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Old 05-11-2018, 08:35 AM   #1
64stpside
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Do I need a differant starter?

I got a 1978 305 out of a g10 van in my 64, I used the original 1964 manual trans bell housing for my s10 5 spd swap. I'm using the original starter with the 3 mounting holes (mounts to bell housing). I installed a new 168 tooth fly wheel during the t5 swap. After the t5 swap, there's been this bellish tone with a very, very slight grinding sound when starting, though it's always started(probably been started 20-30 times sense the t5 swap). Yesterday the starter engaged but wouldn't turn the motor over, just make bad noise. I had to turn the flywheel with a prybar slightly to get it to start. The teeth on the flywheel have no damage. I'm wondering if I should ditch the 1964 starter and use a 1978 starter that bolts to the block instead of the bell housing. I can't shim the 64 starter back, if that's a recommendation as I'm very close to the header already. Both the 64 and 78 starters have 9 teeth.
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:22 AM   #2
Captainfab
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

You can not us a block mounted starter with that bellhousing unless you cut away the bellhousing for clearance for the starter. I've never had any grinding or alignment issues with the bellhousing mounted starter. If this issue was not present with the original flywheel, it is possible that there is an issue with your 'new' flywheel.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:09 AM   #3
64stpside
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
You can not us a block mounted starter with that bellhousing unless you cut away the bellhousing for clearance for the starter. I've never had any grinding or alignment issues with the bellhousing mounted starter.
Glad i haven't bought a block mount starter yet. This truck has been sitting/being worked on for 2 yrs so im just now starting to drive it. The starter is what was on it when i got it. After talking with the guys at work, I think i got a bad starter bendix as that's a symptom of a failing starter.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:59 PM   #4
franken
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

I have 2 vehicles w/ that starter and have had good luck swapping remans in. I used to take them apart and play, but getting old and lazy. It could be a bit of a pain to get a reman but try the normal part for your truck. Or play with it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:19 PM   #5
MikeN
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

I guess I'm confused. I thought the original 64 flywheels were all the smaller, 153-tooth units. If there is a bell housing mounted starter available that works with a 168-tooth flywheel, that's news to me as well. But maybe I am just remembering wrong.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:57 PM   #6
Cris
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

Mike:

I believe all 63-66 trucks received the 168 tooth flywheel. (Passenger cars may have received the smaller 153 tooth flywheel.)

Our trucks use a 3815891 bellhousing which is designed for the 168 tooth flywheel.

https://tracyvette.com/bellhousings.html

I can confirm this part number as it was/is on my 63. (The tranny has to be out to see these numbers.)

I'm not certain if the clutch sizes varied on our truck, but any clutch designed with the 168 tooth flywheel pattern will bolt up.

I'm knee deep in a T5 swap myself so I've been digging around this stuff a bit!
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:34 AM   #7
64stpside
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainfab View Post
You can not us a block mounted starter with that bellhousing unless you cut away the bellhousing for clearance for the starter.
Actually,that not true..... I put a starter from a mid 90s v8 on it with no cutting. Got some new starter bolts bolts and it works like a dream, here's what happened. I got a reman like what was in the truck from rock auto and had fitment issues ( wouldn't go into the bell housing). After taking that reman back out, I got to looking and just couldn't understand what was in the way as far as using a block mounted starter. A guy at work had gave me a starter for another project a while back and I still had it, so I figured I had nothing to loose. It bolted right up with absolutely no resistance. I don't know if you thought I might be using a different bell housing?? When I did my T5 swap I did not have to have an adapter ring to center the trans in the bell housing, my trans was a perfect fit, not sure if that tells you what I got Here's some pics:
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:17 PM   #8
Captainfab
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

Well apparently that newer smaller diameter starter is small enough to not hit the bellhousing. I have never seen a block mounted starter work with the early crossmember mounted cast iron bellhousing without cutting away part of the bellhousing. I stand corrected.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:44 AM   #9
TxCajun
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Re: Do I need a differant starter?

My truck is a bit of a Frankenstein of different parts, and I discovered that the standard Chevy starters would not fit the combination of six cylinder engine, 10.4" clutch, 153T flywheel, and truck bellhousing. (Previous owner had "solved" the problem by breaking off part of the bell housing casting ear.) For a solution with a non-modified bell housing, I decided to go with a mini gear reduction starter which fits and mounts to the block. These starters are smaller and might also help with your exhaust header clearance problem. I got my starter from JEGS but Summit has them also; paid about $120.
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