58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys... Had a little tweak on the very front 10 inches of the frame. I think something hit the front bumper somewhere in its life. Kind of made a DIY frame puller. Worked good. Put a new cross-member at the front and two temporary midway, then cut out the main front CM. Ready to start measuring for the Boxing plates. Measure, measure, measure....

[ChuckDriver]

Nice work!

[Kim57]

Nice fix on the frame.
Kim

[RockinKees]

Nice Fix!!

[lexteak]

Trying this week to get the boxing plates figured out. Kind of underestimated the "some assembly required" warnings.

The boxing plates position is critical for the exact position of the IFS front cross-member. They have to be at an exact width so the Flat Out member fits correctly. The frame rails have a lot going on right where they mount. The top of the c-channel tapers in and ends up to narrow where it needs to mount. The bottom is wider, so that is just a trimming process.

Its such a little bit to adjust on the top it seems impossible to patch. I think I need to cut a strip and put it underneath the top rail so it has some strength. Then I can attach the boxing plates to that new strip. In the morning I'll cut some strips and see if I can get it welded up.

My pics below show the straight edge where the frame needs to be. You can see the variance in the width. I tried to put the yellow ruler underneath so you can see how the gap changes.

[Nut Case]

Lex

Just a couple of thoughts, I would check to make sure that the top & bottom of the C-channel is equal to each other. Next check to see it the long vertical portion of the C-channel is not out of plumb. To adjust the vertical on the C-channel take a 4' 2X4, then make 2 2' smaller 2X4's, mark them at their center ( place them 1' up from the bottom of the 4' leg and 1' below the 4' leg on either side) then nail the bee jeepers out of these two 2X4's. Now you can put this tool over the C-channel and twist it any way that is necessary to get it vertical. You'll need a helper, tack some scrape between the frame rails to help them stay in proper alignment. then attack the boxing plates

I'm planning to fully box my frame before installing the IFS IRS and cross braces as necessary. Then mark where you can make holes in the boxing plates to reduce weight and give access to the C-channel, then take a 3" hole saw, kerf the boxing plate, then take a 1/8 drill bit and perforate the kerf with as many holes as you think is necessary thus, making the final drilling with the 3" hole saw easier and faster.

I'm shooting to get my build thread started before the year is out.

Just some ideas.

FYI your solution for the C-4 IRS is right on great work.

Keep on Keepin on. Nut Case

[lexteak]

Thanks NC. Great idea in the 2x4 alignment. I'm not sure whether to leave the boxing plates solid or hole them out. The access is nice when you can get inside.

I must have 200 holes in the frame. If I leave the sides solid I would want to fill most of those to keep the junk out. Maybe leave a couple on the bottom so the water can get out.

Going to head to the garage now. I'll post some pics sunday night if I make some meaningful progress.

Thanks for the ideas.

[Az. Hank]

Glad you posted that info about the rear half shafts angling a little forward. I was wondering the same thing and could not find that info. anywhere.

[lexteak]

Hank the half shafts end up pointing slightly to the rear. That is for the same reason, to keep the bearings happy. The problem with setting this up is confusing the CL in the instructions. They indicate measuring back 36 1/2 from the rear of the frame. That is supposed to be the axle CL. But really that is the CL of the wheel hub. So if you set the 1/2 shaft where it comes out of the diff at that 36.5, then when you mount the dog bone bracket, the axle is angled forward. At that angle the rear control arm is not centered in the bushings. Youi can tell its not correct.

You must set the wheel hubs at 36.5. That will put the diff forward of thatb position. I took a pic of mine at its final resting point. My laser level is on the CL at 36.5. You can see how far forward the 1/2 shafts are at the diff. Hopefully you can see the slight backward angle of the shafts.

If you need an exact measurement of that angle let me know and I can get it for you.

[lexteak]

I also got the IFS figured out. All the changing angles of the frame up front were the problem. I cut the frame back a little bit so it was straight. I welded a section of tube under the existing frame so everything is straight.

I used part of a 2x4 tubing, so it had the rounded corner profile to fit exactly into the existing frame. I'm a tiny bit narrow, but that was my plan so I can trim just a bit and get the boxing plates exactly at 29 5/8 , the width of the IFS cross-member. Still have to trim the bottom frame rail.

Some pics of the progress.

[lexteak]

few more pics.

[lexteak]

Cut out the steering stamp on the left side of the frame. As always...Measure twice, grind for an hour.

[Kim57]

Nice work.
Kim

[Az. Hank]

Ahh, got it thanks.

[Az. Hank]

Ahh, got it thanks.

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys.

Trying to get an idea of where to set the front cross-member. Took some measurements off my other truck and set up the front fender on my engine lift. Used an old tire/rim I had that is real close to the size of tire I plan on running.

I set the fender at the stock height and put the wheel at stock location. Them lowered it down to my ride height and it looks like I need 3/4 movement to the front.

Its tricky, If you change the rake a little bit it makes the measurement different. Seems as you drop the front and raise the back it opens up the rear of the fender and changes the look. I think my 3/4 is close. I still plan on just tacking everything until I get it all together, but I'm taking a shot at getting it right the first time.

A pic of my mock-up.

[Az. Hank]

That looks right on the money

[Kim57]

Looks good to me.
Kim

[lexteak]

A little more progress. got the boxing plates tacked in. still a lot of trimming and welding 2 do. test fit the front CM. Going to tack it in and put on some tin and see how it looks.

[Kim57]

Looks good.
Kim

[2tractors]

Wish I had seen your c4 build earlier as my front fo eng. is already in my 57swb. Also had the same thing with the frame rail width and used a set of digital calipers from outside of frame to inside of cross member. My cab is still on and using 17 inch rims so my wheel cut from plywood came out 5/8 forward of suggested 27 1/2 from front. Most of these old trucks have pushed or hit something and the front is never the same on both sides so i used measurements from points under the cab. Your pointers for the back are an eye opener! Keep posting.

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys. I'll get some tin on the next week or so and see how we line up.
I'll post some pics then. Sorry not responding to your posts individually, but I've been watching all of your builds closely. Very inspiring.

[Pzary3233]

Very intrigued by your build can't wait to see your next posts

[daveshilling]

Any updates??

[lexteak]

Sorry, I got a big project last winter and had to hold off on the build. One more little project I hope to finish this weekend and its back to the 58 project. I'll post again as soon as I get restarted. Thanks