Where to start on this blasted cab?

[msg]

Been waiting a long time to get to this, but I have finally gotten my cab blasted and delivered and I knew it was going to be alot of work with my MIG. But whats the right steps to take to get it done?

Here is what it looks like, both driver and passenger sides are in the same shape.












I have patch panels for the floor front side, rocker panels and cab corners so far.

QUESTIONS

1. Should I paint the epoxy primer that I have been using on the other panels and frame, before doing the repairs? Its bare metal; now so Im concerned about potential rust although its stored in a conditioned garage. But Im also concerned about having sprayed the primer and after all repairs are made having to re sand w 80 grit to get the next primer coat going, cause Im pretty sure the 6 day window I would have to recoat without sanding/scuffing would be long gone at the pace I work. I'm assuming it's best to paint the primer and just sand/scuff later to get the next coat but wanted to get your opinions.
2. Where to make the first repair, then second, third...etc.? Is there an order I should go in?
3. How to make the repairs without causing problems? Structurally, ill have to take sections away and I would think it might throw things out of alignment right?

Any tips/tricks you guys have for getting this done right would be appreciated.

[3drburb]

I hope you get some experts to answer your questions.
I would clean the metal and prime it. Then add some braces inside of it (top to bottom, side to side) sand off the primer where you need to weld.
Btw if patch panels are larger than you rusted area I personally would cut down the new panels rather than cut off good metal. I probably would start with the rockers.
This is a perfect post for bodywork and paint section.

[KVB]

I am in the same rusted boat as you. I started on the passenger side as a learning ground, if I made errors, i would learn from that side and not see them everytime i get in the truck.

I drilled the welds that hold the rocker in place. cut out the rusted floor, and the kick panel, welded in new metal.

I think i need to deal with the cab corner next, then put the rocker back in. Grind stuff some and do the body work.

Gonna follow along on this one.

Good luck

[vince1]

I overlapped some of the panels. I think it would have been better to cut to fit and then butt weld them. I don't know if it is possible but like you say it would be nice to have a way of jigging the panels for proper alignment. BTW yours is not so bad compared to some.

[Vinceg]

You have some work ahead of you for sure. I couldn't agree with 3drburb more. Get some epoxy primer on there to protect the blasted metal your not cutting out. Then make sure to brace your cab especally if your doing inner and outter rockers. I posted a reply (72 something or other I cant remember off the top of my head) under the paint and body section for my repair on my 66. It is more of a novel then a post. It was my first time attempting anything like this and I'm still not where I want to be with my cab but it is coming along. If you read my other reply under paint and body and have more questions I'll be more than happy to answer. Wish I'd have asked like you before I started but hey whats learning without making mistakes anyway!Lol! looks like your in the same boat as most of us. I'll be keeping an eye on this one as well to see what some more seasoned guys say.
good luck.

[LT1 Burb]

The first thing you need to do is pop those rockers off, then start. I have a heated garage and my sandblasted hood has been in there for a year and has no rust on it. To me it is a waste of time prime ring and then grinding it off.

[slorio]

I agree with LT1 Burb. I used phosphoric acid on mine until I was ready to prime. Phosphoric acid is applied with a spray bottle, scuffed with a pad and then wiped with a paper towel. Once you apply phosphoric acid, it keeps metal from rusting as long as the cab doesn't get wet. The only thing you need to decide with using phosphoric acid is what brand/type of primer you will be applying afterward. Some primers have phosphoric acid in them already. The general rule is only one application of phosphoric acid, thus if you do what I am recommending, you can't use a primer that has phosphoric acid as well. I use epoxy primer that is called Kirker Enduro that doesn't have phosphoric acid. When I am ready to prime, I scuff, clean and use a wax and grease remover, then shoot the primer.

Hope that helps.
Regards,
Steve
New Orleans

[60chevyjim]

it depends on how damp it gets where his cab is stored and what kind of garage he has .
I have a un insulated un heated metal building with a cement floor and when it rains a lot everything metal gets condensation on it in my garage .
so I cant leave that much bare metal without everything getting rusty .
and then you get the people that have to touch bare metal ,
and then you have rusty hand prints too ..
so I prime everything that is not getting replaced to avoid all that extra work.

[msg]

Originally Posted by 3drburb

I personally would cut down the new panels rather than cut off good metal. I probably would start with the rockers.
This is a perfect post for bodywork and paint section.

Yeah Im a fan of keeping what in good shape untouched, so as long as it doesnt create a problem cutting out the bad section and trying to fit the patch thats all zig zagged and hard to tack and refit I will definitely go that route. And now that you mention it I wonder if the moderator can swap locations of this post to paint and bodywork at this point?

Originally Posted by KVB

I am in the same rusted boat as you. I started on the passenger side as a learning ground, if I made errors, i would learn from that side and not see them everytime i get in the truck.

Gonna follow along on this one.

Good luck

Thanks for the input and the company, the more the merrier!

Originally Posted by vince1

I overlapped some of the panels. I think it would have been better to cut to fit and then butt weld them. I don't know if it is possible but like you say it would be nice to have a way of jigging the panels for proper alignment. BTW yours is not so bad compared to some.

I have been making patches on fenders and the bed side panels and I do like to butt weld them and in the end it just is easier than overlapping. Yeah Ive seen worse but not had to fix it before

Originally Posted by Vinceg

Get some epoxy primer on there to protect the blasted metal your not cutting out. Then make sure to brace your cab especally if your doing inner and outter rockers.

Thanks Vince, Ill look around for you post and check out your novel.

Thanks also to LT1Burb, Slorio and 60ChevyJim for replying!
My garage is insulated and I do run a dehumidifier, so Im leaning towards waiting to degrease and epoxy primer til after I get the repairs made. I'll keep an eye on rust and always have my nitrile gloves on to keep from contaminating the bare metal.

The paint I chose is from Southern Polyurethane Inc, (SPI) and have had to take some parts that some jerk at the blasters didnt use nitrile gloves and their handprints got all over it. So after talking with the tech line at SPI they recommend using Ospho for rust and that it works best with their products. The pain though is that to neutralize Ospho you have to use water dry off the metal, but it still flash rusts a bit and it freaks me out. They sell a wax and grease remover that I also use after the ospho (when needed). So far following their directions has been to the letter and worked out great. The only difference with this cab vs a fender for example is that the fender is easier to sand without alot of intricate curved and embossed areas. SPI recommends to reshoot paint within 6-7 days for best adhesion on a recoat, and this repair is gonna take me a while.

I'll give it another day or so before I get to chopping, the bracing seems like the way to go before a cut..I guess I need to go buy some steel rods and tack them. I recall seeing someone do this in a thread. I'll snoop some more and report back. Thanks again all!!

[Captainfab]

When you tack in your supports, you want to position them so that you can still install the doors to check your fitment and gaps.

[dracko]

I used the cut to fit method on the passenger side and it went "ok"... On the drivers side I would cut out the rusted section to the point where the patch panel overlaps the old metal about 2 inches, then clamp securely and used a few self tapping screws through both layers, then cut both layers at once. I couldn't believe how much easier, faster and better this method is. Even if your cut isn't perfectly straight, it's fine because both sides of the cut match.

Get the extra thin cut off wheels and ya end up with a perfect mig gap.

[MP&C]

Leave anything sit long enough in bare metal and you will have plenty of surface rust issues to deal with. Hindsight and all that, I should have media blasted each piece inside and out (yes, even the new stuff) to promote adhesion and epoxy primed each piece individually, inside and out, BEFORE assembly.





Now we are looking at media blasting the body as it will get into all those nooks and crannies quicker and easier than us doing it by hand.



Disclaimer: I have never restored a truck cab, so take this with a grain of salt..

Any assembly, especially given the reproduction parts of today, is likely to be just a little bit different from what the factory did, which in all fairness, even then wasn't up to the same standards that many of us work toward today. But once you assemble a few parts on parts in succession, any imperfection may compound in what can be called "tolerance stacking".

For order of assembly, I would think it easier to cover any final fitment defects under a piece of carpet than in the door/fender/rocker gaps. So MY preference is to start from the outside and work your way in. Start with the lower A/B pillars and outer rocker panel, mocking up the parts to form a "door frame". Just like building a house, the door frame gets squared up before worrying about the other details. So mock up/clamp these outer parts, hang the door and adjust the door gaps, and start tacking all these parts once you're happy with the fitment. After all, the gaps around the door are likely the most scrutinized, much less than what's under the floor covering. Get these outside VISIBLE parts as perfect as possible, any other variances in panel fitment (floors, inner rocker, etc) can be hidden. Once your "door frame" is welded, then move on to the inner rockers, braces, floors.

There's a million different ways to do something, in the end you lean toward the method you are most comfortable with based on skillset, experience, tooling, etc. If what I mentioned doesn't work for your truck cab, please refer to disclaimer above..

[Brad54]

In 20 years of writing magazine tech articles, I've learned from some of the best in the business.

First thing I would do is hang the doors back on it, with rebuilt hinges.
Everything on that truck right now, is a factory fit... rusted, but a factory fit. All the gaps and alignment is as it was from the factory (with fresh hinges).
Align the doors with fresh hinges, to the factory location of the rockers.
Then replace the rockers and get them fitted and gapped to the factory location of the door.

Without seeing the back side and underside of the rockers, I'm not sure I'd fully replace them. There's a couple small holes in the face of it, below the door. I'd poke that with a screwdriver and see how much of that metal is good... if most of it is, I think I'd just patch the face of it. For the top where it's rusted, I'd cut that out and use a repro rocker as a donor. Butt-weld it, and the seam will be under the rocker sill plate.

A mistake a lot of people make is thinking they need to "get their money's worth" by using an entire replacement panel. I like to see as much of the original metal retained as possible.

I might think about repairing that rear cab corner before I did anything with the rocker. The stock rocker in the stock location will make the alignment of the cab corner more exact.

I'd replace the floor sections and fit them to the stock bottom edge of the firewall toeboards, at the same time replacing the bottom edge of the firewall where it's needed.
I had to fabricate the bottom edge of the firewall on my '61, and recreate the factory flange in some areas, before finishing the floor pan installation.

-Brad

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by dracko

I used the cut to fit method on the passenger side and it went "ok"... On the drivers side I would cut out the rusted section to the point where the patch panel overlaps the old metal about 2 inches, then clamp securely and used a few self tapping screws through both layers, then cut both layers at once. I couldn't believe how much easier, faster and better this method is. Even if your cut isn't perfectly straight, it's fine because both sides of the cut match.

Get the extra thin cut off wheels and ya end up with a perfect mig gap.

That's the way I was shown, and I've put it in several car magazine articles. Amazing how awesome it works! Those self-tappers are awesome, because they allow you to keep removing and installing the panel in the exact same place as you're cutting and tweaking it to fit.

-Brad

[Alan's Classic]

How I braced mine

[msg]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

When you tack in your supports, you want to position them so that you can still install the doors to check your fitment and gaps.

Thanks Capt, Now I need to shop for angle iron or something to use as supports.

Originally Posted by dracko

I used the cut to fit method on the passenger side and it went "ok"... On the drivers side I would cut out the rusted section to the point where the patch panel overlaps the old metal about 2 inches, then clamp securely and used a few self tapping screws through both layers, then cut both layers at once. I couldn't believe how much easier, faster and better this method is. Even if your cut isn't perfectly straight, it's fine because both sides of the cut match.

Get the extra thin cut off wheels and ya end up with a perfect mig gap.

Thanks Dracko for the tip on this method, definitely be trying that out!

Originally Posted by MP&C

For order of assembly, I would think it easier to cover any final fitment defects under a piece of carpet than in the door/fender/rocker gaps. So MY preference is to start from the outside and work your way in. Start with the lower A/B pillars and outer rocker panel, mocking up the parts to form a "door frame". Just like building a house, the door frame gets squared up before worrying about the other details. So mock up/clamp these outer parts, hang the door and adjust the door gaps, and start tacking all these parts once you're happy with the fitment. After all, the gaps around the door are likely the most scrutinized, much less than what's under the floor covering. Get these outside VISIBLE parts as perfect as possible, any other variances in panel fitment (floors, inner rocker, etc) can be hidden. Once your "door frame" is welded, then move on to the inner rockers, braces, floors.
:

Much appreciated as always Robert for the input!!

Originally Posted by Brad54

Without seeing the back side and underside of the rockers, I'm not sure I'd fully replace them. There's a couple small holes in the face of it, below the door. I'd poke that with a screwdriver and see how much of that metal is good... if most of it is, I think I'd just patch the face of it.

-Brad

Brad I havent poked with the screwdriver yet but here are some underneath shots. I would think to replace a good bit of it right?

Originally Posted by Alan's Classic

How I braced mine

Thanks for the pic Alan, seems like I recalled from an earlier post Id seen from you somewhere. Is that bracing stuff you get at home depot or Lowes?

[Vinceg]

Your cab looks way better then mine in ways and way worse in others. That rear seam where the back of the cab joins the floor was a major pain. I took the replacement cab corner to a sheet metal shop so they could see the seam profile, they bent up a few pieces of scrap for 20 bucks. I was able to use them to re work the seam from one side to the other with them. it was very challenging. how bad is the inside of that lip?

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by msg

Thanks Capt, Now I need to shop for angle iron or something to use as supports.



Thanks Dracko for the tip on this method, definitely be trying that out!



Much appreciated as always Robert for the input!!



Brad I havent poked with the screwdriver yet but here are some underneath shots. I would think to replace a good bit of it right?






Thanks for the pic Alan, seems like I recalled from an earlier post Id seen from you somewhere. Is that bracing stuff you get at home depot or Lowes?

Yeah, I'd definitely change out those rockers.
If you do one side at a time, and do them one component at a time, I don't really see why you'd need to weld braces into the cab to keep it together.
For instance, if you start with the driver's side rocker panel, you'll cut out the rocker, but the floor will still be in there--and the floor will keep the cap together. Then when the new rocker is in, cut out the floor pan section and the cab is held together with the rocker.
AND, the other side of the vehicle that you haven't touched yet.

If you're going to cut out both rockers and the floor pan at the same time, then yeah, I'd brace it. But otherwise there's enough there to hold it all together on its own.

-Brad

[dracko]

Damn those floor braces are nice. I wish my truck was that solid when I started.

I agree with Brad, you might be able to get away without bracing, BUT for the small cost and small amount of effort, why not? I used angle iron and did like Capt said, welded it so you could hang the doors. Doors fit back on excellent. Also doesn't hurt to drill a small hole through the hinges and hinge plates in the pillar before taking the doors off, then you can use the drill bits to line the door back up.

[Captainfab]

At a minimum you are going to need cab corners, outer rockers and inner rockers and outer floor. I would get the one piece outer floor with the inner rocker. Those are much easier to work with and get things straight IMO. Some of the back of the cab you will either need to fab yourself or find a donor cab to cut that section from.

[canadian_diesel1964]

I wish mine was that nice....but I like custom trucks...LOL...good luck it'll be sweet when done Im sure..

[Brad54]

Originally Posted by dracko

I agree with Brad, you might be able to get away without bracing, BUT for the small cost and small amount of effort, why not? I used angle iron and did like Capt said, welded it so you could hang the doors. Doors fit back on excellent. Also doesn't hurt to drill a small hole through the hinges and hinge plates in the pillar before taking the doors off, then you can use the drill bits to line the door back up.

The only downside to running braces is trying to work around a jungle gym.
A GREAT piece of advice I got from Ron Covel during one of his metal fab classes was "Be comfortable when you work. It allows you to work fussy... you won't hurry something up because you're in an awkward position, cramped or exhausted."

One of the most valuable piece of advice I ever got.

-Brad

[72c105speed]

That bracing looks like it would make it hard to test fit the doors while lining up the rockers!?

[msg]

Originally Posted by Brad54

Yeah, I'd definitely change out those rockers.
If you do one side at a time, and do them one component at a time, I don't really see why you'd need to weld braces into the cab to keep it together.
For instance, if you start with the driver's side rocker panel, you'll cut out the rocker, but the floor will still be in there--and the floor will keep the cap together. Then when the new rocker is in, cut out the floor pan section and the cab is held together with the rocker.
AND, the other side of the vehicle that you haven't touched yet.

If you're going to cut out both rockers and the floor pan at the same time, then yeah, I'd brace it. But otherwise there's enough there to hold it all together on its own.

-Brad

Great info thanks Brad, I'll consider the bracing in this situation as a nice to have. The jungle gym factor you mentioned was also a concern. If however that bracing is a must Id do it, but if I can not shoot myself in the foot and work the way you outlined Ill try it out.

Originally Posted by dracko

Also doesn't hurt to drill a small hole through the hinges and hinge plates in the pillar before taking the doors off, then you can use the drill bits to line the door back up.

I did actually remember to drill that hole you mentioned on the drivers door though the hinge to the cab, but forgot to do the passenger side. The doors were in real rough shape at the base Ive cut out the door base and replaced with a patch panel. The driver door just needed the base of the door, but the passenger side was rusted through at the front base. So I tried making a patch at the base and botched the passenger door. I have since bought the entrie door skin and was going to replace it. As I recall the recommended plan was to wait until the cab was done and then make the passenger door repair.

I had a thread on it here
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=690647

Originally Posted by Captainfab

At a minimum you are going to need cab corners, outer rockers and inner rockers and outer floor. I would get the one piece outer floor with the inner rocker. Those are much easier to work with and get things straight IMO. Some of the back of the cab you will either need to fab yourself or find a donor cab to cut that section from.

Ive gotten in the past (late 90's) almost all of the panels you see here, except the black cab corner which I ordered last year. If I recall those are the outer rockers, so maybe all have left to order is the one piece outer floor inner rocker combo you mentioned Capt.

Originally Posted by canadian_diesel1964

I wish mine was that nice....but I like custom trucks...LOL...good luck it'll be sweet when done Im sure..

Thanks, I'll be excited when I have this part behind me.

But for today I will set my sights on the hood that the blaster couldnt get all of the top off. I had removed the inner bracing and they didnt want to warp it so it s me and some paint stripper today.

[msg]

Capt, I just realized those rockers appear to be the inner ones that I bought many years ago. Maybe Im better off buying the part you described with the outer floor and inner rocker combined? I have not found it yet, best Ive found is this outer floor.

http://www.classicparts.com/1960-66-.../#.VtNNkpMrLsE