Why all the hype about horse power and torque?

[396C-10]

So I find myself looking for the correct carburetor combination for my 67 C-10 with a bone stock built 396/402 engine. When I web search for the correct carburetor to run, all I get is horse power, 1/4 mile E/T times, pro street mods and what is hot on the market.
What about dependable, smooth, quiet and economical daily drivers? I don't care about horse power, I want it to start when I turn the key, I want it to run like a sewing machine, and I want it nice and quiet.
It is irritating to think we are all on the drag strip every weekend having pissing matches about who can tear up their trucks in the least amount of time.
Ending on this note, has anyone found a good carburetor combination for their big block sewing machine?

[truckster]

You're going to have a hard time finding anything better than a Quadrajet. There's a reason they went on millions of cars and trucks built by GM. They offer a great combination of available power with reasonable fuel economy and reliability.

If you're getting a remanufactured Quadrajet, I would recommend getting one with an electric choke.

[davepl]

Why are you even searching for performance parts on the Internet? Get what your truck was designed for.... A Quadrajet, like something with casting number 7040206. That's a Q-Jet for a 1970 402, 50-state emissions, automatic transmission.

Then have that carb gone through by someone GOOD like Cliff Ruggles.

Then bolt it on and tell your friends you have EFI if you like. My truck starts and runs like a new vehicle.

But that is all dependent on everything being there and operating properly, from the heat riser to the heat stove to the unblocked crossover and choke and pulloff and everything the factory did to make them operate smoothly.

Far too often people rip off all those parts, stuff a Holley HP double pumper on their vehicle, and then complain carbs suck.

Just assemble your truck like GM designed it an all will be well.

[Lattimer]

All depends on what you want to do. Lots of very good options out there.

As mentioned, a properly rebuilt Qjet is a very good option, but you would want to have ALL of the factory components in place to make it work perfect.

Otherwise, there are several aftermarket carbs out there that work very nice. I'm running the StreetDemon 625 on my SBC, and I believe they recommend the Street Demon 750 for BBC applications: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...mon/parts/1903

I've been impressed with the easy setup, smoothness, and easy starting I get with mine. It was inexpensive compared to some others, looks pretty good, but most importantly works well.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

As mentioned, a properly rebuilt Qjet is a very good option, but you would want to have ALL of the factory components in place to make it work perfect.

I'm not sure what you mean by all the factory components, but the Quadrajet works fine with aftermarket intakes, headers, removing smog equipment, HEI, etc.

[cla511]

I've gone to Q-jets on most all of my engines. I have them on stock 350s and 454s all the way to hot 400s and 427. They work very well. The electric chokes work great also. It's hard to find anything over 750cfm but most motors are over carbed anyway. Summit has a big list of them.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by truckster

I'm not sure what you mean by all the factory components, but the Quadrajet works fine with aftermarket intakes, headers, removing smog equipment, HEI, etc.

Depends on what you mean. One man's "works fine" is another mans "what a POS to drive, I have to use two feet and it stalls when cold and bogs in the winter" and so on.

GM didn't put all the other stuff on because someone dared them to lose money!

When I say "it drives fine", I really mean "Your mom, who drives a Camry, cold-started my truck in the winter and drove it and thought it ran really well".

Switching to an aftermarket intake usually means losing the heat crossover (though not always) which makes them ugly in the cold. Same with an open filter element and no heat stove, it's bog city.

Removing smog equipment usually just screws up the carb calibration without improving performance, so I never do that. I mean if my truck originally had an A.I.R. pump I wouldn't seek one out just to have it, but I sure wouldn't take one off to save 3 horsepower unless I was in Pro Stock. And the PCV is an important anti-wear device, so I wouldn't remove that. And that's about the entire extent of smog equipment on these.

[franken]

Since the OP, while yelling a lot, never grasped what HP and torque are.
Torque is measured. HP is calculated. Who tells the truth?

Doubt?
Torque has units, HP has none.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by davepl

Depends on what you mean. One man's "works fine" is another mans "what a POS to drive, I have to use two feet and it stalls when cold and bogs in the winter" and so on.

GM didn't put all the other stuff on because someone dared them to lose money!

When I say "it drives fine", I really mean "Your mom, who drives a Camry, cold-started my truck in the winter and drove it and thought it ran really well".

Switching to an aftermarket intake usually means losing the heat crossover (though not always) which makes them ugly in the cold. Same with an open filter element and no heat stove, it's bog city.

Removing smog equipment usually just screws up the carb calibration without improving performance, so I never do that. I mean if my truck originally had an A.I.R. pump I wouldn't seek one out just to have it, but I sure wouldn't take one off to save 3 horsepower unless I was in Pro Stock. And the PCV is an important anti-wear device, so I wouldn't remove that. And that's about the entire extent of smog equipment on these.

I agree 100% BUT [and there is always a but)
Your mom and my mom who drives a camry most likely forgot what it was like with older vehicles, that you back then, started and waited a few minutes before popping it into gear.. Today they get in and go..

The removing the other factory equipment will cause cold start/run issues.. but that only matters if the vehicle gets started and run in the cold..
Most don't anymore.. so .. G.m. put the parts there for all year round use.. and it is great for that.. BUT.. you can use newer parts either g.m. or aftermarket and have the best of both worlds..
Sure if you use an air gap intake and try to jump in and drive it when it's 60* or lower out it's gonna not like it..
I've found that a block heater is better than a heat stove and a heat crossover in the intake.. but that isn't for everybody.. and no way the oem's would ask owners to plug in vehicle to warm it up to start it.. lol

Like everything it depends on how you plan on using the vehicle..

I was forced to drive my vehicle that was a far weather car one winter for a month.. with a carb with no choke.. no fun.. but I did take and put a 12v small rv heater in front of the dual snorkel air cleaner and blocked one side.
and would run the heater for the first 5 minutes of running and it did just fine cold.
Today.. I think I'd try to find the heaters that went under the carb's and tbi's in the 80's and install it into a 1/2 carb spacer.. if there was any chance of driving it when cold out.. as it makes the carb'd vehicle get in and drive.. better than a heat stove and crossover.. that and a j-qet with correctly set electric choke would be my choice..

[my56chevytruck]

Originally Posted by 396C-10

So I find myself looking for the correct carburetor combination for my 67 C-10 with a bone stock built 396/402 engine. When I web search for the correct carburetor to run, all I get is horse power, 1/4 mile E/T times, pro street mods and what is hot on the market.
What about dependable, smooth, quiet and economical daily drivers? I don't care about horse power, I want it to start when I turn the key, I want it to run like a sewing machine, and I want it nice and quiet.
It is irritating to think we are all on the drag strip every weekend having pissing matches about who can tear up their trucks in the least amount of time.
Ending on this note, has anyone found a good carburetor combination for their big block sewing machine?

I have run Edelbrocks and Holleys, no experience with Qjets, so I can only say I'm running an Edelbrock 600 on my BBC454 in my 56 truck. Since mine didn't have a manual fuel pump, I'm using a small electric pump and she starts right up, everytime. my .02 worth.

[fatbass]

Originally Posted by davepl

Why are you even searching for performance parts on the Internet? Get what your truck was designed for.... A Quadrajet, like something with casting number 7040206. That's a Q-Jet for a 1970 402, 50-state emissions, automatic transmission.

Then have that carb gone through by someone GOOD like Cliff Ruggles.

Then bolt it on and tell your friends you have EFI if you like. My truck starts and runs like a new vehicle.

But that is all dependent on everything being there and operating properly, from the heat riser to the heat stove to the unblocked crossover and choke and pulloff and everything the factory did to make them operate smoothly.

Far too often people rip off all those parts, stuff a Holley HP double pumper on their vehicle, and then complain carbs suck.

Just assemble your truck like GM designed it an all will be well.

This resonates. Q-jet done right all day.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by davepl

Depends on what you mean. One man's "works fine" is another mans "what a POS to drive, I have to use two feet and it stalls when cold and bogs in the winter" and so on.

When I say "works fine" I mean a Quadrajet properly tuned starts easily, runs trouble-free, and gives good economy and power. In other words, exactly as I would expect it to.

Originally Posted by davepl

GM didn't put all the other stuff on because someone dared them to lose money!

The cast iron manifolds are cheaper than aluminum, and that's why they were used when weight wasn't a primary consideration. Same with cast iron exhaust manifolds. AIR pumps were an early attempt to improve emissions. I don't think any of it was a dare to lose money.

Originally Posted by davepl

When I say "it drives fine", I really mean "Your mom, who drives a Camry, cold-started my truck in the winter and drove it and thought it ran really well".

Switching to an aftermarket intake usually means losing the heat crossover (though not always) which makes them ugly in the cold. Same with an open filter element and no heat stove, it's bog city.

A Quadrajet is no worse and may be better than other carburetors under these conditions if it's properly calibrated.

Originally Posted by davepl

Removing smog equipment usually just screws up the carb calibration without improving performance, so I never do that. I mean if my truck originally had an A.I.R. pump I wouldn't seek one out just to have it, but I sure wouldn't take one off to save 3 horsepower unless I was in Pro Stock. And the PCV is an important anti-wear device, so I wouldn't remove that. And that's about the entire extent of smog equipment on these.

A.I.R. pumps have absolutely nothing to do with carb calibration. That would only happen in a feedback loop situation, such as with the electronically-controlled Quadrajets introduced in 1982. A.I.R simply pumps fresh air into the exhaust manifold to help burn unburned hydrocarbons.

On the other hand, the PCV system is important on all engines, and there would be no reason to remove it when replacing a Quadrajet with another Quadrajet. All factory Quadrajet installations had PCV valves. But all you need to run a PCV system (aside from the PCV valve) is engine vacuum, which you can do with any carb.

So I'm still not seeing how a Quadrajet is in any way inferior to an aftermarket carburetor whether in a stock installation or in a modified engine. The original poster was asking about a replacement for his stock carburetor, and the Quadrajet is the best choice in my opinion.

And I agree with James III on the block heater. I'm putting two in the engine that's going in my Blazer (one will be a spare) because winters here are pretty cold and I like getting warm as fast as I can.

[geezer#99]

What!!
No luv for the rochestor 2 bbl on your 396!
Clean, simple, runs like a top all the time!

[truckster]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

What!!
No luv for the rochestor 2 bbl on your 396!
Clean, simple, runs like a top all the time!

I wasn't aware what carb was original equipment, but if the OP is happy with it, I'd have it refurbished and run with it. Why make life more complicated?

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by truckster

I'm not sure what you mean by all the factory components, but the Quadrajet works fine with aftermarket intakes, headers, removing smog equipment, HEI, etc.

The ones I have dealt with in the past had cold weather issues if you didn't keep the heat stove functional, so swapping air cleaner or headers was a bit of an issue.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by Lattimer

The ones I have dealt with in the past had cold weather issues if you didn't keep the heat stove functional, so swapping air cleaner or headers was a bit of an issue.

I never understood the open air cleaner .
Sure if you have a cowl induction or a ram air set up..
but other wise you are just adding more hot air to the intake charge..

I've always added a 2nd snorkel and run hose/duct to in front of the heat exchanger..

No point of giving up some efficiency and power to look cool..

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

I recently had an Edlebrock installed on the 72 402. It runs great, about a $400 carb. Word I got was for your basic carbs I suppose, Edlebrock for fuel efficiency, Holley gets you more speed. Another guy says BS, they should be about the same.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

I recently had an Edlebrock installed on the 72 402. It runs great, about a $400 carb. Word I got was for your basic carbs I suppose, Edlebrock for fuel efficiency, Holley gets you more speed. Another guy says BS, they should be about the same.

The difference is the edel is a vacuum 2nd carb and only mildly tune able.

The holley either in vacuum 2nd (street) or double pumper (street/strip)
is you can tune everything on it..

The q-jet is in the same boat as the edel.. as far as user tuning but has tiny primary bores for crisp throttle response and flipp'n huge 2nd's..
and when tuned correctly will run as good as the holley . most times better..

Holley claim to fame is K.I.S.S. and user changeable parts to tune it to your app.

Think of it this way, your shower head the q jet is the fine mist, the holley is the thick streams..
holley dumps the fuel, the edel and q-jet meter it..

[special-K]

If you just want one of these trucks to run right, like the day it was new, put what came on it the day it was new...and decades later. I just fired up my '72 that has been sitting all winter, hadn't run in a few weeks. It has a properly rebuilt and operating Q-Jet with no choke rod. It started right up with depressing the pedal to set the choke. Ran pretty rough at first, like a plug was fouled or carbon tracks, having me think I'd have to do a little work before driving. But, as it warmed up it smoothed out nicely. I let it run a while, hopped in, revved it to cruising RPM and it sounded great, smooth as glass. Back on idle I tromp the pedal and it revs right up, no flat spot/hesitation/nada, just a snappy "REPPumm!", just like new, just like fuel injection. I was thinking how good life is when a carb works right. That has been my experience with carbs. My original 350 has bigger valve higher compression heads now and the carb that was set-up stock runs it like a Swiss clock

Originally Posted by James the III

I never understood the open air cleaner .
Sure if you have a cowl induction or a ram air set up..
but other wise you are just adding more hot air to the intake charge..

I've always added a 2nd snorkel and run hose/duct to in front of the heat exchanger..

No point of giving up some efficiency and power to look cool..

Until EFI, pretty much all vehicles ran on under hood temp air. We know cooler air is more dense and engines make more power with more air. That is the same reason an open element air filter truly makes more horsepower than a factory housing...single or dual. It's more than looks. There have been tests where they used the factory dual snorkel compared to the open element and the open element gave about a 15hp boost on an all stock engine with no other changes. The greater amount of warm air from an open element puts more air into the carb than less air that is more dense from a snorkle housing.

[weq92f]

With today's EFI systems around a grand in price, I can't imaging spending 500+ bucks on a carb.

Just a few hundred more and you get modern FI in place of just about any carb setup ( minus the really big ones and multiple carb intakes and a few other high end applications ). With that, you can toss all your carb tuning tools and ideas and just let the on board ECU sort it out with lines of computer code. Plus, the ECU will throw trouble codes when something goes wrong like an O2 sensor, TPS, IAT, MAF etc..

Then, no matter what the weather, just turn the key and it will fire right up and idle down just like your Mom's camry.

-klb

[truckster]

Originally Posted by weq92f

With today's EFI systems around a grand in price, I can't imaging spending 500+ bucks on a carb.

Just a few hundred more and you get modern FI in place of just about any carb setup ( minus the really big ones and multiple carb intakes and a few other high end applications ). With that, you can toss all your carb tuning tools and ideas and just let the on board ECU sort it out with lines of computer code. Plus, the ECU will throw trouble codes when something goes wrong like an O2 sensor, TPS, IAT, MAF etc..

Then, no matter what the weather, just turn the key and it will fire right up and idle down just like your Mom's camry.

-klb

My mom doesn't have a Camry, but if she did, I wouldn't want to drive it.

You can get a nicely remanufactured Quadrajet from National Carburetors for just over $200. Bolt it on and go. Plus a lifetime warranty. And no trouble codes because there's no O2 sensor, MAF, IAT, TPS, etc.

Don't get me wrong - my Z28 is fuel injected and I love the way it runs. But there's definitely a place for carburetors, and my 72 Blazer is getting a Vortec with a Quadrajet on it, because I'm building it to be a classic truck with the sound and soul I remember.

[davepl]

We have two groups of people talking past one another.

One group wants it to start, run, idle, and behave "like a Camry", because it was perfectly capable of doing it when new. They don't want any of the nonsense that comes from stripping away cold-start and some emissions features.

The other group thinks that nonsense is perfectly normal and "whatsamatta with you" that you don't want to two-foot it when it's cold, that's what real men do. And, I'm told, some vehicles start already warmed up (never cold start so don't worry about it), which is handy I guess. Or maybe they just never turn them off.

All I know is I've got a bone-stock 650hp car that runs a 2.9 second 0-60 and it starts and idles and behaves well cold. Any slower vehicles therefore should as well. No excuse. But if you like them rough and nonsensical, it's your truck, do what you like!

Then again I run catalytic converters on my 69 Camaro because I don't like the smell of unburned fuel, so I'm a little pickier than most about drivability, noise, vibration, and harshness issues. But I've had my share of old open-element, electric choke, no heat-riser nonsense in my past.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by weq92f

With today's EFI systems around a grand in price, I can't imaging spending 500+ bucks on a carb.

Just a few hundred more and you get modern FI in place of just about any carb setup ( minus the really big ones and multiple carb intakes and a few other high end applications ). With that, you can toss all your carb tuning tools and ideas and just let the on board ECU sort it out with lines of computer code. Plus, the ECU will throw trouble codes when something goes wrong like an O2 sensor, TPS, IAT, MAF etc..

Then, no matter what the weather, just turn the key and it will fire right up and idle down just like your Mom's camry.

-klb

TBI is basicly a carb with injectors stuffed (oem) on top of it, (aftermarket lately) stuffed in it..
Nothing to write home about. and was 995.00 in 1993 when I bought my first pro jection 4..
it still being 1000 for the most basic of tbi systems with big limits.. isn't what I'd call a good value.. sure the computer is better than 1993 but a 59.00 tablet is about equal to todays tbi ecu's..

I truly can't understand how it's still close to 3g's for a multi port efi today..

My issue with tbi is not that for 4 times the cost of a new summit carb..

but my issue with all efi is technology is moving so fast.. how long will you be able to get parts, if the on the unit micro ecu fries, in a year or two will you be up ___ creek?
Same issue I have with the efi with ecu and harness.. that isn't part of the efi unit..
The q-jet and holley and carter 50 years later you can get all the parts to rebuild it..
Try getting an injector for that projection 4.. or linkage parts or harness/etc.. now what if you were the guy that spent 2-4 grand on an accell efi and can't get parts..
same issue with the MSd and FAST systems.. I have zero faith in the new guys on the block being any different..
I don't even thing the new holley efi will be any better with parts avail.. down the line..
This is a HUGE issue , when you drop a 1000.00 and even more when you got 3k into it..
but ,oh look that 50,oo junkyard or swap meet carb and a 20.00 rebuild kit and 6 dollar float. and boom.. even 40-50+ years later..
I'm sure I'm not the only one that has this "issue " with the fancy electronic engine controls..
the oems gave up on tbi 20+ years ago for a reason.. reliability was a big part of that.. I have more faith in getting parts for a 30 year old g.m. tbi efi than a 3 year old fast or msd or any other.

[jeffahart]

For me it's not so much about performance as it is about the beauty of things mechanical. I debated long and hard before ditching my points for HEI. Yes, I loved dialing in the dwell... What is it about that? Oh, I guess I owned enough fords that I just love that little door to on the side of the dist to dial in the dwell.

Anyhow, it's the "E"in the EFI that keeps me away. I really dig the oil line going to the gauge and the speedo cable, and I want to keep my fuel pump. I like the mechanical nature of these old trucks.

I'm accustomed to the Q jets over the years, but I could see how one would want the easy way out if it's not purring. Or if performance is the only factor then you need to modernize quite a bit. And being all things electronic that can be dialed in with software diagnostics, that's tempting too I will have to admit.

But I also think if you have trouble getting the truck running with a Q jet, you will be struggling in other areas. Just due to a lack of experience. But you need to start somewhere! So get the Q jet and learn to tune your truck... and enjoy driving a nice running old truck.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by davepl

The other group thinks that nonsense is perfectly normal and "whatsamatta with you" that you don't want to two-foot it when it's cold, that's what real men do. And, I'm told, some vehicles start already warmed up (never cold start so don't worry about it), which is handy I guess. Or maybe they just never turn them off.

I haven't seen anyone else talking about two-footing it in the cold because that's what real men do. The OP was looking for simple. It doesn't get any simpler than replacing the stock carb with a remanufactured carb of the same type.