a 4.3 setup? Or do the bell housings interchange? Would one hold up behind a worn 307? I have a Saginaw 4 speed now (rebuilt) but you got me thinking.

[Bigdav160]

The T5 doesn't have an integrated bell housing. They were used behind 6 and 8 cylinder engines from GM, Ford, Nissan, Jeep etc......

The can take moderate abuse but don't like big cube torquey engines.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

I have put them behind 350,s & never have blown one. I drive like an old man though which I am. Check the numbers on the one you want to use. Some only have an .86 o-drive. You would not gain much as far as highway gearing but still have the advantage of a good 5 speed floor shifting.

[NEWFISHER]

Mine was from a 4cyl S10 and as biggave160 mentioned, its just the trans box you want...not the bell hsng. You leave your clutch assembled within your bell housing and just unbolt the 4 mounting bolts of the trans portion and slide it out. Drill the 4 mounting holes in the aluminum T5 ( its like butter) and swap the input shaft (10 min) and slide it in. It really is that easy. Unbolting the driveline, moving the crossmember ( some people dont even use a crossmember on the aluminum T5) and cutting the new hole in the floor for the shifter took longer than swapping the trans.

[jjzepplin]

So you have to drill out the main mounting holes?

[Lugnutz65]

Newfisher,
I hope you don't mind me joining this thread. It's right up my alley!

I am in the middle of my T5 installation and I invite everyone to visit my BLOG where I have a T5 section that can help answer many questions people have.

Installing an S10 T5:
Many folks who install an S10 T5 in their older truck choose to use an adapter plate. The adapter plate is helpful, but is not essential. The adapter plate acts as a spacer between the T5 and the bell housing. With an adapter plate, the S10 T5 will not need any modification. However, since an S10 T5 has a 14 spline input shaft, it will require the installation of a new 14 spline clutch disc (1984 S10 clutch disc is 14 spline). The most desirable S10 T5 transmissions have a 0.72 OD gear and are usually found in trucks with a V6 engine.

An S10 T5 can be modified to accept a Jeep T5 input shaft. The swap is simple and uses a new Jeep input shaft - this is what Newfisher did. The Jeep swap accomplishes 2 things - it allows the truck to retain the original 10 spline clutch and pressure plate AND it eliminates the need for an adapter plate.

Installing a Camaro T5:
The V6 Camaro and V8 Camaro T5 transmissions do NOT need adapter plates. However, the Camaro T5 has a shifter position that comes out beneath the bench seat. Folks who choose a Camaro T5 usually choose to change the shifter position by swapping in an S10 tail housing and case cover. That way the shifter comes up through the floor in front of the bench seat like it should. Changing the shifter position by using the S10 parts is not difficult.

Don't let the "World Class" and "non-World Class" issue frustrate you. The differences are minor if you are building a daily driver with a standard L6 or stock 350 V8 and plan to drive like normal people. I have rebuilt a V8 Camaro NWC T5 and it's not difficult. The NWC rebuild kits are affordable.

Lastly, if you shop around for a T5, don't buy one with a FORD case pattern. It will not bolt to your Muncie pattern bell. Yes, GM actually used T5 transmissions with a case that had a FORD bolt pattern from 1993 and up in Camaros/Firebirds and 1994 and up S10 trucks.

[NEWFISHER]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

So you have to drill out the main mounting holes?

Yes. The tabs, ears or mounting bosses that have a 12mm hole need a 1/2 inch drill bit pushed through them. Its aluminum , soft and the bit literally falls through the hole. You could do it by hand by holding the bit and twisting kt through the hole.

Thanks lugnutz, Ive followed your blog and slide show. I took a different approach to installing the front shaft. Instead of top plate removal, i went through the front with the 4 bolts and the snap ring.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by NEWFISHER

Yes. The tabs, ears or mounting bosses that have a 12mm hole need a 1/2 inch drill bit pushed through them. Its aluminum , soft and the bit literally falls through the hole. You could do it by hand by holding the bit and twisting it through the hole.

By the way - NICE JOB on the T5 upgrade Newfisher! You made the mods that I would recommend to anyone considering an S10 T5.

Here's a photo of me drilling my T5 with a 1/2" bit. Be GENTLE! It cuts EASY!!

[88Ironduke]

This an awesome thread. For those of (me specifically) who are drooling at the thought of T5 in our trucks I guess the caveat is the swapping of input shafts. Has anyone taken a couple of pictures of the process? The scary part of the swap is the potential for snap rings breaking, fire, sky's falling, world damnation and T5 transmissions that I may destroy out stupidity for not asking.... Is it really a 10 minute job? Thanks.

88Ironduke

[NEWFISHER]

I didnt take a pic of the T5 ( greasey gloves, phone in pocket , happened so fast that it was silly) but I just went out and took the 4 bolts off the throw out bearing collar of the 3 speed ( the same as the T5 and probably 4 speeds) , smacked the sides lightly with a hammer to disrupt the paper gasket and slid it off. I rotated the shaft to show the circlip holding the shaft and front bearing in place. Spread the clip and pull. Install a new bearing or press off/on the old one onto the jeep shaft and install. I read that run out should be 0.000 or pre loaded at 0.002 and mine was tight when installed with zero in and out play. It literally took me longer to type this on my phone than it did to swap the shaft. I was like you though, full of unanswered questions. It really is the easiest and best mod. You will scratch your head when you are done and then pay someone to change your oil because that is more difficult than this swap! Lol

[Lugnutz65]

Newfisher,
You have me scratching my head. There is no C clip at the input shaft bearing retainer on a T5. You said you installed a new Jeep input shaft on your T5. The T5 input shaft (Jeep or S10 or Camaro) has a tapered input bearing and race, 15 loose roller bearings inside the case end of the input shaft, and a flat needle bearing and flat race where it butts up against the output shaft.

What parts/pieces did you install onto the S10 T5 to make this conversion? I assume you used or reused some of the above mentioned T5 parts from the S10.

[NEWFISHER]

Mine looked just like the 3 speed but instead of balls, it had rollers. I pushed a new bearing onto the Jeep shaft and installed it. I have read that you may need to "shim" the input shaft, but not having any shims, I installed it and it "felt" good.
The 3 speed also has a paper gasket and the T5 had GMS type silicone sealant.

Edit:

Behind the T5 input shaft aka the jeep shaft ( same thing ) there are non tapered roller bearings ( not caged ) a wafer bearing and a shim or shims ( depending on how much end play the shaft has). I did not take pictures of mine apart as I was flying through the install and more curious and cautious than photogenic

Lugnutz65 has some great photos of it apart that I will post here..
wont let me post on this page. see page 2 for these pics

[Lugnutz65]

That makes me very very worried.

[NEWFISHER]

Ran a tank through it yesterday and it's quiet, loves the freeway now and doesn't have me wearing leg gaurds at speeds over 55 mph.