Timing showing way off tab...wits end

[trac209]

Ok so here is my issue,I recently rebuilt my engine. Bored,rings,bearings new cam,heads etc. Other than that everything from old engine is being used. Issue is when a timing light is connected (vac advance disconnected). The timing mark shows at 12 o clock position way off tab with timing light. Also tried another light same results. I have verified tdc using a stop and by compression and the balancer mark is right on zero on tab. The engine will not run when I retard timing to get near the tab. Engine starts well and doesn’t kick back or ping and revs up nicely. Doesn’t ping under load in gear either. I can’t for the life of me figure out why this is happening, I have even locked the weights in the distributor and it ran bad under load so engine doesn’t seem to be running at an actual 38-40 degrees initial timing. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[tdangle]

Couple of possible solutions.

1. you have a dial back type timing light and it is messed up. I would verify with another timing light (opps did't read your post closely enough)
2. Are you really hooked to #1 SBC cyl 1 is drivers side front of engine.
3. timing ring had shifted on your balancer

[trac209]

Originally Posted by tdangle

Couple of possible solutions.

1. you have a dial back type timing light and it is messed up. I would verify with another timing light (opps did't read your post closely enough)
2. Are you really hooked to #1 SBC cyl 1 is drivers side front of engine.
3. timing ring had shifted on your balancer

Yes on number one cylinder,no balancer hasn’t shifted keyway is in line with mark on balancer. Old setup was perfect with this same balancer. If balancer shifted tdc wouldn’t line up with tab 0 mark.

[YoungPup1977]

So before working on the engine as you stated above, when you set the timing before the rebuild, the mark was different than what you are seeing today ??

Some SBC's are timed straight up on the timing cover....

How did you set the timing before your rebuild....what changed, timing cover ? balancer ? reused all old parts ? Anything changed ?

[cadillac_al]

Yup, trac must not have timed the engine before the rebuild. It sounds like the classic wrong balancer/timing cover combo.

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

Yup, trac must not have timed the engine before the rebuild. It sounds like the classic wrong balancer/timing cover combo.

Except he says timing mark is zeroed with #1 TDC.

[trac209]

Originally Posted by garyd1961

Except he says timing mark is zeroed with #1 TDC.

Finally someone who actually read the post through. Balancer has not been changed or shifted as stated in op. Previous engine was also timed. I’ll figure it out thanks.

[YoungPup1977]

LOL !!!!! Please let us know what you find !!!! I love these trick questions and its like a treasure hunt.... its so exciting.

Did you do all the work ? so you should know what you did wrong....right ?

GOOD LUCK !!!


Oh I missed the comment "previous engine" which implies its not the original engine ? correct ?
Heres one for ya... put ground shielding on your plug wires and make sure you get a good ground to ground the shielding to. Must be still winter in Canada....

[trac209]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

LOL !!!!! Please let us know what you find !!!! I love these trick questions and its like a treasure hunt.... its so exciting.

Did you do all the work ? so you should know what you did wrong....right ?

GOOD LUCK !!!


Oh I missed the comment "previous engine" which implies its not the original engine ? correct ?
Heres one for ya... put ground shielding on your plug wires and make sure you get a good ground to ground the shielding to. Do know any thing about RF waves ?? You ever get cross talk on your old land line on your phone ?? Look it up thru google. Short transmit to receive on the two wire circuit on your phone and u get dial tone. Lol!!!!!

Previous engine means before rebuild as stated in op.

[rsavage]

Does your timing cover have a tab at 12 o'clock right under the water pump that can barely be seen ? Did you add an aftermarket timing tab on the cover at the 5 o'clock position as small blocks often have or add a different timing cover? It can appear as that the distributor is in correctly and it is on number one and TDC on the lower tab when in fact the TDC should be on the upper tab under the water pump. Balancer crank keyways determine what tab is used.
Happened to me. I put the motor together, didn't see the almost hidden tab and added an aftermarket timing tab. Had that distributor in and out several times 'till I finally figured it out.

[trac209]

Originally Posted by rsavage

Does your timing cover have a tab at 12 o'clock right under the water pump that can barely be seen ? Did you add an aftermarket timing tab on the cover at the 5 o'clock position as small blocks often have or add a different timing cover? It can appear as that the distributor is in correctly and it is on number one and TDC on the lower tab when in fact the TDC should be on the upper tab under the water pump. Balancer crank keyways determine what tab is used.
Happened to me. I put the motor together, didn't see the almost hidden tab and added an aftermarket timing tab. Had that distributor in and out several times 'till I finally figured it out.

No cover and tab are original and have not been changed. All posted in response are a moot point since the mark on the balancer points to 0 on the tab.

I’ll post what this issue is when and if I find it. My original post has addressed every question people have asked.

[Feel the 'Pane]

Are you using the same crank? Or maybe the cam gear (distributor end) is off index from the old 1?

Like trac209 says, he'll figure it out... Head scratcher for sure!

[Feel the 'Pane]

OK, so I'm old & have a bad memory, but I've done hundreds engines & once, I had a belt timed ohc straight 4 that ran 'OK', but wasn't doing near what it should. Found that some gas station mechanic had replaced the timing belt 1 tooth off. Retarded cam timing 8° & ran, but lost power @4k instead of 6.5k (redline).

Put the belt where it SHOULD have been & it ran like a raped ape.

Is it possible that your cam gear (timing chain) is off 1 tooth?

[Greasey Harley]

Timing chain advanced one tooth?
Cam not ground properly?
Did you degree the camshaft when you installed it?

[truckster]

I've been wracking my brain since your first post. This is really a mystery. The only thing I can come up with is maybe the cam...

How is the power compared to what you expected? If the cam is off, it could still run, and the ignition timing would be off, but it should have a noticeable power loss.

[Captainfab]

Whether the cam was installed advanced or retarded, it is not going to change the ignition timing only the valve timing. Since the OP has verified #1 TDC and the the rotor is at #1, I would suspect something screwy is going on with the distributor.

[Feel the 'Pane]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Whether the cam was installed advanced or retarded, it is not going to change the ignition timing only the valve timing. Since the OP has verified #1 TDC and the the rotor is at #1, I would suspect something screwy is going on with the distributor.

Uumm, if the OP is talking about a SBC, ignition timing is driven by the cam.

[rpmerf]

Yes but you can adjust the distributor independent of the cam timing. Even if the cam is off a tooth, you can get the distributor where it needs to be.

[rpmerf]

Originally Posted by trac209

no balancer hasn’t shifted keyway is in line with mark on balancer. Old setup was perfect with this same balancer. If balancer shifted tdc wouldn’t line up with tab 0 mark.

The balancer is made up of multiple pieces. There should be a rubber layer in there. If that has deteriorated, the center section will line up on the crank, and it will look fine when the engine is off, but can move once the engine is started. I would try moving the outer ring of the balancer to be sure it is tight to the center section and there is no play.

edit:
The crank pulley bolts to the center section. mark TDC on the crank pulley and see if it lines up with the balancer while running.

[YoungPup1977]

What vehicle is this SBC in ? I am assuming its a SBC, no where have you indicated what engine it is..... its a Chevy correct ?

baby steps one question at a time...….


Year Make Model CID please...

[trac209]

Originally Posted by YoungPup1977

What vehicle is this SBC in ? I am assuming its a SBC, no where have you indicated what engine it is..... its a Chevy correct ?

baby steps one question at a time...….


Year Make Model CID please...

Yes Sbc,look no offence intended but I’m just gonna stop replies to this thread as nobody has either taken the time to read through original post or they know zero about engines and timing.

[YoungPup1977]

Originally Posted by trac209

Yes Sbc,look no offence intended but I’m just gonna stop replies to this thread as nobody has either taken the time to read through original post or they know zero about engines and timing.

LOL!!!! No where in your information talks about what vehicle or engine so if you want any help from me I need you to answer the questions I asked, if not its still your issue...… WOW dude !!! must be still cold up North...

By the way no offense intended in return but its really your issue and if you want help you are going about it the wrong way !! To say in this forum, read thru the OP....well where in your OP does it indicate what engine year make of vehicle.....you want us to help but wont give up information so I can help you

Cant even answer my simple question year make model CID.....so we know what we are working on....the forum deserves folks like you when you state no one knows about engines and you are going to STOP replying...LOL!!! WTH, is this kids corner or something....LOL!!!!!!

I wont reply any more....LOL!!!!! I don't know what your working on...most likely its a FORD !!!! You offended....LOL!!!!

What a joke dude !!!!

GOOD LUCK !!!!

[SunSoaked]

I can't stop thinking about how a raped ape runs. A video would be most helpful. Lol.

[tdangle]

All I can say is good luck after your last post/comment.

[Feel the 'Pane]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

I can't stop thinking about how a raped ape runs. A video would be most helpful. Lol.

I guess that shows how old I am...

"That thing ran like a:

scalded dog
raped ape