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Old 11-04-2021, 08:31 PM   #1
iceman4
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4 link decision

Hi, Trying to decide which 4 link to go with 57 truck 12 bolt rear. Most of the forum info is 10 years old so may not be relevant. My time is limited right now, so Looking for a bolt to frame to save time. Need a 3" to 4" drop with some adjustability "coilovers" to get the stance I want. Been looking at Heidts, TCI,and Full Tilts
Anyone have experience good or bad with any of these or others. Prefer American Made.
Thanks
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:35 PM   #2
mr48chev
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Re: 4 link decision

I just thumbed though the latest issue of Classic Truck Performance and only found one offering from Western Chassis in the mix. https://westernchassis.com/1955-59-C...uspension-Kit/

Art Morrison pieces are about as good as it gets and they have several interesting options to scope out https://artmorrison.com/products/com.../rearsusp-kits
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:43 PM   #3
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Re: 4 link decision

what is the end result you are looking for in your project? daily driver? canyon carver? short duration cruiser on weekends? long haul road tripper? when looking at rear suspension set ups keep in mind what else you will also have running back there. exhaust dumps behind rear axle will need space above the axle for tubing and also heat shields etc, exhaust dumps ahead of axle will need space as well and will also dump hot gasses which are mildly corrosive, the location and configuration of the fuel tank, fuel pump, inline filters etc and how those coilover shocks or air bags will fit around that and mount up at an angle that works to support the truck, if lowering you will need at least 3 inches above the axle so you may need a c-notch and that can affect the height of the bed floor, c notch should also have some sort of snubbers to stop axle from contacting the frame, the depth of rear wheels/tires and how the 4 link will accommodate that for width, will you be running a sway bar and if so will it be ahead or behind the axle and how will that fit around the other items fighting for space, will you run an adjustable 4 link so you can dial in the suspension for traction and the pinion angle or will it just be for looks and elimination of the leaf springs, will you run equal length 4 link arms or different length arms as this affects geometry and can cause binding as does the 3 bar set ups, will you run parallel bars and a panhard bar, maybe a watts link, parallel lower bars and angled upper bars with no panhard bar, will you be boxing the frame, are you looking at stiffening the frame with tubing kits later in the build? will you run heim joints or urethane bushings? lots of stuff to think about so a quick decision may cost you adjustablity, driveability etc later on.
these guys have a components and gussets/brackets etc catalogue if you wanna build your own. Canadian so USD goes further
https://welderseries.com/?gclid=EAIa...SAAEgIIM_D_BwE

http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/...ed-4-link.html
http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/tuning-4-link.html
http://www.jascoautomotive.com/4linkrearsuspension.htmh

ttps://www.motortrend.com/how-to/rear-suspension-guide/

https://www.ridetech.com/tech/4-link-tech/
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Old 11-05-2021, 10:37 AM   #4
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Re: 4 link decision

My truck has a TCI four link. I didn't put it in, but it gives a nice ride. The only think I really don't like about it, is the diagonal "track bar." I think a system with a bar that runs parallel to the rear end would be a little better and give more room for exhaust.
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Old 11-05-2021, 11:46 AM   #5
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Re: 4 link decision

Ricky makes a point I was mentioning, how to keep the rear axle position side to side. A pan hard bar takes real estate but can be placed behind the axle. It should be as long as possible and sitting level with the vehicle at ride height because otherwise the axle location changes as the bar end goes through an arc as it moves up and down with the axle.
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Old 11-05-2021, 12:32 PM   #6
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Re: 4 link decision

whatever kit you go with, look at the diameter of the tubing and the wall thickness of the tubes. also consider the length of the bars/tubes. short bars will make the fore to aft location of the axle change slightly as you go over bumps so it becomes important to have the truck set up at ride height so the axle location can be dialed in. also, before you take stuff apart, plumb bob the old axle location and mark the floor and the frame so your new suspension can be set to keep the axle where it is supposed to be. it;s a good idea to do a frame squareness check prior to any mods as well, just so any defects can be addressed prior to setting something new up. it could be compared to building a house on a foundation that is not square. nothing is square from the floor up so problems get worse as you carry on.
some kits made for traction and planting the tires as per drag racing may not drive well on the road going through corners etc.
there is something to be said for keeping the leaf springs as well. easy to replace, even if you are doing a complete job including new more modern hangers etc. totally depends on budget and your wants for a final outcome.
things to consider
tube diameter, wall thickness and length
size of the bar ends and urethane bushings or heim joints-are they readily available
panhard or crossbar length and location.
beefiness of the bracket material used and how it is braced/bolted up
real estate taken up by the system and what else will be affected
ride expected
use expected-buying a system that is non adjustable and expecting it to plant the tires at the strip may be expecting too much, and vice versa.
brackets with holes to place the bars in different locations to change their angles will be more for traction. parallel bars will be more for street. check the summit site for ideas and pics of the different styles. not endorsing anybody here, it's just the first site that came up on my google search. a little research now will make a difference later. never good to rush in on the underpinnings since they are the base of the build. like the foundation of the house. chassis dimensional checks should be included in there someplace.
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...sion-link-kits

4 link calculator for you to see all the dynamics of a set up
https://www.performancetrends.com/4link.htm

frame checking procedure can be found in the assembly manual along with dimensions drawings of the frame. good to download this as it comes in handy for other stuff too
https://www.trifive.com/d1/55-59Assy.pdf
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Old 11-05-2021, 01:26 PM   #7
mr48chev
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Re: 4 link decision

I'm just going to say use a kit designed for the truck rather than attempting to build you own from pieces unless you have someone who is seriously knowledgeable helping you with it. Also what works for a circle track car, drag car or crawler might not work that well for a street driven truck outside of the truck bar style of Nascar rear suspension that is a copy of 60/72 Chevy truck rear suspension. That seems to work pretty well with a bagged suspension.
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:54 PM   #8
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Re: 4 link decision

when i was building 58truk, 4 link was for drag racing, not for driving on the road. a lot of guy install them, truk has 36,000 miles on refurbished stock springs (minus the overload leaves) and flipped under the axle
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:22 PM   #9
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Re: 4 link decision

I was just going to mention the old 67-72 style trailing arm rear suspension.
I guess you need to figure out what you want to do with the truck and how you want it to ride. also what you have for a budget to buy suspension parts with. some diffs with the cast iron centre can be a little more difficult to install a triangulated 4 link due to the centre section being hard or impossible to weld to compared to a stamped steel centre section. that also limits your choices. really the reason to eliminate the leaf springs is to eliminate the axle/spring wrap or wheel hop that occurs when doing burnouts or racing. that can be overcome as well with the addition of a simple bar that connects the axle to the front spring hanger area or an old fashioned traction bar that eliminates axle torquing up under acceleration. 4X4 guys use these all the time due to the big lift kits. I know some builds here have used leafs and mounts from a donor, like an S10 or a ranger because they are also light trucks, and simply welded the spring mounts on the axle tubes where they need to be after getting the spring mounts attached to the frame-bolt on style. those axle mounts/pads can be bought online at a place like summit, or they can be had at a local trailer supply place, you just need to know the axle tube diameter you are working with.
https://partsavatar.ca/1994-1997-for...gaAtmFEALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.ca/Dorman-722100-...95930355&psc=1

https://partsavatar.ca/1998-2002-for...IaApaREALw_wcB
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Old 11-05-2021, 06:45 PM   #10
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Re: 4 link decision

I have a 4-link in my 57 with a Nova clip in front. the diagonal bar was/is a PITA for fitting the drive shaft and messes with a lot of other things too. I got the bars for free, made my own frame and diff brackets from catalog and dimensions of my Father in law's drag car (who donated the bars as he upsized). if doing it again, i would use this triangulated kit:

https://welderseries.com/store/Trian...-Kit-p49926314

in the long run it would have been cheaper and faster. a buddy has used other products from this supplier with great success.

Good luck with it
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Old 11-05-2021, 09:21 PM   #11
iceman4
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Re: 4 link decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickysnickers View Post
My truck has a TCI four link. I didn't put it in, but it gives a nice ride. The only think I really don't like about it, is the diagonal "track bar." I think a system with a bar that runs parallel to the rear end would be a little better and give more room for exhaust.
Will look into TCI Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr48chev View Post
I just thumbed though the latest issue of Classic Truck Performance and only found one offering from Western Chassis in the mix. https://westernchassis.com/1955-59-C...uspension-Kit/

They sell the Heidts four link

Art Morrison pieces are about as good as it gets and they have several interesting options to scope out https://artmorrison.com/products/com.../rearsusp-kits
Well made, Need a kit built for 2nd series to speed to process.

[QUOTE=mr48chev;8992261]I'm just going to say use a kit designed for the truck rather than attempting to build you own from pieces unless you have someone who is seriously knowledgeable helping you with it.

Agreed. Truck is a fair weather driver, 2 to 3k miles per year. I installed the Flatout C4 front suspension last winter. Drove it 2k miles this year, just need to lower the rear 3 to 4" to get the stance I want.
Now has stock leaf springs 6" space frpm top of axel to bottom of frame . Will be changing the 10 bolt camaro rear for a 12 bolt. Considered going with lowering springs but between rebuilding the spring hangers and welding perches on the rear I'm thinking the four link install wouldn't be that much more work. Thanks everyone for your input/ advice .
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Old 11-05-2021, 09:51 PM   #12
iceman4
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Re: 4 link decision

[QUOTE=dsraven;8992318]I was just going to mention the old 67-72 style trailing arm rear suspension.
I guess you need to figure out what you want to do with the truck and how you want it to ride. also what you have for a budget to buy suspension parts with. some diffs with the cast iron centre can be a little more difficult to install a triangulated 4 link due to the centre section being hard or impossible to weld to compared to a stamped steel centre section. that also limits your choices. really the reason to eliminate the leaf springs is to eliminate the axle/spring wrap or wheel hop that occurs when doing burnouts or racing.

A lot to consider. Thats why I was looking at kits made for these trucks. Designing my own four link is way beyond my fab skills and time availabilty. On second thought... rebuilding spring hangers welding on perches and going with Posie springs is my plan B.
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:54 PM   #13
jwhotrod
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Re: 4 link decision

i have put triangulated 4 bar setups in all of my streetrods, they are much better than 4 links for street use. also do not need a panard bar it keeps everything straight and has better articulation than a 4 link. you can get the setups from ridetech, Paul Hortons weld series, and a lot of other places.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:37 PM   #14
dsraven
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Re: 4 link decision

triangulated 4 link on cast centre section axle. welded onto the tubes on each side. scroll down for the pic but also some info in there about others with the same kind of concerns as yours. remember to think about the different length of rods from bottom to top and how that will change the pinion angle as the axle moves up and down
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=261315

when cutting off old brackets or welding anything on the axle tubes ensure you take your time. the heat can distort/bend the axle tubes.
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Old 11-06-2021, 03:53 PM   #15
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Re: 4 link decision

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...inion.1009726/

if possible keep your leafs in place to locate the axle when assembling your new 4 link. you could even take most of the leafs out so it sits lower while doing this. just a thought. or you could weld a temp bracket between the frame and the axle where it would be out of the way, that way your ride height chosen couldn't move and neither could the axle centreline. I have done the latter before. if you lower it too much you will need a C notch. 3" above axle at ride height would be the minimum and even then you may need dental work after some speed bumps. consider installing one of those bee's nest suspension snubbers found on newer vehicles to help with that. my avalanche had those and the snubber was only about 1 1/2" from touching whe at ride height, it makes bottoming out easier on the teeth and spine. these bolt on up through their centre
https://blazerforum.com/forum/steeri...p-stops-96077/
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Old 11-06-2021, 07:07 PM   #16
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Re: 4 link decision

Lotsa folks pay big money for a truck arm suspension. Truck arm suspension fits reasonably well into other year Chevy truck frames like this project and this one. Truck arm suspension can be robbed from 62-72 trucks found in wrecking yards. Truck arm suspension kits are available from aftermarket vendors such as Chris Alston's Chassis Works, Hotrods To Hell, Speedway Motors,and CPP. Truck arm suspension has been installed and / or modified by a number of folks here on the forum and they seem generally willing to help with questions.

Last edited by 1project2many; 11-06-2021 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 11-09-2021, 02:15 AM   #17
daveshilling
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Re: 4 link decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman4 View Post
I installed the Flatout C4 front suspension last winter. Drove it 2k miles this year, just need to lower the rear 3 to 4" to get the stance I want.
.
The Flatout Rear suspension is a drill and bolt-in kit...Of course you need a new rear end, but why not go full vette?
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:21 PM   #18
iceman4
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Re: 4 link decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveshilling View Post
The Flatout Rear suspension is a drill and bolt-in kit...Of course you need a new rear end, but why not go full vette?
I considered going with a c4 rear as hauling heavy loads with the truck probably won't happen. Would go that direction if I could find a Dana 44 or even a 36 posi 373. Most of the ones I've seen Have a high in the 2s or 308 gear ratio. Wanted to avoid the cost of changing gears.
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Old 11-13-2021, 04:08 PM   #19
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Re: 4 link decision

I assume your 12-bolt is not from an A-Body - if it was the mounts are already cast in to the housing for the triag 4-link. Here is my '56 truck frame - I used a 70-72 Olds 10-bolt 8.5" rearend (no c-clips) and bought the coilover mounts from Ride-tech (they bolt to the factory lca bracket. Removed the coils spring mounting pads to clean things up a little. Used johnny joints on all links. Of course, you'll have to make frame mounts (I don't know if anyone makes them for the TriFive trucks). I used S-10 disc brakes. I did c-notch the frame.

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Old 11-13-2021, 10:32 PM   #20
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Re: 4 link decision

I installed a TCI kit on my 72 Nova and I love the handling and adjustability. Their kit feels and look beefy and solid. Having said that, I have not seen any other kit in person, just online pictures.
I have also installed a TCI kit in my 53 GMC 3/4 ton. They are the only ones who advertise their kit for 3/4 ton trucks. There are some pictures in my post in build section subforum since I am still in the middle of the project. I have to say that I do have an issue with the panhard (diagonal) bar in my 53. It interfere with my 14 bolt axle swap. I guess I can't blame TCI for that since I assume they design their kit based on original axles. I didn't have any issue with my Nova. Routing exhaust can be a challenge but what is not a challenge in an old car/truck when you start swapping different parts?
Good luck
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:11 PM   #21
dsraven
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Re: 4 link decision

if you can make the panhard bar almost as wide as the inside of the frame, keep the frame mount low so the bar is level at ride height, and hide it directly behind the axle, then the geometry is good for the bar so the axle movement side to side is minimal with suspension travel and also it isn't too much in the way for routing other stuff like exhaust. bear in mind that the level bar will mean the axle will always move side to side in one direction, towards the frame mount end of the bar, because the arc that the axle end of the bar moves through will be at it's furthest away point from the frame mount end. short panhard bars will mean the axle moves side to side more as suspension travels simply because the shorter bar moves through a shorter arc. for air ride trucks that want to be in the weeds but raise to drive around this will mean the tires may need more clearance between the fender. when mocking up it is always good to run the suspension through a complete cycle from lowest to highest with the correct tire and wheel in place as well as the body, just to make sure it's all good.
thats just my 2 cents, others do things differently.
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:31 PM   #22
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Re: 4 link decision

here is a link on setting up a panhard bar for basic suspension. it has a video as well.
https://m.roadkillcustoms.com/how-to...a-panhard-bar/
bear in mind that some cars, like circle trackers, will have the bar set a certain way to load the tire most likely to spin as the car sways under cornering. if it is known that the car will always sway one way then the bar is set to load the correct tire.
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:38 PM   #23
dsraven
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Re: 4 link decision

here is a quick video for the 4 link guys about pinion angle changes and instant center locations. it has links to other interesting suspension design stuff too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3n3NOgDr7E
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:44 PM   #24
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Re: 4 link decision

and setting up transmission and pinion angle for good driveline geometry and less shudder/vibration issues
https://www.facebook.com/CurrieEnter...4573356612863/
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Old 11-13-2021, 11:46 PM   #25
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Re: 4 link decision

this fella has a few videos in a series on how adjustable race 4 link suspensions work and how to set things up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw4p8L5Dvls
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