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Old 01-04-2015, 03:56 PM   #26
marvgarr68
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

What is the vacuum reading? This will tell you everything from late cam timing to bad ignition timing, open valves, burned valves, and so on. It needs to have a vacuum gauge hooked up.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:22 PM   #27
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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What is the vacuum reading? This will tell you everything from late cam timing to bad ignition timing, open valves, burned valves, and so on. It needs to have a vacuum gauge hooked up.
I agree 100% give us exact compression numbers and vacuum reading also have them check the timing at idle and advanced and tell us exactly what it is . Do a leak down test after the compression test .Do all of this and report back .You have an awesome group of people trying to help but it wont do any good unless we have solid FACTS .You can theorize all day long .Not being a jerk but this is the ONLY way it can get fixed.Get all of this done recorded and post it until you do you are just wasting your time.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:36 PM   #28
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

I understand that the question on this particular thread is about a Summit warranty so maybe we are all wasting our time but don't get frustrated with us asking all of these questions.

I also know that you have been dealing with this truck for quite a while now and are frustrated.

You just have to remember that an internal combustion engine in it's self is a simple beast. There is some simple explanation for what is happening and when it is found out you (and your mechanics) will be slapping your foreheads and wondering why such a simple thing frustrated you for so long.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:05 PM   #29
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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since everything else checks out, i would look at the fuel pump and fuel filter. Check the pressure while you drive it under a heavy load.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:16 PM   #30
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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I installed a GM crate 350/290 hp engine in my truck about a month and a half ago and have had nothing but problems, starting with receiving an engine with broken valve stems. They sent me a new one but o was without my truck for nearly a month and it's cost me an extra thousand bucks so far. The engine has zero power even after a new carb, distributor, plugs, wires, ignition, everything is new but the engine is gutless and gets almost 4 mpg, closer to 3 most the time. It runs incredibly smooth and sounds great but it's a dog! I've taken it to three shops and no one can figure it out, the last guy, who still has it has been working on it three days straight with no luck. He just installed the exact same engine with the same components I have in a truck identical to mine and that truck is strong as hell. The carb and dist are the ones Summit recommends. The only thing we can figure is there's something wrong in the engine itself, even checked the timing gears.
I got to reading the warrantee and it says it has to be installed by a licenced shop in order to be covered by the warrantee, is this something Gm and summit are going to stick by? Or is there a possibility they will do something? I didn't want to bring up the warrantee to them until I was a little more educated on the warrantee.
Thanks for any suggestions!
1. Did you install a new dampener/balancer?
2. Did your old engine have the timing indicator built into the middle of the timing cover?
3. If you are running the same dampener/balancer and timing indicator as before when the old engine ran better, then maybe the balancer ring has slipped. Ask the shop the truck it is at if they have a "piston stop" and confirm the mark on the dampener/balancer is correct. If they don't have one, get your own.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-66792 Repair as necessary (dampener/balancer and pointer to match).
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:43 PM   #31
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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I installed a GM crate 350/290 hp engine in my truck about a month and a half ago and have had nothing but problems, starting with receiving an engine with broken valve stems. They sent me a new one but o was without my truck for nearly a month and it's cost me an extra thousand bucks so far. The engine has zero power even after a new carb, distributor, plugs, wires, ignition, everything is new but the engine is gutless and gets almost 4 mpg, closer to 3 most the time. It runs incredibly smooth and sounds great but it's a dog! I've taken it to three shops and no one can figure it out, the last guy, who still has it has been working on it three days straight with no luck. He just installed the exact same engine with the same components I have in a truck identical to mine and that truck is strong as hell. The carb and dist are the ones Summit recommends. The only thing we can figure is there's something wrong in the engine itself, even checked the timing gears.
I got to reading the warrantee and it says it has to be installed by a licenced shop in order to be covered by the warrantee, is this something Gm and summit are going to stick by? Or is there a possibility they will do something? I didn't want to bring up the warrantee to them until I was a little more educated on the warrantee.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Make sure the dot on the distributor gear lines up with the electrode on the distributor rotor, if not the distributor will be out of phase.

I also found a picture of the timing cover referenced in a previous post, was un-able to add it in that post on an edit so here it is.

Another thing to remember is when you install the distributor, the wires have to be in the exact place on the cap as in the figure below. If you get the distributor in a tooth or so off you cannot move the wires to compensate for that as it will put the distributor out of phase and have everyone scratching their heads.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:43 PM   #32
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

You say the engine runs smoothly, it revs fine, it just doesn't move the truck well.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest looking at the torque convertor. It's just possible that the engine is making plenty of power but the power isn't making it to the ground.
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:52 PM   #33
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

When you installed the motor did you have the torque converter installed all the way into the pump? It is easy for them to slip when you are wrestling around or on engine removal and for it to be overlooked.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:01 PM   #34
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

I haven't read through all of the replys, but a few things......how old is the gas? You mentioned it sat for a little while. If if has an EGR sensor that would be suspect. Also, check the ball in the PCV valve and make sure it moves. If it's carbureted and the engine has backfired even one time, change the power valve in the carb. Probably also changed the fuel filter but if not do that too.
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:06 PM   #35
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

That is exactly why i prefer to spend a few dollars more and get a gm crate engine from my local dealership in case i have any warrenty problems i've posted this advise hundredrs of times but everybody goes cheap cheap

I DONT THINK YOU SHOULD B BOTHING SUMMIT WHEN YOU GOT A GM WARRENTY AS PART OF YOUR DEAL,, I DONT BELIEVE SUMMIT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WARRENTYING THIS ENGINE
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:24 PM   #36
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

this may have nothing to do with your problem, but i was in a shop recently and an older truck came in with the same problem. no engine change just started running really bad, no power on the road, but reved and sounded fine in park. when he reved it i heard a weird noise on the right side. i crawled under it and noticed the exhaust was sliding back at the muffler every time he reved it. short story long, we removed the muffler and tailpipe, made a quick power run and everything was fine.something must have come apart in the muffler and partially blocked the exhaust.
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Old 01-04-2015, 07:35 PM   #37
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Would be funny if there was a rag or something in the pipe blocking the exhaust.

Kind of like a bad Catalytic Convertor or something like that.

Does this truck have the flapper gizmo on one of the exhaust manifolds? If so, is it stuck closed?
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:09 PM   #38
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Loosen the exhaust pipes where they bolt onto the exhaust manifolds. It sounds like a classic case of excessive back pressure. Any mechanic with a vacuum gauge can figure this out in 5 minutes. Bad muffler? I had one just like this once, seems like a dirt dobber made a nest in the exhaust pipe. Think of what was changed when engine was changed. When you find it, you will think how simple and stupid it all was. Someone leave a rag in the exhaust when it was disconnected? Anyone verify that TDC on the engine matched TDC on the balancer? Is the trans starting in 1st gear? there is just one problem with this truck from the start, but guessing at everything isnt going to get us very far. I dont see a list of what your truck has for equiptment? rear axle ratio?dual exhaust? headers? Carb I see, HEI?
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:04 PM   #39
mechanicalman
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Would be funny if there was a rag or something in the pipe blocking the exhaust.

Kind of like a bad Catalytic Convertor or something like that.

Does this truck have the flapper gizmo on one of the exhaust manifolds? If so, is it stuck closed?
Worked next to a guy at a dealership who worked on a Chevy Blazer for at least a week, diesel, he replaced pretty much everything from fuel filter, injectors, injector pump, etc. Was too proud to ask me for help but he finally gave up and asked, took about 5 minutes to find a bird's nest in the fresh air intake tube. Then he got mad at me saying I knew it all along, but really, I did not know till I looked at it.

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:21 PM   #40
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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When you installed the motor did you have the torque converter installed all the way into the pump? It is easy for them to slip when you are wrestling around or on engine removal and for it to be overlooked.
I would say it a bad lockup torque converter as well. If you guys have gone through everything, I'm sure you guys have checked to see if the timings is 180 out?. If you guys think it's internal, have you changed the oil and inspected the oil for metallics?
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:30 PM   #41
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees

Yep, done something similar MANY times. It's worse when your wife comes out and says "could it be this?", and it is!!!.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:23 PM   #42
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Just got off the phone with GM, they're replacing the engine for me, taking it to a GM dealer tomorrow and should have it back in a few days. The dealer even had the engine in stock.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:32 PM   #43
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Just got off the phone with GM, they're replacing the engine for me, taking it to a GM dealer tomorrow and should have it back in a few days. The dealer even had the engine in stock.
Great news!! Are they going to install the new engine?
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:44 PM   #44
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Would be funny if there was a rag or something in the pipe blocking the exhaust.

Kind of like a bad Catalytic Convertor or something like that.

Does this truck have the flapper gizmo on one of the exhaust manifolds? If so, is it stuck closed?
That would be embarrassing! They're replacing the engine for me this week, I'll burry my head if they find something like that!
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:51 PM   #45
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, trust me all of this has been checked out, there's definately something wrong somewhere in this engine. The dealer said I probably got a "Friday engine", I guess strange issues like this aren't as uncommon as I thought.
I'm just glad I don't have to pull the engine again, I'm happy to let GM do it! Last time I was at the dealer they had a nice 502 sitting in their showroom, maybe I can talk them into throwing that in! After all I've bought three cars from this dealer!
Thanks again everyone! I didn't mean to stir up the soup here, I was just trying to prepare myself as to what kind of warranty service to expect.
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Old 01-05-2015, 12:53 PM   #46
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Great news!! Are they going to install the new engine?
Yes, taking it down tomorrow, they have the engine in stock. Should have it back by the end of the week!
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:04 PM   #47
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Just to throw one more thing out there. No one mentioned "break in". One MUST!!!!!! use break-in oil and follow proper procedure. Bet your cam is completely gone.

I have same engine, it has a weak cam and LOW flowing heads. OK torque but NO HP. I planned a cam swap anyway so no problems with mine. Installed 6 of these to date with NO issues.

Good luck with the new one!

tt
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:13 PM   #48
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Just to throw one more thing out there. No one mentioned "break in". One MUST!!!!!! use break-in oil and follow proper procedure. Bet your cam is completely gone.

I have same engine, it has a weak cam and LOW flowing heads. OK torque but NO HP. I planned a cam swap anyway so no problems with mine. Installed 6 of these to date with NO issues.

Good luck with the new one!

tt
I broke in the cam and used Lucas break in additive. The cam is fine. I couldn't even find any particals in the oil after I changed it, none that would amount to a flat cam. The oil is so clean still that it's hard to see it on the dipstick. I was carefull to do exactly as recommended. I drove a nearly identical truck that recently had the same engine as mine installed, same carb, dist, exhaust and man it was strong! Compared to my engine anyway!
Yea, I hope the third engine is a charm! The first one came with a broken valve. Was almost getting ready to throw my old engine back in!
Thanks!
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:16 PM   #49
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaztruett View Post
Just to throw one more thing out there. No one mentioned "break in". One MUST!!!!!! use break-in oil and follow proper procedure. Bet your cam is completely gone.

I have same engine, it has a weak cam and LOW flowing heads. OK torque but NO HP. I planned a cam swap anyway so no problems with mine. Installed 6 of these to date with NO issues.

Good luck with the new one!

tt
Did your cam flatten out? Any idea why? I had a flat cam in my 71 gmc about 20 years ago, when I saw it I couldn't believe the thing was still running at all! The lifters were even worn around the cam.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:36 PM   #50
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Re: Anyone ever had luck getting summit to honor a warrantee for a bad crate engine?

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Just got off the phone with GM, they're replacing the engine for me, taking it to a GM dealer tomorrow and should have it back in a few days. The dealer even had the engine in stock.
Awesome news
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