Rebuild isn't starting

[AussieinNC]

Have been following along and have a few suggestions:

Remove all the spark plugs and perform a compression test...list the results for each cylinder...
drivers side cylinders front to back are 1,3 5 and 7
passenger side cylinders front to back 2,4,6,8

You should see around 150 psi on each cylinder...most auto parts stores can lend you a test gauge...

Did you remove the pistons from the block?
Did you remove and replace the piston rings on the pistons ?
Did you remove the camshaft and lifters?
Did you align the dots on the timing gear top and bottom gear to match when you put the chain back on?

I am attaching an image of the firing order and usual cap layout...

Lets us know the results of the compression test and answers to the questions...

[tabber]

Do you have full voltage going to the HEI, if I recall correctly point ignition has a resistor inline on the power wire. Maybe the distributor isn't getting enough juice.

[CowgirlKatie]

I fully replaced the power wire. there's not resistor inline in it anymore
No, the pistons were not removed because I didn't buy a full rebuild kit because the engine had just been rebuilt before the wires fried.
The only reason we pulled it apart was to make sure that mice hadn't gotten into it and made a nest somewhere
We removed just enough to see the cam and put it all back together immediately because nothing looked worn in the least
I don't have a compression tester so I won't know until later some time for that it has decent compression or not. The finger over the spark plug hole indicated it was ok though
The pic of the distributor position you posted is exactly how it's currently set
All I know about where the gears are set for the timing is what he told me. I haven't had time to take everything off the front end yet to check, but he swears it's ok. (not that I necessarily believe him)
And by kit for the heads I mean the rods, lifters, rocker arms, springs, and valves. Nothing fancy, just top end stuff that bends and/or wears funny
I'm not the brightest light to be sure, but I'm afraid of what else got messed up. Which would be horrible if something was because it's a 4 bolt main and I have such big plans for it a couple years down the road

[RichardJ]

>>So I took the valve covers off and took out the rods one by one and found 4 bent ones. So everything is going to be taken back apart and gone through again. <<

He found 4 bent pushrods

That could mean stuck valves, valve /rocker adjustment way, way off or the timing chain not installed properly.

Best case, a compression check at this point could break enough things that the problem would be easier to find as things start falling into the oil pan.

[tabber]

Probably chuck the cam also.

[CowgirlKatie]

I had thought about the cam when I pulled the bent rods out this morning.....

[AussieinNC]

If you have found bent push rods either the cam is not aligned correctly, or there are stuck and or bent valves...either way, remove the heads immediately and check for bent valves.

Then remove the timing cover and check the alignment of the timing marks on both gears...the two dots must line up exactly...one or two teeth off will bend valves and pushrods...

Also check the top of the pistons on the cylinders that had the bent pushrods...

[Warrens69GMC]

parts store houses rent compression gauges.

[Marine-58]

CowgirlKatie... I have to ask, how much experience do you have in putting an engine together? Just want to get a baseline for how in depth our suggestions need to be. For me at least, it is easy to "assume" someone knows things that they may not. With what you are tackling here, there are some very specific items that need to be addressed. When anyone is in a rush they will often overlook small but important things that need to be done. We all just want you to end up with a great running engine that will be reliable.

[HO455]

CowgirlKatie I am going to keep following your thread but I will step back and leave you in the capable hands of Marine58. Often too many voices are confusing. I recommend that you have a conversation with him as he asked to establish a good foundation to solve your problem .
Good luck and I will be watching for the successful conclusion.

[CowgirlKatie]

I've done mostly shade tree mechanic stuff. Rebuilt a 350 once or twice. I've never switched over points to HEI though. I researched it quite a bit before I tackled it so I'm pretty sure it's correct. Done a lot of Fords (yes I know that's the word the knights who say Ni cannot hear) but I like Chevy better, easier to find parts for and look better overall. We always did everything without special tools or gauges, kinda shot in the dark some times. I've destroyed a lot of things teaching myself to do it the right way, I was never the most tech savvy person so if the library didn't have it I figured it out on my own. I don't know it all, but I'm trying my hardest to figure it out. I figured it wouldn't be too hard to do this engine swap, but since I personally didn't do all the work this time I'm not sure where to begin checking for things wrong deep in the engine

[toolboxchev]

Well to keep you going in the right direction there are online manuals on this site for the technical information you might need.

Lets try this:http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php?p=5781194

All the info is in the links.

[Marine-58]

Originally Posted by CowgirlKatie

I've done mostly shade tree mechanic stuff. Rebuilt a 350 once or twice. I've never switched over points to HEI though. I researched it quite a bit before I tackled it so I'm pretty sure it's correct. Done a lot of Fords (yes I know that's the word the knights who say Ni cannot hear) but I like Chevy better, easier to find parts for and look better overall. We always did everything without special tools or gauges, kinda shot in the dark some times. I've destroyed a lot of things teaching myself to do it the right way, I was never the most tech savvy person so if the library didn't have it I figured it out on my own. I don't know it all, but I'm trying my hardest to figure it out. I figured it wouldn't be too hard to do this engine swap, but since I personally didn't do all the work this time I'm not sure where to begin checking for things wrong deep in the engine

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like your experience is based like most of ours. Trial and error... I would not want to even try to add up the amount of time and money that I have wasted over the years. But they say, experience is the best teacher. Certainly understand about the lack of tools. My first car was a 56 Chevy without engine and trans. Got those out of a junk yard and them all together in a carport. Took my drivers license test in that car.

I admire that you are willing not only to do the research to learn but also have the courage to try. I would imagine many on here are the same way.

Even having done this stuff since before putting the 56 together, I still have much to learn and there are many folks on here that know much more than I do. (Yeah, I mean you HO455... Not to exclude any others)

Sorry if this is getting too long, but that is what I do...

Back to the engine... Right now, is it in the truck or out? If it is out, have you started the teardown yet? Someone earlier advised to not tear it down, but to get it running. I don't disagree with that. It is totally your call, personally I would be concerned that one of those 4 bent pushrods would indicate that at least 1 valve hit a piston. Not a good scenario under any circumstance. Picture Steel hitting cast aluminum at an angle hard enough to bend the steel.

If it is in the truck, can you do a quick recap of everything you have tried? After going through multiple pages, I'm getting a little lost and don't want to assume anything.

If the engine is already out and you want to do a complete tear down, we can go down that path.

If anyone else has anything to add or disagrees, please do so...

[BILT4ME]

My money is on the valve adjustment. I recently helped a young man that has been fighting his 72 Ford for 8 months because he worked on it to fix it, but then it wouldn't run after he "fixed" it, so he started replacing parts.

After MUCH teeth-pulling to get clear, understandable answers on what he REALLY did, I discovered that he "adjusted the valves" by watching a youtube video.

Unfortunately (inline 6), he did not ROTATE the engine in between each set of valves. He started at the front and went to the back and adjusted every one of them. Unfortunately, some cylinders were on the compression stroke, some on exhaust, some on intake, but he just went front to back.

On the Chevy V8, you MUST adjust the valves IN THE FIRING ORDER 18436572 while it's on the stand (or in the truck). I prefer to do it this way without it running as one of the previous posters stated and slobbering oil all over. You still have to get it close enough to start first.

I'll be you were having popping through the carb, what seems like no compression, and you could tell it was firing, but not at the right time?

Start at #1 on the COMPRESSION stroke. #1 piston at TDC and BOTH intake and exhaust vale rocker arms should be at their "loosest" point. Then adjust from there, rotating the engine 90 degrees between each cylinder.

#1
Rotate 90
#8
Rotate 90
#4
Rotate 90
#3
Rotate 90
#6
Rotate 90
#5
Rotate 90
#7
Rotate 90
#2
You should be ready to go.

Yes you will need new PUSH RODS for ANY that are bent.

[randy500]

I really want you to get this thing running, you have so many unknowns so you should start over. Do the following in order.
Take off the timing cover, just loosen oil pan bolts and pry it out, chilton manual explains it.
if you don't have a manual then get one from the library or buy one.

Verify timing marks on timing gears
Reassemble and adjust valves properly
Time it using method I wrote in the other post
If it doesn't start then do compression test

If compression is low will explain how to diagnose that when you post the numbers.
Show us how bent the pushrod is, might be ok just for starting the engine. I will send you used pushrods if you want for cost of postage.

Post pics of timing marks when you get it tore down

[CowgirlKatie]

The engine is in the pickup right now and mostly assembled. I took of a couple things to check the push rods.
So to recap this is what all has happened:
Took engine out of '69 grain truck. It had been rebuilt, but exhaust manifold were reused and blow open and fried the wires.
I took the engine apart on the engine stand and checked everything to make sure nothing was bad.
Replaced all the seals and timing chain and reassembled everything
Changed from points to hei
Put on a brand new Edelbrock 650 thunder series carb
Put the engine in the pickup and tried to start it
Thought the timing was out and rechecked everything, turned out to be fine
Realized the valves may not have been set correctly and checked the push rods
4 push rods were moderately bent
That brings me to where I am now:
Waiting for time to take off the heads and check the vales, check the cam, and replace the rods, lifters, and rocker arms.
With the engine in the pickup this might prove difficult and I'm debating taking the engine back out to repair everything and reexamin the potentially damaged parts

Just for general info about the pickup:
It sat in a field with a water tank in the bed for years and the engine had been replace at some point from the original 350 to a 305 (lack of power being the reason for the swap now). It has the original 3 speed tranny and original 4x4 transfer case, 353 rear end, original steel wheels (which need replaced), original hub caps (full set of 5), and build sheet attached to the fuel tank behind the seat.
It's going to be restored back to how it looked when it rolled off the line in 1972, with a few modifications to the drive train
I have pics if anybody is interested

[dgheinen]

If it is of interest to you, I have a couple really in depth and descriptive (with color pictures) manuals on rebuilding SBC I can mail you. Free of charge

[CowgirlKatie]

I may take you up on that if I can't figure it out soon. I want to pull it apart and look at the full extent of the damage first, see how much needs replaced

[Marine-58]

I think most everyone agrees that at the least you need to pull the heads. 4 bent pushrods is concerning. It doesn't help you any to try and make it run until figuring out what caused it.

In talking about this with one of the guys during a smoke break, he said his first time doing an engine, he tightened the valves as in all the way down. ... thought that was what to do.

Obviously bent a few pushrods cranking it. But also one didn't bend and the valve put a nasty Crack in a piston top.

Sure hope you don't have anything nearly that bad. However not knowing would make me nuts...

Earlier Aussie suggests checking the cam alignment. Also a must do.

Oh yeah... pictures are always good.

[CowgirlKatie]

I don't have pics of everything, but here's what I do have

[Marine-58]

You gotta love the looks of a fresh painted Chevy engine.... Of all the stock engine colors, Chevu orange has always been my favorite.

Did you decide if you are going to pull the engine or pull the heads still in the truck? Either way, if you see any possible places on the piston top where a valve may have touched it, pleas try to get a good picture of that. Not being 50 anymore, I lean toward just yanking the engine out myself. Last time I replaced the intake gasket all that leaning over the fender took a couple days to get over. Wouldn't want to do that with aluminum heads much less a cast iron set....

If you want to take the chance and just replace the pushrods, I would definitely suggest a compression test on all cylinders. If you don't have a tester, most auto parts places will loan one out. Before doing the compression test, pre-adjust all the valves like was outlined earlier by BILT4ME. That was the best worded explanation I have ever seen...

Good luck on this and please keep us all posted on what you decide and how it is going...

[AussieinNC]

I am continuing to follow this thread....if it was me, I would be pulling this out and putting it back on the stand for a tear down...

I suspect the cam is out of timing alignment, see pic attached of the dots you need to line up...

I would strongly suggest you pull both heads off and check really well for cracked piston tops and bent valves...I have personally had to repair over 100 engines that had mis-aligned timing indexes....to be off just one tooth can cause catastrophic damage. Even worse would be to just correct the cam timing issue then start the engine with cracked pistons...

I would remove the valves from the heads and check for bending...
Examine the tops of the pistons...any that have contact marks should be replaced...
There is also the possibility the camshaft is actually snapped....were all the push rods that you found bent located on the back two cylinders?

The timing index pic is attached...

[Marine-58]

Any updates?

[CowgirlKatie]

No, I haven't had time to work on it. I'm hoping this week I'll get to

[AussieinNC]

Any update on this ?

Did you find the issue?

Thanks