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Old 09-27-2019, 12:38 PM   #1
Marty68
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MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

I have a question. plan is eventually install MII
(probably hire local race fab)
has anyone installed a Mustang 2 crossmember with the front sheet metal and engine trans still in place. my 283 is attached to top of frame rail. it appears to be out of the way. the original bellhousing crossmember is still in tact. I would think it COULD be done.
I am asking because I want to avoid the "while I am here" syndrome that stalls or kills projects. I want to keep my truck drivable as much as possible.
I will ask fab shop Monday to asses its possibilities. I am having them install t5 and open drive line. dropping it off Monday
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:58 PM   #2
joedoh
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

you could, but you shouldnt. the extra time added crawling around and then finding out the clip or the motor HAS to be removed will be much less than just pulling the front clip and motor before doing the work. especially if you are already pulling the trans, how happy would that shop be to do the T5 bellhousing/flywheel/throwout bearing work on a motor on a pallet?

it comes down to you dont know what you dont know. If you dont want "while you are in there" scope creep then write down what you are doing and stick to it. the front clip can be taken off in less than an hour. the motor pulled in less than 2 (assuming 2 engine mounts, 1 trans mount, two exhaust manifolds, fuel line, throttle cable, rad hoses (that you took off removing the front clip), wiring, and maybe an oil pressure line.


just my cruddy opinion worth what it costs. we find out destiny on the roads we take to avoid it.

if your front end has never been off, soak all the bolts and nuts with penetrant multiple times over a day or two before you start. a pro tip is: if a bolt/nut is deliriously tight from rust and you dont think it will ever come loose, TIGHTEN IT. the bolt will snap and you will be on to the next. 5/16 bolts arent expensive enough and 1950s bolts arent valuable enough yet to make a career out of heating/spraying penetrant.
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:16 PM   #3
mr48chev
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

I understand the dilemma but in the long run as Joedoe said it will be a real headache.

Almost impossible if the kit (and most do) has boxing plates.

I think a few guys have done it with bolt ons but even then you have the challenges of being able to reach the top of the frame rails to drill holes and the hassles of measuring right.

Personally If I was having it done by a shop I'd pull the bumper and nose and pull the engine. and clean and pressure wash the frame so I wasn't paying shop time for them to clean the frame. Then haul it to the shop and have them do the work while I detailed the engine and maybe painted the inner fenders. That also accounts for the least amount of shop hours you have to pay for.

The inner fenders have to be trimmed to clear the spring pockets and A arms on most all suspension swaps except for Jag XJ and maybe a few custom front ends. Joedoe can tell you that trimming them right while not cutting away too much metal is a challenge in it's self.

One issue with doing it with the engine in and the nose on is the extra shop hours for doing the actual install. That takes it from a one day job to about a three day job just in the time to get the work done and that is a lot of shop hour $$$$
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:31 PM   #4
Marty68
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr48chev View Post
I understand the dilemma but in the long run as Joedoe said it will be a real headache.



The inner fenders have to be trimmed to clear the spring pockets and A arms on most all suspension swaps except for Jag XJ and maybe a few custom front ends. Joedoe can tell you that trimming them right while not cutting away too much metal is a challenge in it's self.

One issue with doing it with the engine in and the nose on is the extra shop hours for doing the actual install. That takes it from a one day job to about a three day job just in the time to get the work done and that is a lot of shop hour $$$$



one day seems quick.
looks like next winters goal.
I have no cable tv no antenna in the house wifi/antenna and heat in garage
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:38 PM   #5
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

I tried doing suspension fabrication on my truck with the body still on. Soon discovered that trying to do it the easy way was actually a lot more work, so I took it down to the frame.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:31 PM   #6
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

One day would be guys who have done several before and taking them a truck with a clean frame from the firewall forward with no grease and just the axle and steering on it. That is shocks and shock brackets removed and any thing that isn't needed on the front to roll it around removed and the frame as clean as possible.

I quit taking on outside jobs simply because the owners didn't understand that my time cleaning grease and grime and dirt and removing easy to remove pieces cost just as much an hour as doing the actual swap.

True though that sometimes it can be more prudent to pay someone to do all of the work cleaning and all. I've got sort of a friend (don't see him too often anymore) who's work takes up a lot of time and pays beyond seriously well and as much as he likes to work on his own stuff he finds that it is better to pay to have the work done and enjoy what time he has free from work driving the car or doing things with his family. Some jerkwad tried to play the "didn't do your own work" on one of his rides and he just said that if he didn't pay to have someone else to do it it would never get done. I have no issue with someone who can afford to pay to have everything done by a shop as I have several friends who own rod or custom shops that full and well depend on those people.
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Founding member of the too many projects, too little time and money club.

My ongoing truck projects:
48 Chev 3100 that will run a 292 Six.
71 GMC 2500 that is getting a Cad 500 transplant.
77 C 30 dualie, 454, 4 speed with a 10 foot flatbed and hoist. It does the heavy work and hauls the projects around.
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Old 09-28-2019, 12:08 PM   #7
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

When the time comes I likely will bribe with beer a couple of friends to help disassemble. Then clean strip shock brackets etc. Then pay shop to make it roll on new suspension then paint clean and reassemble. Would be "best" to clean strip blast as needed and "paint" inner fenders etc.
I had a disassembled truck that I lost motivation on.. I DO NOT. Want this to happen again.
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:11 PM   #8
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

there is more to doing a quality IFS install than a quick measure from a common point on the frame rails, welding in a crossmember and assembling a bunch of parts from a kit. there should be a bit of work to do before all that. first get all the old stuff off the frame and degrease everything so a quality weld can be done. do the frame straightness, squareness and sag checks, tire size mock up in fender opening done at ride height to ensure the tire looks right, steering column swap to connect properly including the wiring hookups etc, brake master cylinder change to accommodate disc brakes. I could go on. it's all time at a shop rate. before you take the truck apart get a written quote from the shop saying what they will be doing and also ask what equipment they have to accomplish the job. get a shop tour and see for yourself. you don't wanna end up in the same boat as before as far as half finished projects plus I don't imagine you want a larger bill for the rest of the repairs to finish the unit onjce taken apart. ensure you get a road legal driver when you pick it up if that is what you want.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:10 AM   #9
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

all great points.. time will tell how I go. dropping it off this afternoon to get transmission rear end swapped out. putting s10 4x4 rear and world class t5 under it. using stock springs.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:04 PM   #10
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

are you doing a stock ride height then or changing how the rear springs and axle stack up? the original torque tube rear axle to spring mounting was a different sort of thing, that hinged, and had the axle perch mounted differently on the tube, correct? if you simply weld a new perch onto the new rear axle and drop it onto the little nub of the spring bolt that holds the pack together and locates the axle on the springs then the axle will be out of center in the wheel opening I believe. there are new spring seats available with the correct hole placement for the job, so you can use the new axle on the old springs.

https://www.classicparts.com/1947-54...ctinfo/93-317/


here is a link that shows changing the axle and springs mount to be parallel and a kit to do that.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1949...3-chevy-truck/

for the IFS out front it will be important to know the ride height because the wheel looks different in the fender opening as the truck is lowered over the wheel. the axle centerline may need to change depending on how you like the look. the proper tire size is also important to the look so good to have a wheel/tire laying around for mock up.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:51 PM   #11
Marty68
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

a local race fab shop is doing it. he looked and we talked. he is aware of my final goal I would like about a 2"- 3" drop now with the ability to put blocks in when I do MII. we discussed the possibility of changing hangars and springs at this time. I know bad idea to give a shop a blank check. he does AWESOME work and has done several of these. yes we discussed the "hinge under axle" and centering the opening
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Old Today, 06:55 PM   #12
Marty68
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Re: MII with sheetmetal and engine in truck

May be done this week
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