Attn VETTEVET Cs130d conversion from 12si

[chefk85]

Ready to finish this conversion so I can breakthrough engine in. Got a Cs130d from a 98 silverado and brackets/pulley setup. The alternator is now on the passenger side. I've got some advice from Vettevet and have looked at the other conversion threads. My situation is unique in the fact the alternator switched sides. This will be for future board members information and serve as a check to make sure I'm doing this correctly.

I'm going to start with a couple of pictures of where I am. Keep in mind it's just mocked up at this point.

After studying Vettevet 's diagram and advice it appears to me that I should be able to keep the existing wiring from the soldered junction but remove the old alternator power lead. Hook up the new power lead to a junction block on the passenger side fender well with fusible link. Run a charge wire to the battery from there with fusible link. Can I hook up the one side of the battery Guage fused black wire there? Then keep the other one downstream at the soldered junction to be my shunt? So then am I supposed to run my cab wiring to the battery postitive?? or to the junction block. You can kind of see how ive laid it there in the 1st picture fusible link is the bluish wire red charge wire to batt positive and the other red wire is the cab power

I would then extend my voltage sensing wire to the S pin on the alternator and brown wire to pin L? Is that right. Don't have it sitting in front of me but per the plug I have it will connect where it is supposed to anyway. I will solder in a resistor I bought 3 Watt 75ohm.

Second picture is of the solder junction and the old plug to the external regulator with some sort of what i think is a conversion cap that routes power where it needs to go .Is there something I need to do with the old blue wire and white wire that come from that plug? Also looks as if there's a black wire in that harness. I haven't traced it yet but looks as if it may ground to the rad support.

Let's start here.

Thanks
Chefk85

[VetteVet]

I moved my alternator to the passenger side as well, but my main junction is below the left headlight mounted to the radiator support. I kept the fusible link by the battery positive and ran the battery charge wire from the right fender over to the main junction. That keeps the battery, alternator, shunt the same as the stock one. The battery gauge wire for the battery stays in the same place, and the other side of the battery gauge wire I ran from the main junction where it is connected to the alternator main charge wire. This is the same as having the stock soldered junction but is much better.




Running your alternator charging wire to the right fender junction is basically the same as running it directly to the battery positive post. It will eliminate the ability of the battery gauge to indicate the voltage difference between the battery and the alternator.

You should upgrade your alternator charging wire to at least a 10 gauge and 8 gauge would be better. The CS alternator is capable of much more current output than the SI and the 12 gauge would work for stock loads but you start adding cooling fans, AC, stereo amp, headlight halogen bulbs,etc. You need the larger wire. The voltage sensing wire should be as far away from the alternator output stud as possible to indicate to the internal regulator what the voltage drop is downstream from the alternator so it can compensate for that.

The brown wire can be extended from it's original location to the L terminal just as you said with the resistor soldered inline to protect the alternator diodes.

I have read that some of the later alternators only had the brown wire connected with no sensing wire and that sensing was done internally in the alternator. I believe it was after 1994 but din't quote me on that.

[chefk85]

Alright. Thanks for the reply. Im just not understanding and looking at your picture confuses me more as im not sure what wire is what on your junction.

For some reason i was under the impression by looking at your wiring diagrams that i could just extend the sensing wire to S and brown wire resistor in place to L. Then run my power feed from Alt which is 8 guage per your reccomendation to the junction. Then another wire(10 ga) from the junction to batt posistive(both of these with correct size fusible links)

That would deliver power to junction and from there to batt positive. The sensing wire would then sense voltage drop from the original soldered junction which is downstream. The alternator is from a 98 truck so maybe your right with it sensing voltage internally but might require the PCM? The harness does only have one brown wire but the other pins are there on the alternator female input.

then by connecting the battery guage black wire at the junction block or batt positive would essentially be the same as it was originally as the other is at the soldered junction. So it would read voltage between soldered junction and battery.

Im going crazy trying to figure this out...


So are you saying i should relocate my junction to drivers side and run an 8 guage from alt power output to junction along the rad support? Then extend said brown and sensing wire? Then run cab power from junction block to cab with fusible link? Keep black batt guage wire at batt positive as that will act as stock shunt? run charging wire from junction to battery with fusible link.

[chefk85]

Moved junction to drivers side rad support...going from there. that 8 guage isnt cheap but uill go get some more tomorrow morning and we can go from there. we can get a step by step thing going and that would really help me and future board members too

[VetteVet]

You outlined it pretty good in post 3. The shunt is actually the charging wire, 10 gauge that links the battery with the alternator and also lets the battery power things when the alternator quits charging or while the engine is off. Basically what you are doing is replacing the old soldered junction with a better style.

I don't know if you've seen this diagram or not but I'll show you the shunt and a diagram with the main junction in it.

This shows the Shunt I.E, the charging wire and the circled fuses for the battery gauge wires. The three red wire junction just to the left of the botom circle is the soldered junction.




this one shows the modified wiring with a distribution block(main junction) and all the necessary wiring.



The fans and headlights are wired in to the main junction and fused accordingly.

[chefk85]

Thanks. So as of now it doesnt quite look like it is in the idagram. Let me see if i can explain to you what i have going.

I have the alt power wire going from alt to junction block on its own post with correct fusible link at the junction block side.

I have the batt charge wire going from its own post on junction to batt positive with fusible link. I thought you had said previously that i could eliminate the junction BOLT all together? If i need to run the charge wire to junction bolt and fusible link from there to battery i will.

I have one half of the batt guage wire(fused black ones) going to junction block onthe same stud as the charge wire. The passenger side batt guage wire going to battery positive with the charge wire. Again if i need to run charge wire to junstion BOLT and fusible link to battery positive i will run the batt guage wire to the junction bolt.

Then for the old exterbal reg plug. I havent done anything with it yet. Should i then be able to take the brown wire and red wire from the FEMALE side(where the wires go INTO the original plug) and extend? or do i need to come off the side where it plugged into the REG? EDIT HERE: the red wire came from the soldered junction to the plug....So its just kind of hanging out unhooked to anything but the reg plug input. Im assuming i just run the sensing wire from the junction block to the alt and cut the brown wire for the ammeter at the plug and extend to alt.

At this point where i am now the old soldered junction is completely gone.

One more i forgot was the red cab power wire. It goes straight from the junction into the cab. There was no inline fuse to begin with so i am assuming there doesnt need to be one. maybe it is fused on the cab side of the firewall. I havent looked.

Thanks for your patience. As io have a different looking junction than you and im only seeing the junction itself and no pics of battery side of compartment I am struggling with understanding what you have going on in your truck.

Thankls again ,

chefk85

[chefk85]

And I think it finally all makes sense. The junction is now the soldered joint. All of those wires were touching initially so it doesn't matter where the go on the junction block.

I'm just upgrading and extending the power wire and extending the sensing wire and the ammeter wire.

Illbattach the fusible link to the junction bolt and run it to batt positive. Run the charge wire to junction bolt as well as the batt Guage wire. Presto, just like stock routing but with a junction block instead of solder joint

Did I finally get it right?

[VetteVet]

.................................................................................................... ....

Originally Posted by chefk85

Thanks. So as of now it doesnt quite look like it is in the idagram. Let me see if i can explain to you what i have going.

I have the alt power wire going from alt to junction block on its own post with correct fusible link at the junction block side. This is correct


I have the batt charge wire going from its own post on junction to batt positive with fusible link. I thought you had said previously that i could eliminate the junction BOLT all together? If i need to run the charge wire to junction bolt and fusible link from there to battery i will. You have to have a place to connect the charge wire and the fusible link and the battery gauge wire together. The bolt is the best place for this.

I have one half of the batt guage wire(fused black ones) going to junction block on the same stud as the charge wire. Yes this is the alternator wire to the battery gauge and it will go to the gauge cluster in the cab. To terminal 12

The passenger side batt guage wire going to battery positive with the charge wire. Again if i need to run charge wire to junction BOLT and fusible link to battery positive i will run the battery guage wire to the junction bolt. Yes just as I said above , connect all three to the junction bolt, and run the battery gauge wire into the cab to the cluster plug to terminal 1.

Then for the old exterbal reg plug. I havent done anything with it yet. Should i then be able to take the brown wire and red wire from the FEMALE side(where the wires go INTO the original plug) and extend? Yes the brown wire comes from the firewall block to the evr plug and it must go to the alternator L terminal with the resistor soldered inline. How you do that is up to you. I ran mine from the cab (firewall block) to the main junction and then ran it to the alternator L terminal. You can eliminate the EVR and the plug if you do it that way.

or do i need to come off the side where it plugged into the REG? EDIT HERE: the red wire came from the soldered junction to the plug....So its just kind of hanging out unhooked to anything but the reg plug input. Im assuming i just run the sensing wire from the junction block to the alt and cut the brown wire for the ammeter at the plug and extend to alt. Yes that is the best way to do it. 12 gauge is plenty big enough for the red wire and 16 is enough for the brown wire.

At this point where i am now the old soldered junction is completely gone. Good

One more i forgot was the red cab power wire. It goes straight from the junction into the cab. There was no inline fuse to begin with so i am assuming there doesnt need to be one. maybe it is fused on the cab side of the firewall. I havent looked. You assume correctly. It goes into the cab and splits into three wires . One goes to the key switch, one goes to the horn relay, one goes to the fuse panel, and the last one goes to the headlight switch.

Thanks for your patience. As I have a different looking junction than you and I'm only seeing the junction itself and no pics of battery side of compartment I am struggling with understanding what you have going on in your truck.

My main junction is just a large terminal block with individual connections, I had to run jumpers to connect the alternator power, battery charge, cab, alternator sensing, and battery (alternator half) gauge wires together.
I have the same electrically except I wired in a battery cutoff switch on the cables and the charge wire as a theft deterrent.
If you could see my main junction better you would see that the alternator power wire, the battery charge wire, the red sensing wire, and the cab power wire are all wired to it and they must all be connected. The other side of the battery gauge black/white stripe wire is also connected here and it is also connected to the rest of the wires.Any other powered stuff you have will also have to be connected here, fans extra lights etc. I have some wires that join here but they are not connected to the main power wires.


Here is the diagram of the basic way to wire this.


,

chefk85

[chefk85]

Alright! Truck is all wired up. Everything seems to be working. I will need to either purchase the alternator pigtail that already has the brown and red wires or find the small female pin type connector to add to the plug. Right now I have the 12 ga sensing wire shoved through the hole I drilled in the plug and it seems to be working but its a half assed solution.


A couple issues I have going on after all of this wiring are:

1. with key on engine off I have a faint high pitched electrical hum coming from the alternator. Not a huge deal since it doesn't do it with key off. Still, wondering why this is.

2. I have no passenger side front marker, side marker, or blinker. Ive kind of traced the wires. Looks like a blue and brown for the front marker and it was getting too dark to look at side marker. All other lights work and are bright. I am missing 1 reverse light but I suspect a bulb.

I cleaned grounds while I was doing this engine swap including batt to engine block, firewall to back of head, passenger headlight to rad support, and cab to frame. Any ideas with this and should I start another thread about this or is it okay to do so here? I will get my test light out this weekend and check for power to passenger side wires.

Thanks a lot for all the help Vettevet. Everything seems to be going fairly well and the L31 is putting smiles on my face already.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by chefk85

Alright! Truck is all wired up. Everything seems to be working. I will need to either purchase the alternator pigtail that already has the brown and red wires or find the small female pin type connector to add to the plug. Right now I have the 12 ga sensing wire shoved through the hole I drilled in the plug and it seems to be working but its a half assed solution.


A couple issues I have going on after all of this wiring are:

1. with key on engine off I have a faint high pitched electrical hum coming from the alternator. Not a huge deal since it doesn't do it with key off. Still, wondering why this is.

Did you solder the resister in the brown L wire, It sounds like you are powering the fields in the alternator too much and it may be trying to motor.


2. I have no passenger side front marker, side marker, or blinker. Ive kind of traced the wires. Looks like a blue and brown for the front marker and it was getting too dark to look at side marker. All other lights work and are bright. I am missing 1 reverse light but I suspect a bulb.

I'd look at the socket grounds on the front signal light and the marker light.
The brown wire is the power wire for the parking and marker lights and the dark blue is the passenger light turn signal wire.

I cleaned grounds while I was doing this engine swap including batt to engine block, firewall to back of head, passenger headlight to rad support, and cab to frame. Any ideas with this and should I start another thread about this or is it okay to do so here? I will get my test light out this weekend and check for power to passenger side wires.

It's your thread you can do what you think best. If it was some huge problem it is best to start another thread, but a light not working is not too big a deal.


Thanks a lot for all the help Vettevet. Everything seems to be going fairly well and the L31 is putting smiles on my face already.

That's why they pay me the big bucks.

[chefk85]

Yes I soldered a resistor 3 Watt 75ohm about 4 inches from alternator inline with brown wire. This is the brown wire that went to regulator plug. Ammeter was right in the middle when I looked. I haven't paid too much attention to it as I'm making sure the new engine is doing what it's supposed to. Does this mean I need a bigger resistor? It's a barrel type like you would solder into a circuit board. The ignition seems to work fine i.e. I can turn the truck off. Is this somewhat of a concern. I want it to be right.

I looked at the painless kit and the instruction sheet they provide online at summit. Looks to be they're using a larger 5 watt 82 ohm resistor. I saw where you explained this in another thread. I also see that it looks like they run the sensing wire to I instead of S. What's with that? Mine is going to S or the bottom pin on the alternator plug.

I will check grounds. I know it's usually a ground issue. Going to check for power there first though. They worked beforehand so I think it's something I did whiLe messing around with the wiring.

[VetteVet]

While doing some research on the CS 130 alternators I read that some of the newer versions don't have a sensing wire and some of them have an internal resistor. It mentioned that the sensing was done by the PCM ( computer) AKA the ECM (electronic control module).
If yours is a 98 model I would assume that it is in that category. I believe that when one does the conversion to an earlier vehicle without the PCM (powertrain control module),that it would be needed. Some of the members that have made the conversion say that the 94 and newer models only had one brown wire going to the alternator and were working fine. They might have been using the computer though. The internal resistor in the newer models would eliminate that requirement.

The I terminal was used for a Tach on the newer vehicles. I will double check that.

I have heard that some guys have used any resistor from 50 ohm/3 watt to a 300 ohm /.5 watt and had good results. I think your resistor will be OK but you can try the 85 ohm. I know about painless" recommendation I have their website manual on my hard drive.

[chefk85]

Well okay. I'm not going to run a pcm obviously but is there a fix or do I start looking for a different alternator that will fit my stock 98 brackets?

[chefk85]

Heres another conversion kit from lectric https://www.lectriclimited.com/resto...-harness-93010

It only shows what I'm guessing is the brown wire. Maybe the sense wire isn't needed after all? Maybe it's feeding power from the junction block back though the alternator

[VetteVet]

All the conversions I have read say you need the sensing wire and the exciter wire (Brown)
with the resistor and without the computer so I would go with that. I also read about some of them humming like yours with the key on and some with the key off and draining the battery. Both problems were because of blown diodes in the alternator.
I would recommend the CS 144 if you get a new one. It will bolt right in and has more amperage output. Do you know how to check for bad diodes?

If not the local Autozone will check the alternator for free.

If you have a multi-meter then it's easy. just put the red lead on the alternator output post and the black lead on the body and look for an infinity or no reading and then reverse the leads on the meter and look for a zero or very low reading. Do that for the L and the S terminals as well.

[chefk85]

Okay great. I'll test it tomorrow. I was checking output ealier with engine running. I was reading around 14.5 v with headlights off and around 14.45 with them on. I checked periodically for 5 minutes with lights on and never saw an increase in voltage. In fact it dropped off just little to around 14.4. I did see the battery Guage move for the first time after running headlights for a bit. It did seem to point a little to the charging side. I did occasional revs of the engine while conducting this test as well to try and convince the alternator to put out more amps. I suppose my battery could just have been mostly charged and therefore didn't require a high output from the alternator. I'll add this. When I first got the alternator wiring finished and started the truck after multiple test fires with no alternator the alternator output was just shy of 15 volts. I believe it's charging but will check diodes tomorrow. As always I really appreciate your help. We really need to pay you more

Kellen