Another nv4500 swap

[jonessmc87]

Well the beast is a 89 v3500 that i bought out of texas with 78k miles on it. Has every option known to man, and they all work now after much cussing and wire tracing. I love the truck but its my DD and going to college 7 hours away from home makes for a very long trip back with the th400 and 4.10s. i usually keep her right at 2500 which is a mind blowing 58 miles and hour. I've made the trip six times now in the truck and she handles it fine but i really wanna do the speed limit and keep those rpms down.
I got a hydraulic clutch pedal assembly off craigslist and this weekend i'll be picking up a nv4500 with bellhousing out of a 98 K3500 GMC. The truck already has the 32 spline np205 in it, so all i need is the cheap adapter from AA to bolt the 205 to nv4500. I'm going to use the internal slave so i just need to make my own line to go from the master to the slave.

When i bought it.


How it sits now

[DirtyLarry]

Good looking truck and great upgrade for it! My ’78 K10 was originally an automatic then got a 465 4-speed 12 years ago before it going through the NV4500 surgery underway now.

You are brave man if you leave the yard and introduce such a clean survivor truck to all that road salt used out there in the East! It will look like a native truck within a couple years.

[jonessmc87]

larry dont you worry, this is the only winter this truck is going to see probably and i give it a bath more frequently than myself i think. She has the typical undercoat concoction of linseed oil, diesel fuel, and 2 stroke oil.

[duallyjams]

Thats a really clean truck.

[snj8198]

sharp rig!

[jonessmc87]

So i got the goodies two nights ago. I figure $600 to my door is fair for a complete trans, shifter, floor boot and ring, bellhousing, clutch fork, slave cyliner, used clutch and flywheel, and dust cover.

Only problem is that this appears to be the older nv4500 because it has the external slave cylinder, so i'm going to have to return the clutch and new slave that i already bought. Its good that the new clutch will be 100 bucks cheaper than the one i already bought.

I have an sm465 crossmember but im not sure if i'm gonna use that or the th400 one.

i also dug out an old 205 shifter so i can play around with making my own bracket on top of the new trans.

I spent quite a bit of time under the truck today measuring and it appears that the length of the th400 and np205 adapter is within .75 inches of the nv4500 bellhousing + trans+ 1.625in transfer case adapter from advance adapters. So this means the rear driveshaft wont have to change length, i just might have to scootch the carrier bearing back on the crossmember some, but GM was nice enough to give me very long slots.

[jonessmc87]

well, i've been busy with class and such but i got pi$$ed off / motivated enough thursday night to start this swap. So once i drove home from class friday at noon i tore into it. It was back on the road saturday afternoon. Keep in mind this was all done outside in Rochester where it was a balmy 20 or so degrees.

I learned while doing this that my my new driveline is only 1/4 inch longer than my old one, which meant i had enough space in carrier bearing adjustment to use all the same driveshafts, AND (this may be common knowledge but i just figured it out) when using the bellhousing for a early 90s five speed with the external slave and a 32 spline np205 and the advance adapter spacer, the trans crossmember is in the EXACT same spot as the th400/205 combo. hell, the part numbers for the tranny mounts are even the same. so i was able to use the th400 crossmember and trans mount under the nv4500 with the same driveshafts. This swap could not have been easier.













the hired help. he works for beer.











the frankenclutch. i bought a clutch, a slave, and a clutch line for a 94k3500. I used the master from my 89V3500. only problem was that i had to make my own adapter to go in the 89 master to receive the fancy roll pin style clutch line. about an hour on the lathe and mill netted me this, and she hasn't leaked yet...



I'll have get more pictures of the final product tomorrow. It was too cold to take pictures when i was putting it back together. i had her up to 80mph last night which was amazing because this truck has never seen over 60.
80mph was 300 rpm less than what 58 used to be. now i have no problem taking her on the highway.

Sorry i didnt explain more, but if anybody has any questions just ask them and i'll tell you as much as i know.

[DirtyLarry]

Jonessmc87,

Sounds like it turned out great! I remember those days wrenching outside freezing to death. Member Zoomad75 and I did a TH350 to SM465 in my truck back in 1998 under a car port in Detroit in January. Not fun. Dudes are much more resilient to that punishment when they are younger.

Your recipe is much better than mine. I wish I could have found a round pattern 205 to use instead of the AA kit I went with. I am going to continue my search for a round 205 to have around in case something goes wrong with this contraption so I have a backup plan for the next go around.

I think you will like the external slave in the long run. How is the clearance between the slave and front drive shaft?

Lucky break on not having to rework driveshafts. That alone saved you a few hundred bucks.

Looking forward to more pictures. Looks great so far.

[duallyjams]

Definitely want to see more pics ( np205 shifter ) hint hint.

[jonessmc87]

I dont have any pics of the 205 shifter yet because im still waiting on the 205 shifter bracket from advance adapters, should be here monday. I couldnt use the big square boot like larry because it interferred with the stock location of the 205 shifter and boot, so a 11$ mr gasket seems to work right now just sitting there. I was using a towel for a few days cuz the cab was kinda drafty.

Theres miles of clearance for the front driveshaft and the slave with the 4 inch lift, the only thing i dont like is the fact that part of that clutch line is plastic. i re bent most of the steel part of the line but the plastic was still a pain to work with and i think its still resting on the back of my passenger side head, which i need to address.

I made my own shifter for the trans because the stock shifter for the nv besides being hideous hit my seat in second fourth and reverse. so i made one to kinda look like the sm465 shifter, but i made it taller and bent it where i wanted it. im using a spare 205 shift knob right now because i cant seem to find a matching 5 speed knob anywhere. i still gotta paint it and make a nice retaining plate for both boots.

[lindstromjd]

Nice write up!! Love your truck, btw. What's under your hood?

[jonessmc87]

just the stock 454 with tbi. Shes not in best of shape but i think most of the wear and tear came from the previous high rpms on the highway. As long as it runs its good enough for now. I might built a quick/cheap one over the summer but im not sure yet.

[jonessmc87]

well i got about 350 miles on it so far with no real issues. Only thing i have left to do is obtain a male plug for the reverse light switch in the trans so i can get rid of my auto shifter (aka my reverse light lever). I also need to make a bracket to beef up the overpriced advance adapters np205 shifter bracket because the first time I used it it bent. I remeber seeing people other than dirtylarry mentioning how flimsy it looked but i figured it would be good enough for the amount that i use 4wd. wrong.

fyi i have a 2 inch body lift which i think made this swap possible. I definitely wouldnt try and do this on truck without a BL, I would be real curious to see what kind of clearance other people have between trans and floor as far as room for your hand to get at bolts and such.

heres a picture of how the interior looks now.



I made the np205 about 6 inches longer and when i made the sm465 ish looking shifter for the nv4500 i made it extra long too. i might do something different for a nv4500 boot. maybe an old round one. not sure, but until i figure it out, i wont make trim rings for them.

[snj8198]

It's nicer rowing through the NV gears than the 465's isn't it?!

[jonessmc87]

in case your all curious, i made the 800 mile round trip from school to home to school this past weekend. I kept her on the highway at 75 mph which in my scenario is 2050-2100 rpm. She got anywhere from 8.8 - 10.0 mpg. no improvement in milage but the extra 20 mph is definitley worth the money.

[70custom20]

Originally Posted by jonessmc87

well, i've been busy with class and such but i got pi$$ed off / motivated enough thursday night to start this swap. So once i drove home from class friday at noon i tore into it. It was back on the road saturday afternoon. Keep in mind this was all done outside in Rochester where it was a balmy 20 or so degrees.

I learned while doing this that my my new driveline is only 1/4 inch longer than my old one, which meant i had enough space in carrier bearing adjustment to use all the same driveshafts, AND (this may be common knowledge but i just figured it out) when using the bellhousing for a early 90s five speed with the external slave and a 32 spline np205 and the advance adapter spacer, the trans crossmember is in the EXACT same spot as the th400/205 combo. hell, the part numbers for the tranny mounts are even the same. so i was able to use the th400 crossmember and trans mount under the nv4500 with the same driveshafts. This swap could not have been easier.













the hired help. he works for beer.











the frankenclutch. i bought a clutch, a slave, and a clutch line for a 94k3500. I used the master from my 89V3500. only problem was that i had to make my own adapter to go in the 89 master to receive the fancy roll pin style clutch line. about an hour on the lathe and mill netted me this, and she hasn't leaked yet...



I'll have get more pictures of the final product tomorrow. It was too cold to take pictures when i was putting it back together. i had her up to 80mph last night which was amazing because this truck has never seen over 60.
80mph was 300 rpm less than what 58 used to be. now i have no problem taking her on the highway.

Sorry i didnt explain more, but if anybody has any questions just ask them and i'll tell you as much as i know.

jonessmc87, did the imput shaft on your 205 T/C slide directly onto the output shaft splines of the NV 4500 splines? And if so, that was with the
1 5/8" AA adapter installed?

[jonessmc87]

Yes, the splines slide right on. The adapter is just a spacer pretty much. i didnt take the time to measure, but when i looked at the trans output and t/c input there didnt seem to be enough male to female interaction possible to just bolt the t/c right up to the back of the trans. You could make the spacer your self if you have the means, as long as you get the lip depths and diameters right for holding itself in the trans. In fact, i almost decided to make one myself after i got the AA one because i wasnt happy with the part because the casting was kinda porous.

[70custom20]

The reason I ask is because I was wondering if you took an old school 10 spline 205 T/C and converted it to the 32 spline TH 400 short from NorthWest fabworks if you could get away without using an adapter?

Billet NP205 Bolt Pattern Adapter
Billet Bolt Pattern Adapters
(All Prices In US Funds)



GM NP205 Fig8 to GM NP205 Round






Figure 8 to Round Pattern Adapter:


Machined out of billet steel to adapt a GM Figure 8 Large Bore NP205 to a GM Round 6 bolt pattern Transmission Adapter (also used to adapt a BlackBox to a Fig.8 Large Bore NP205). Adapter is 5/8" thick and includes mounting hardware (shown in picture).









GM NP205 Fig. 8 - GM NP205 Round $175.00

NP205 Input Gears - All Types!






NP205 Input Gears:


We carry all types of NP205 input gears to suit your transmission swap or dual transfer case swap. The Female 32 spline TH400 Short and Ford 31 spline input gears are compatible with the NP203/NP205 Dual Transfer Case Kit








NP205 Input Gear Pricing:

32 spline TH400 style (Short): $149.00 USD
/w New input bearing and Seal: $184.00 USD

32 spline TH400 style (Long): $155.00 USD
/w New input bearing and Seal: $190.00 USD
(Out of Stock)

[jonessmc87]

I honestly have no idea. I've done alot of research on this because i wanted to have my ducks in a row so i could get it done in a day. I never came across an example of anybody doing what you suggested but i dont know if thats because nobody thought of it, or because this kit, which comes with other doodads like a T/C shifter bracket (which will bend btw) is only another 200 bucks or so compared to an new input shaft and other adapter.

http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/pn-50-0217/

I tried looking on AA for the parts you put up there but without seeing a picture of the parts i don't want to tell you either way.

[70custom20]

Here are the links to the pictures on NorthWest fab's site. I would need to get all of the dimentions to see if this swap would/could actually work. http://www.northwestfab.com/tcaseadapters.html
http://www.northwestfab.com/input.html

[duallyjams]

I believe what northwest fab sells are clocking rings ( so you can rotate your transfer case ) DI4x4 and ORD plus others all sell there own. Advance adapters is for making miss match combo work together.