Help me build a Raptor killer

[JimJones]

Originally Posted by special-K

I dunno. I would enjoy driving that truck in the video,just as it is,till the day I die. Heck,I've been doing just that for 40 years. They are exactly what I like and "WHY" I like them. If I wanted something that drove like a Ford Raptor I'd buy a Ford Raptor.

I know what you mean I feel the same way about cutting up the body. It's just that I think it would be more enjoyable to not have to slow down to a snails crawl when going over severely washed out roads and ditches. I want to be able to blast thru them with the gas pedal floored without breaking anything or bottoming out.

Where ill eventually end up even the paved roads "if you can call them that" are in horrible condition and you can't go much more than 10 MPH in a regular truck.

I love that green/white truck in the video and I want to build basically the same thing just with a bad ass suspension that is capable of taking a beating. I guess I used the Ford Raptor because it’s the only vehicle that I know of that comes pretty well set up from the factory and everybody can pretty much agree weather you like Fords or not that it’s a very capable truck.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by JimJones

Let me ask you guys this. Originally I was planning on trying to locate a 3/4 ton long bed truck that had leaf springs. But now I'm wondering if I might be better off to use a 1/2 long bed with rear coil springs. Would you get more suspension travel with the coil spring truck? And are there parts out there to beef up a rear coil spring suspension?

Yes you can probably get longer travel and more predictable suspension out of trailing arms and coilovers in the rear. If you are considering a leaf sprung solid axle in the front you'll be building the truck suspension equivelent of a mullet except that which is the "business" end and which is the "party" end is kind of open to interpretation.

The more this thread seems to evolve the more I'm thinking to get what you want to do with the truck and it not turning into a huge money pit, it comes down to prerunner or rebody. There isn't a whole lot of easily adaptable 4WD systems that are really good at flooring it through washed out roads and ditches. You need an independent front suspension if you want to take things at speed that don't give and you need a transfer case that acts as a differential between front and rear and not something that simply sends power to both ends. The Raptor I'm sure is doing electronic biasing between front and rear. I don't know the system specifically but all the AWD rally cars are that way and it sounds like that is what you are looking for really.

The typical truck 4WD system through the 90's is useful for crawling, keeping you from getting stuck in greasy mud and offers some advantages in ice and snow, in the dry in 4WD it'll buck like a misbehaving dog. These old 4WD systems do much better at 10mph than floored, it just is what it is.

I've had a 1991 Suburban, the last of the solid axle trucks since it was new, with 37s on it decent travel on a relativly short lift (I stretched the wells to make things work) and once I got away from the land of snow, I hardly ever used 4WD again even off road. And not too long into that truck I killed the automatic hubs and replaced them with much more durable but far less convinient manual Warns. The solid axle has a lot of front to back movement of the tire because the ball joints are so far inboard and the handling is really pretty poor if you are a spirited driver, quick ratio won't help that and it's not going to give you a vehicle that will do a good Scandinavian Flick into a dirt road turn.

The truck I'm building now will be 9" off the ground at the frame and have twice the suspension travel my Suburban had and I could sit under that truck.

[Prematuregrey]

Long Traveled Vs Stock. The truck on the left is mine and it has a front Total Chaos LT kit on it with 2" longer rear links and 1" coil lift in the rear. The truck on the right has the torsion bars turned up and 1" coil lift in the rear. Both trucks are basically lifted 1" over stock. These 2 trucks could have been built on the same day when new. My wheelbase is 2" longer and front track is 7" wider. I have around 11" front hub travel and up to 18" rear travel. Stock had only 4" hub travel and 12" rear travel I believe.


More pics of my Runner here:
http://s556.photobucket.com/user/tim...?sort=3&page=1


If you are wanting to LT an older Chevy truck like ours, you could start with a 2wd frame and look into adding a newer IFS front diff. I believe Total Chaos has something for the late 90's and up Chevy's that could quite possibly be used. There have been several good suspension manufactures mentioned in this thread. I will personally vouch for the Total Chaos reliability. There will be a lot of fabrication involved and make sure you stiffen the frame up a lot. When you think your frame is strong enough, add more chrome molly. I cannot stress enough about frame strength. I have seen diffs and front ends ripped off of trucks as they were skying them. It doesn't make for a soft landing from 20' up. Glassworks Unlimited is where I got my fiberglass from. My truck has been laid over several times and the fiberglass has held up very well so I would check with them about fenders and bedsides. You will need wider and taller fenders for a LT setup. As far as the T-Case recommendation of an AWD electronic case, screw that. Put a NP 205 in there and learn to drive on the dirt. I would leave the front diff open with a locked/spooled rear or ARB air lockers F/R. You want to know that the tires are going to grab ground and go when you hit the loud pedal, not have some computer think "well this tire is spinning so I'll send power over here".

My front end, while not cheap, has been on for almost a decade. It was said that mine was the first kit they shipped east of El Paso when I ordered it. It has since had roughly 40k of the hardest miles you can put on any vehicle pounded into it and I have had to do no repairs to it whatsoever. I did the suspension myself borrowing a buddies shop for the lift and welder in a day and a half but it came well designed and aside from needing some cutting and welding by design, it was a complete bolt on kit. I also upgraded all steering joints to MOOG HD's and have forgotten about them other than some grease. The last few years, I have gotten away from true pre-running with it and have been playing at a local off-road park that is more set up to crawling. My truck is not much of a crawler, but with twice the travel of stock and a solid skid plate it can get its ass up most level 5's. That says a lot since I'm only on 32" tires and up until recently was running open diffs. The loud pedal says "I'm going over this rock" very well. For now, she is stuck on a trailer with engine problems but I'll take the blame for that.

I'm all for your venture into wanting something to work over a Raptor, just keep in mind that it will not be an easy road unless you have a custom builder do it for you. If you are seriously planning on doing it yourself with a Chevy platform, I would start with a late model 3/4 ton 4x4 with the engine of your choosing and long travel that. While your doing the LT on it, make sure and keep your wheelbase inside the specs of our bodies and drop the cab of your choosing on it. I say cab because that is pretty much all of the body sheet metal that would be used on any true long travel conversion.

Oh yeah, did I mention strengthen the dam frame?

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by JimJones

How bad will the mileage be with the 427 with an overdrive tranny around town? Do you guys think I'd be able to pull at least 10-12mpg out of it?

I love the 427 rat motor and have had them in four different cars now but a 500 hp 427 is far from docile and will not be anywhere near fuel efficient. My 70 Chevelle made 504 hp at the flywheel with a big valve oval port 427 built very similar to the ZZ427/480 crate motor but with a more aggressive solid cam and it got 10.5 mpg on the freeway and 8 in the city with 3.31 gears in a more aerodynamic car that weighed 3900 pounds. A lifted 5000 pound 4x4 truck with 35's and a 500 hp 427 is way south of 10.5 probably closer to 7 or 8 mpg even with overdrive.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

You may want to just find a 01+ up 2500hd with a bad body and swap a body on it. You could go dmax/ally or built 6.0/4l80e and get the superior handling, ride, and reliability, economy, but with the old truck appearance. Would probably be cheapest in the long run and easier to get parts for.

My friend Wade (fakerwade on here) put a 67-72 truck body onto a 2003 vintage Tahoe chassis & drivetrain and kept a lot of the Tahoe dash & firewall too. Still a work in progress but most of the hard stuff is done.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=498570

You can pick up a base model LS 2001-2005 vintage K2500 Suburban with 150k on it for $7-9k. Don't need heated leather seats, Tri-zone HVAC and a Bose sound system for a chassis donor but the more expensive LT trim level versions could give you some nice seats to use in your truck and possibly even incorporate the Bose sound system pieces. Using the K2500 Suburban with the 6.0 LQ4 motor, 4L80E and tougher 8-lug parts already in place will save you a ton of money over using a cheaper K1500 Tahoe and having to upgrade the axles, trans & transfer case.

To make the HP you want is pretty easy on a 6.0 LS motor. ASA cam swap with some L92/LS3 heads and matching intake and you are there.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...ls376-525.html

LS376/525 = 6.2 with 525hp ~ 6.0 with 500hp

It will have the evil idle sound you want too with the duration and 110 lobe separation of the ASA spec cam.

If you want to swap out the iron truck block in your Suburban donor rig for the LS2 aluminum 6.0 block they are pretty cheap at only $1175 and will drop a good chunk of weight off the front end.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS2-...17488C646.aspx

With the money involved in putting the goodies into the 6.0 truck motor to make the HP you want you are not far off from just buying the LS376/525 crate motor instead and having a brand new engine in the process. Sell off the stock 6.0 engine to make some of your cash back.

The 427 is a great motor and I love them but they can't compare to a modern LS motor for reliability and efficiency while making great power per cubic inch. LS376/525 makes the same torque 489 vs 490 for the ZZ427 but makes 525hp vs 480 for the ZZ427.

Stepping up to a 502 doesn't make much of a dent in the hp difference but does get you over 500 and the longer stroke gets you up to 565 for torque. If you are set on the big block I would go with the ram jet 502 and toss on a set of the cool 427 valve covers.

[ho70]

just buy a Chevrolet Reaper

[67_C-30]

I don't get the obssession with the 427. The 427 is a good engine, but it is a big bore, short stroke engine that only makes that kind of power at high RPM. The high HP 427's were never known for their torque. It is exactly the opposite of what you need for a heavy 4x4 truck, especially one that is going to have OD. It would be gutless in OD with big tires. A 454/496/502 would be a much better choice for your application, if you are stuck on a BBC.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by ho70

just buy a Chevrolet Reaper

That thing has got a face only a mother could love!

[C. M. Wolf]

Please, please.. let me know if you can find a real "Crated 427 RAT" engine,(or ANY real crated GM-RAT,(Research and Technology Div.), engine, if you do find a RAT engine, you'll have more $ in the engine alone than the whole truck put together)!
Those things were snatched up by every hot-rod'er & racer that owned a Chevy or GMC as fast as the news of a person selling one came out.

...

Screw the Raptor, build it to take on Vets for pinks...

Hunt down a small block, 4bolt main engine,(that hasn't been rebuilt to death... new is always good.), 350, 327, etc.. (HD50 oil pump, & AC-Delco HD water pump.) {you might wanna start this all off on a 3/16" GM cassis/frame instead of the basic 1/8", so there's less flex... if possible. the added weight per strength is far worth it. ...or I suppose you could always "Box" your 1/8" GM frame.}
Special ground RV cam, crane valve train w/ stellite valves & hardened seats, ported & polished heads,(if you can't find someone, trusted, that can do your head-work right.. stay home 'til you can).
Cloyes True-Roller timing chain.
Holley 700 or 750 duel pumper carb,(I liked the Edelbrock 0-50 Hi-Per intake better than the Holley one. Also make sure the air filter is oversized so it breaths good.. might as well add a very good electronic fuel pump while you're at it).
If you don't run a good set of tuned headers & equally good non-restrictive turbo muffs, you're wasting time & money & the engine simply won't breath right.
Mallory HYFIRE 6AL ignition with the Mallory performance Unilite Electronic distributor. (might as well dump the alternator and convert to a magneto system instead).
The Hurst/Tremec TKO 5 Speed trans,(may not have to install a scattershield, bolts to most GM bell housings).
This way you can keep a std GM Dana full-float rear end,(or install the 3/4 ton-eight-lug so you can still use the same dif-carrier on a slightly higher gear ratio & still run tall/wide rims & tires without snapping axles or eating ring & pinion teeth.. I'd recommend Zoom-Gears, but I heard they've been sold to someone.. ?). {now the key here is to correctly ratio your rear-gears to the engine torque & trans ratio, done right, puts that power direct to the road where it belongs. Whatever ya do, go as high a set of rear gears as the diff-carrier will safely fit.. 4/10s will kill your top end & defeat the Hurst trans.}

Now, you'll only be running premium gas and you'll need to get your foot into this set up at least twice a month just to keep the carbon from choking your engine... but you'll most likely don this any way.

...

Suspension is a different subject.. are ya looking 2x4 or 4x4?



Michael

[JimJones]

In the last few months since this I started this thread I have decided to forgo the 427 in favor of a GM crate ZZ383. They are now rated at 450hp which is more than enough power. After a recent thread on here I'm leaning towards a NV4500 5 speed. I appreciate all your guys input on the powertrain even though I think some of you are messing with me a little bit. The powertrain is the easy part what can be done suspension wise to make it better than stock without having to cut up the body? It might not ever be a raptor killer but surely it can be improved upon from what they had 40 years ago?