Worst vehicle for spark plug, oil change or tune up?

['63GENIII]

Ive been getting back into side jobs lately and have had to start using the "Moon Van" a lot more. Well after about a week of driving it, it developed a pretty consistent miss. Idle or under load. I was pretty sure that it needed plugs and coil packs which I somewhat dread doing.

Im gonna come clean here and hope that I don't get banished from the site for blasphemy.... Its a Ford, and a '97 at that. You know the ones. They shoot spark plugs out when the 3 threads that hold them in give way which dooms the owner to try and Helicoil the hole that cannot be seen without a periscope and a mirror. Good times there! The ones that are supposed to go until just out of warranty before the plugs are due for replacement. Enter the 5.4 Triton.

Ok. Now that Im no longer living in denial and have just spilled my guts to you guys about my alternative drivestyle , I feel free and I can get on with it.

As I was replacing the plugs, using every ratchet, extension, u joint and expletive that I had just to remove the coil packs, cleaning every hole of the insane amount of dirt to keep the cylinders from turning into hour glasses, I got to thinking. This has to be the worst vehicle to tune up... Ever.

Then I thought about the turbo Subaru that needed the motor mounts unbolted to jack up the engine so the plugs can be accessed. 4 cylinders took a day to do. I had to redo them as well because I used the wrong gap setting and didn't realize it until I was completely done. That was definitely worse than the Ferd. The Triton only took 4 hours for 8 but came with 8 opportunities to strip out the threads and we all know how much fun that would be. Kinda like playing the lottery in reverse .

I came to appreciate the Big Block in the truck, the LS in the Denali, the Vortec in the boat and even my Daughter's little Mazda with the plugs staring right at ya when you open the hood.

So what says all of you? Your worst spark plug changes? Heck, lets expand it to oil changes and tune ups too! Should be a few funny stories to be told.

[burnin oil]

Ford ranger 2.3l 4cyl with 8 spark plugs. The 4 you can actually see are for emmisions and the 4 you actually need to change are barried and out of site. Not to mention the fuel injected motors are anemic compared to the older carb version that only had 4 plugs. Every time I came home on leave and saw 2 packs of Autolites in the garage I knew what dad was having me do.

[Steeveedee]

Those Italian vehicles that have to have the rear body panels removed so that the engine/transaxle assembly can be removed to do the 30k mile tuneup has that Subaru beat, hands-down. Thankfully, I never had to work on them, though I have seen the work done.

I worked on some vehicles in the '70s that had high-dollar tune-up money, like the V-8 Chevy Monzas. Those things had a reputation, but were a piece of cake IRL. I could do a tuneup on one in 45 minutes, where book time was over 3 hours.

400 or 455 GTOs and the Firebirds were a real sweetheart for plugs, with AC. I had special socket setups for #6 and #8 plugs on those. Getting to them past the AC box was pretty special.

The Datsun NAPS-Z engine with 8 plugs were a blue steel beeyotch, too, as I recall.

I stayed focused on the big trucks from a welding company that we had a regular account with. I could flat-rate a front brake job (hang and turn, complete with new wheel cylinders and bleed, and pack the wheel bearings) on the 50- and 60-series trucks in as little as 45 minutes. Flat rate was 3.1+ hours. The rear brakes (15" X 6") were a real deal, since they took longer. In the early '80s I could make $30 an hour on those brake jobs, but only saw a few a week, sad to say. Man, that was back-breaking work. My back hurts to this day!

[shp4man]

Don't make me think about work on my day off, dammit. I guess the worst plug change is an early 5.4 three valve Ford with mega miles on it. Every one of the damn plugs will break if it's not done just right.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by burnin oil

Ford ranger 2.3l 4cyl with 8 spark plugs. The 4 you can actually see are for emmisions and the 4 you actually need to change are barried and out of site. Not to mention the fuel injected motors are anemic compared to the older carb version that only had 4 plugs. Every time I came home on leave and saw 2 packs of Autolites in the garage I knew what dad was having me do.

Had to look that bugger up. Never had one but they look like a joy to work on!

Originally Posted by Steeveedee

Those Italian vehicles that have to have the rear body panels removed so that the engine/transaxle assembly can be removed to do the 30k mile tuneup has that Subaru beat, hands-down. Thankfully, I never had to work on them, though I have seen the work done.

I worked on some vehicles in the '70s that had high-dollar tune-up money, like the V-8 Chevy Monzas. Those things had a reputation, but were a piece of cake IRL. I could do a tuneup on one in 45 minutes, where book time was over 3 hours.

400 or 455 GTOs and the Firebirds were a real sweetheart for plugs, with AC. I had special socket setups for #6 and #8 plugs on those. Getting to them past the AC box was pretty special.

The Datsun NAPS-Z engine with 8 plugs were a blue steel beeyotch, too, as I recall.

I stayed focused on the big trucks from a welding company that we had a regular account with. I could flat-rate a front brake job (hang and turn, complete with new wheel cylinders and bleed, and pack the wheel bearings) on the 50- and 60-series trucks in as little as 45 minutes. Flat rate was 3.1+ hours. The rear brakes (15" X 6") were a real deal, since they took longer. In the early '80s I could make $30 an hour on those brake jobs, but only saw a few a week, sad to say. Man, that was back-breaking work. My back hurts to this day!

Taking the engine out for a 30k? Happy I can't afford one of those

Originally Posted by shp4man

Don't make me think about work on my day off, dammit. I guess the worst plug change is an early 5.4 three valve Ford with mega miles on it. Every one of the damn plugs will break if it's not done just right.

Sorry for bringing up work on the weekend. Didn't the early ones have timing chains on the front and rear of the engine or was that something different?

We had an Expedition that shot a plug out at 50k. Luckily warranty bought a couple of new heads for it. That car went down the road asap.

The van has been a great work truck but i knew id have to do the plugs sooner or later. 53k after buying it, finally did it. Worried about breaking or stripping one the whole time.

[special-K]

I don't wrench for a living and never owned anything new enough that engineers drew up using their middle finger. I had a girlfriend move in back in '10 who was driving a '96 Eddie Bauer Expedition. I took one look under the hood. It looked like we would be staying together so I told her that thing had to go! . I found her a nice clean '01 4-Runner V6. Not too bad to work on for a newer vehicle. Plugs were no problem. She still drives it, but hasn't lived here for years anyway

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by special-K

"engineers drew up using their middle finger."

Sorry about the ex Tim but thank you for that line. Consider it stolen .

It describes most of if not all the jobs that my crew and I have been assigned lately. Im LMAO and can't wait to use that at work!

[special-K]

LOL! Glad to make you laugh. You can make it yours all you want. I just now made it up. When I work on anything newer it never seems to take long before a start grumbling to myself* about the designers of that vehicle. I always say. "Back in the day the engineers were given their objectives and went to work on making something from them. They'd get a blueprint done and be patting themselves on their backs, then one would say, "Hey guys, how will a mechanic get his hand in their to get that bolt out?". "Oh yeah, hmmm...", they'd all be scratching their chins then say, "Back to the drawing board". Then at some point it changed to, "Screw 'em", and they all have a good laugh! I swear that's the truth!

*Gall dern buncha tiny handed never been under the hood Hush Puppy wearin' pencil pushers. I'd like to see one of them fix this thing with with that piece of paper!

As far as Brenda goes. We just don't live together. She's a nice 35 minute drive away now. Not a bad situation at all

[yuccales]

3.0 V-6 Mitsubishi Montero.... sucks!

[95 S_Trucker]

Those DOHC Subarus ain't bad at all. I can do those all day long. You need to get some wobble extensions.

I don't like the Japanese cars where the intake manifold has to come off.

I hide from the 2007 and earlier ford 3 valve engines. I won't change plugs in them. I tell the customer we will both be happier if they don't get changed.

[GOPAPA]

When the wife and I was were raising our two gradeschool kids we went out and bought a small car for her to drive to work ,,and use like a soccer mom car,, It was a old Murcury Linx station wagon 1973 or early 80ies and I had to take a chisel and cut the oil filter out as it was on so tight.. No room next to the fire wall for my hands or any of the 3 different sizes of oil filter wrenches I had . and the 1.4 or what ever engine it was was way so guttless for the 7% mile long hill we had to come up from the town we lived by ..soon as we could afford it we sold it and bought a Mini Van Voyager .

[FleetsidePaul]

Fun Fun Fun. P.I.T.A. to get to anything.

[Matt Man]

2nd gen s10 spark plugs nightmare

[rpmerf]

A couple I can think of, none from personal experience.
There was a mustang in the early 70's that the engine had to be lifted to change the plugs.

One of those 00s ford engines, the plugs like to break off in the head. Apparently, you need to change the plugs while the engine is hot so the metal is expanded more.

Subaru has the 'ring of fire' where you need to reach between exhaust pipes to get at the oil filter.

More manufactures are putting the starter under the intake. It lasts longer due to less heat from the exhaust.

Cars like the 90's 300ZX and Dodge Stealth / Mitsubishi 3000GT with twin turbos were known for having very cramped engine bays.

Some fun ones I've seen:
To replace the alternator on my integra, I ended up removing 1 of the 5 engine mounts and the brake master cylinder.

On my wife's corolla, the tensioner bolt broke. Apparently a common problem. Fun part is the bolt is on the back side of the engine and about 1.5" from the frame rail. Ended up removing the mount and jacking up the engine to get at it.

[Stocker]

Following this thread and counting my lucky stars. My personal worst was the 80s Astro van I mentioned in a previous thread. Awfully hard to change plugs without skinned knuckles & back of your hands. Doesn't hold a candle to some of the horror stories here, and I think I may have only done the job a couple times.

I've only owned about 20 vehicles in 50+ years and several of them had small block Chevies under the hood.

[BR3W CITY]

Thermostat on any of the early VW Vr6 variations, you basically have to pull a head.

[Keith Seymore]

Chevy Monza with a V8.

You have to either jack the engine up, or drill holes in the fender inner structure.

K

[3757chevy]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Chevy Monza with a V8.

You have to either jack the engine up, or drill holes in the fender inner structure.

K

That's the one I remember.

[95 S_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Matt Man

2nd gen s10 spark plugs nightmare

Those are easy. Go through the wheel well.

[Steeveedee]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Chevy Monza with a V8.

You have to either jack the engine up, or drill holes in the fender inner structure.

K

I loved working on those! ~3.1 hours by the book for a tuneup, and you only have to remove two bolts on the driver's side motor mount to the frame, and raise the engine. Those plugs are right there next to that crazy cover they put over the steering rag joint. I could knock those tune ups out in 45 minutes flat, including changing the distributor cap and rotor. Good money, right there! Now I'm old and it takes me 10 minutes to get the HEI cap off my truck.

[Bonestock3ott]

I remember working a part time job in the mid to late eighties at a repair shop/ used car lot and many GM MIDSIZE ( MONTE CARLO, CUTLASS, GRAND PRIX, REGAL) would come in with a skip/miss. These cars with the Buick 3.1 V6 with AC, many had one brand of spark plug in the drivers side and another brand usually Original AC'S on the passenger side because of the AC Compressor. If memory is correct, the passenger side was more difficult than the drivers side but not horrendous. Was probably more of a tech just trying to move more vehicles through their bay than to deal with the PITA.

[davischevy]

My 71 Corvette big block with factory air.

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by 95 S_Trucker

Those DOHC Subarus ain't bad at all. I can do those all day long. You need to get some wobble extensions.

I don't like the Japanese cars where the intake manifold has to come off.

I hide from the 2007 and earlier ford 3 valve engines. I won't change plugs in them. I tell the customer we will both be happier if they don't get changed.

I keep hearing about those Ferds. I think they were the ones with 2 timing sets in the front and 2 in the back. Remember my friend working on one at his shop. He was none too happy about doing a valve job on it.

Originally Posted by GOPAPA

When the wife and I was were raising our two gradeschool kids we went out and bought a small car for her to drive to work ,,and use like a soccer mom car,, It was a old Murcury Linx station wagon 1973 or early 80ies and I had to take a chisel and cut the oil filter out as it was on so tight.. No room next to the fire wall for my hands or any of the 3 different sizes of oil filter wrenches I had . and the 1.4 or what ever engine it was was way so guttless for the 7% mile long hill we had to come up from the town we lived by ..soon as we could afford it we sold it and bought a Mini Van Voyager .

Sounds like the Mercury version of the Pinto?

Originally Posted by FleetsidePaul

Fun Fun Fun. P.I.T.A. to get to anything.

What in the heck is that?

I don't mess with Scorpions under the hood! Bad enough when I pulled out the passenger side vent on the '63 and a live Paperwasp hive came out with it! There were only 5 or so of them in there but still!.

Originally Posted by rpmerf

A couple I can think of, none from personal experience.
There was a mustang in the early 70's that the engine had to be lifted to change the plugs.

One of those 00s ford engines, the plugs like to break off in the head. Apparently, you need to change the plugs while the engine is hot so the metal is expanded more.

Subaru has the 'ring of fire' where you need to reach between exhaust pipes to get at the oil filter.

More manufactures are putting the starter under the intake. It lasts longer due to less heat from the exhaust.

Cars like the 90's 300ZX and Dodge Stealth / Mitsubishi 3000GT with twin turbos were known for having very cramped engine bays.

Some fun ones I've seen:
To replace the alternator on my integra, I ended up removing 1 of the 5 engine mounts and the brake master cylinder.

On my wife's corolla, the tensioner bolt broke. Apparently a common problem. Fun part is the bolt is on the back side of the engine and about 1.5" from the frame rail. Ended up removing the mount and jacking up the engine to get at it.

Starter under the intake..... that's some of that good ol' middle finger engineering that Tim was talking about!

['63GENIII]

Originally Posted by Stocker

Following this thread and counting my lucky stars. My personal worst was the 80s Astro van I mentioned in a previous thread. Awfully hard to change plugs without skinned knuckles & back of your hands. Doesn't hold a candle to some of the horror stories here, and I think I may have only done the job a couple times.

I've only owned about 20 vehicles in 50+ years and several of them had small block Chevies under the hood.

Yes. I miss my SBCs as well! Also miss being skinny enough to get in the engine compartment of my '64 Impala SS with the engine in still .

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Thermostat on any of the early VW Vr6 variations, you basically have to pull a head.

Whats wrong with engineers? Putting a replaceable part in a place that nearly forces you to rebuild the engine! More MFE

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Chevy Monza with a V8.

You have to either jack the engine up, or drill holes in the fender inner structure.

K

Originally Posted by 3757chevy

That's the one I remember.

Was it a SBC? I had a friend in HS that had a Monza but can't remember if it was an 8 or not. Busted motor mounts and bad driveshaft. That car was not even fun to ride around in. I guess they were tough to work on too. Explains the condition of my friends car.

Originally Posted by Bonestock3ott

I remember working a part time job in the mid to late eighties at a repair shop/ used car lot and many GM MIDSIZE ( MONTE CARLO, CUTLASS, GRAND PRIX, REGAL) would come in with a skip/miss. These cars with the Buick 3.1 V6 with AC, many had one brand of spark plug in the drivers side and another brand usually Original AC'S on the passenger side because of the AC Compressor. If memory is correct, the passenger side was more difficult than the drivers side but not horrendous. Was probably more of a tech just trying to move more vehicles through their bay than to deal with the PITA.

The first time I found a miss with the E250, I changed 1 coil and 1 plug on the passenger side. I can almost understand why guys would only change some of the plugs .

Originally Posted by davischevy

My 71 Corvette big block with factory air.

Man, Looks like you'd have to lift the body off to get at anything more than the air filter and dipstick! Thats tight!

My BIL works for a company that "Bulletproofs" the newer Ford (the ones after the old 7.3) diesels and they do just that. Lift off the cab and front end, change the head studs and a few other things and drop the cab back on. Takes about a day and a half the way he tells it.

Crazy

[flashed]

Any of the 2nd Gen Firebirds or Trans Ams , the driverside plugs on Air cars were a Pain . I jacked mine up ,took the wheel off and went under the inner fender .