The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network







Register or Log In To remove these advertisements.

Go Back   The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network > 47 - Current classic GM Trucks > The 1960 - 1966 Chevrolet & GMC Pickups Message Board > projects and builds

Web 67-72chevytrucks.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2019, 07:18 PM   #76
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

'87 Blazer tank won't fit a shortbed, so that went back.

Sandblasted the upper and lower control arms and cross shafts.

Machined out the 73-87 balljoint location and welded in a mounting ring for the 88-98 balljoint, offset to the outside 1/2" each side.

Sectioned the forward arm of the lower arms to make more room for the Fox-body steering rack.

Bought a gallon of Epoxy Primer.
__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2019, 11:42 PM   #77
Captainfab
60-66 Nut

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 22,149
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Do you have any pics of your lower control arms. That is what I had thought of doing but have not done it yet.
__________________
Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE
Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE
Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE
Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE
Captainfab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 03:16 AM   #78
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Front arms, one still to be welded.

The rings are 3", machined for proper interference fit (though it will probably shrink more from welding).

I used a 3" hole saw to cut out the mount, with the saw just skimming the inside of the original balljoint bore. The rings are roughly 3/8" thick, and the new ball joint is roughly 1/8" larger in radius, which move the joint roughly 1/2" outboard.



The forward leg of the arm is just sliced, bent, and re-welded. It's as much as I dare cut.

__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 02:21 PM   #79
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 08:40 PM   #80
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Pie cut the upper arms, reducing the ball joint mounting angle by 10. Should prevent locking up the balljoint should I decide to go air ride.

__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2019, 11:29 PM   #81
Captainfab
60-66 Nut

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 22,149
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Thanks for the pics. Looks like it should work.
__________________
Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE
Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE
Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE
Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE
Captainfab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2019, 06:47 AM   #82
brimc
Registered User
 
brimc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New Lowell, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 248
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Awesome build cant wait to see more
__________________
BRIAN

1986 Chevrolet K20 Silverado 12 Valve CUMMINS P Pumped Intercooled/Getrag360/Divorced NP205/10B/14BFF Detroit Locker - DD Canadian Winter Beater.

My Chevrolet CUMMINS Build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=585509
brimc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2019, 09:16 PM   #83
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Spent a week on Vancouver Island, which was good - I needed to figure out the rack placement.

I had to remove the driver's side eye mount, but I will replace that with a pipe clamp sort of arrangement.

__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 09:38 PM   #84
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Upper arms, before and after:



Two coats of epoxy primer, then 2K Chassis Black:

__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 08:07 PM   #85
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

I forgot to paint the lower arm u-bolts, but I still had some epoxy mixed up, and there was JUST enough left in the chassis black can to finish those today.

Also disassembled the front clip of the truck. Only 1 bolt broke

Also got the ultrasonic pulse done on my elbows today, as well as the IMS and the electro shock stuff. My arms have been in pain since I pulled the blown 305 out of the Firefly last year. Physio says I have both Tennis Elbow as well as Golfer's Elbow. I don't do either, but I sure can't swing a hammer anymore. It all started when I built a 50' Allen Block walkway and stairs up to my house 12 years ago.
__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 12:37 AM   #86
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Poly bushings and lower ball joints installed. Still need to bolt in the new upper ball joints. These are 88-98 ball joints in 73-87 arms, with lower ball joints moved outboard 1/2"

One bushing sleeve cocked and buckled, and after I finished swearing at it, I was able to remove the sleeve, unbuckle it, and re-shape it again and put it back together.



__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate

Last edited by SkinnyG; 08-16-2019 at 12:53 AM.
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #87
aggie91
I'm just glad to be here!
 
aggie91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Longview, TX
Posts: 4,285
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

work is looking good. Did I miss something? What are you using 88-98 lower ball joints?
__________________
Karl



1965 Chevy Stepside(Grandpa's Old Blue) and (July 2015 Shop Build!)
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=372424

The LST Challenge:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post7812257

Korbin's 1st Square: "Sunburn"
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=418618

1985 GMC Sierra: "White Trash", Korbin's 2nd now...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632305

Henry - 1984 Chevrolet, Owen's 1st Square
aggie91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2019, 11:41 AM   #88
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie91 View Post
Why are you using 88-98 lower ball joints?
Good question. It's kind of a hodge-podge snowball of staying under budget and working with what I have and what I want.

1. I will be running a turbocharged LS, planning on 600-650hp to the wheels.

2. I'm not happy with the durability of the 12-bolt in my '77.

3. An 8.8 is narrower than I want, and I want to run the same size wheels front and back.

4. I've seen people on here using Jeep wheels in 18" and 20", but they need to use spacers. I like the look and the idea of those wheels, but I do not want to run spacers. I got a sweet deal on some 18" steelies.

5. I got a sweet deal on a 9" axle which I could narrow, but with the fwd-offset of the Jeep wheels, I don't need to - the wheels would be placed in approximately the same location as stock, which provides good clearance for turning while riding low (I have not decided if I want to air bag it or not).

6. The width of the 9" requires widening the front track quite a bit, which means relocating the ball joint location, or fabricating new upper and lower arms.

7. I got a sweet deal on a set of 2" 88-98 spindles, and since I need to relocate the ball joints anyway, I might as well make them work with the spindles. They are a bigger ball joint as well, and the 73-87 ball joints are not awesome. Plus, the 88-98 spindle seems to have more Steering Axis Inclination (SAI), which means I don't need to alter the upper control arm at all (saves work), and my calculations indicate I only needed to move the lower ball joint 1/2", which is (theoretically) a lot less than if I used 73-87 spindles.

NOTE: a larger SAI might have been employed by GM to reduce the scrub radius (the distance from the steering axis to the wheel centerline, at ground level). Ideally you want to be within 10% of the wheel width for scrub (in my case, 0.75" would be ideal). The 73-87 spindles have a fairly LARGE scrub radius, and my guess is GM tried to reduce it by increasing the SAI. A smarter way is to run more backspacing (FWD-style offset). The downside to a high SAI is you lose significant camber on turns (watch any MacStrut car). You then need a fairly high amount of caster to counteract that dynamic camber loss on turns. Lots of caster is almost always good, but can un-weight the inside rear wheel on a corner, resulting in wheelspin.

8. (I didn't plan this one) The 88-98 spindles mount the tierod below the steering arm (73-87 is above), which improves steering rack placement. Many kits that use the 73-87 spindles run a heim joint for a tie rod, mounted under the steering arm (easier to reduce/remove bumpsteer for sure). I don't want to run a heim joint, I want a proper tierod.

I think that's most of my train of thought.

Make sense?

And honestly, I like "the build" and "creative solutions using OEM parts" and my labour is free.
__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate

Last edited by SkinnyG; Yesterday at 09:48 AM. Reason: Clarity, and adding a note.
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:39 PM   #89
SkinnyG
Registered User
 
SkinnyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beautiful BC, Canada, eh?!
Posts: 821
Re: SkinnyG's '61 Apache

Spent a number of hours finalizing the Fox-Body steering rack to minimize bumpsteer. I had to take a small chunk out of the crossmember where the passenger side lug goes, but nothing I can't re-shape and repair.

I set everything up at ride height, and checked for any toe change at a full 3" bump and 3" droop, using this fancy device to see the change.



I got it down to a fart of toe in on both bump and droop, so I took the inner tie rods off and shaved 1/16" off the end of the rack threads, which now gives me a tick of toe out on bump and droop (dang!), which is more preferable than in (oh, well - yay! then). I guess I can shim it more precisely if it is even a perceptible problem.

Simple apparatus for adjusting rack height shown below. Square tube supporting Redi-Rod which is threaded into muffler clamp saddles (had to use zap-straps (zip-ties) to hold the rack, since I didn't have any 2.5" clamps). By threading the Redi-Rod up or down with a nut, I could position the rack, then test for bump steer.



Honestly, fretting over wee bits of bumpsteer is a waste, in my opinion. If anything in the setup changes, nothing will be optimal and you have go in again.

I was, however, pleased to discover that full lock of the steering doesn't run the wheels on the control arms anywhere. Yay!
__________________
Nostrildamus - 1961 Apache, now under the knife
The Crusty Chevy - 1977 Silverado, shortboxed & dropped, potato-potato.
The Fiendish Firefly - The ultimate engine swap: 5.7lbs in a 1lb bag
The Lethal Locost - Street legal rollerskate
SkinnyG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1997-2013 67-72chevytrucks.com