Why 67 Axle is loose by 1/8

[josuito]

hello guys, I'm new here.
I have a 67 c10 step-side when I got it had the 6 lug so I did the 5x4.75 lug conversion front disc and rear (that's what the last owner gave me, me too, I taught it was going to be the 5x5 pattern). I left the same 67 differential, just changed the axles and I think some parts inside. Axle measures 30-3/4"

My mechanic guy said the axles on the differential were loose, you can pull/push them by about 1/8" or 1/4". Also, you can see the drum is not fully covering the whole area where the brake shoes and all that goes.

Now, What can I do there, do I put any washers inside the differential so it's tide or buy a new part? Any help will be appreciated, guys.

Thanks again.

[drfloyd]

I just put 5x4 3/4 on mine. That's no real issue. One is as good as the other. Is the bearing pressed all the way on the axle? I assume your play is between the bearing and the retainer. You may have to get a 1/8" shim to go between the retainer and bearing. My setup has that to kill out the thickness of the brake caliper mount and dust shield. I guess you could put the shim behind the bearing so you don't have to press it off and back on. That's a pain in the ass.

[josuito]

I'll try to put that shim this weekend, one on every side.
1- By adding that shim, Do I have to remove the differential cover and all that?
2- Doesn't it hurt it if I run it like that?

[drfloyd]

You don't have to remove the cover i don't think. Mine is a Moser 9" so it's different than yours. On mine all I would have to do is pull the axles, slide the shim on the axle and put it back together. My shims are on the outside so they were put on the axle before I pressed the bearings and press rings on. Just keep in mind that you want the bearing to be flush with the flat part of the axle housing, which is why my shims are on the outer side. They are there to just kill out the caliper mounts and dust cover.

[drfloyd]

If your moving 1/8" you probably only need 1 shim per side. My shims are 1/8.

[josuito]

Ok, let me try that, thanks.

I'll post the results...

[Bigdav160]

A long time ago I put five lug axles (out of a 72) in my '67. I made spacers to put behind the backing plates to solve the brake issue.

There should be push-pull clearance. 1/8" would be normal.

[Captainfab]

It sounds like the axles are too long for the housing. They are likely for a '71 and up housing which is 1.5" wider. So .750" per side. As for the axle end play, IMO 1/8" is a little excessive. I do not know of any shims that is going to fix this issue on a truck 12 bolt. The truck 12 bolt is very different from a 9 inch differential.

[GASoline71]

When I put 5 lug axles in my 1969 12 bolt housing, I ordered the 5 lug conversion axles from Moser Engineering. They are the correct length with flanges driller for the 5 lug bolt pattern.

Gary

[drfloyd]

I could be wrong about this but i don't think the issue he's describing has anything to do with the type rear end. That lateral movement can only be from the lateral movement of the bearing unless I'm missing something. When the bearing is inserted into the housing, ideally it should be flush with the end flange of the housing. If it's not, you will have lateral movement. That's why you use a 1/8 shim when you bolt the caliper mount and dust cover to the end. That's the thickness of those 2 items and the 1/8 shim kills that out. I don't see how shaft length would effect it either.

[Captainfab]

The truck 12 bolt does not use a pressed on axle/wheel bearing like a Ford 9" does. It is of a totally different design. The axle/wheel bearing is pressed into the axle housing end. So the bearing has absolutely nothing to do with lateral movement of the axle shaft. The lateral movement is due to either a worn spider pinion gear cross shaft or the ends of the axles are not long enough between the outside of the groove for the C-clip and the end of the axle. The issue of the drums not totally covering the shoes is likely due to the fact that someone installed axles for a '71-'82 truck 12 bolt into a '63-'70 12 bolt housing. The '71-'82 housings are 1.5" longer. This is not that uncommon as guys are trying to do a 5 lug conversion on the cheap and just use the axles from a '71-'82 truck 12 bolt regardless whether they are the correct length or not.

Originally Posted by drfloyd

I could be wrong about this but i don't think the issue he's describing has anything to do with the type rear end. That lateral movement can only be from the lateral movement of the bearing unless I'm missing something. When the bearing is inserted into the housing, ideally it should be flush with the end flange of the housing. If it's not, you will have lateral movement. That's why you use a 1/8 shim when you bolt the caliper mount and dust cover to the end. That's the thickness of those 2 items and the 1/8 shim kills that out. I don't see how shaft length would effect it either.

[drfloyd]

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification Captain. Never had a 12 bolt apart but I do know about the 9". So the bearing is pressed in the housing and the axle slides into the bearing?

[Captainfab]

Yes.

Originally Posted by drfloyd

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification Captain. Never had a 12 bolt apart but I do know about the 9". So the bearing is pressed in the housing and the axle slides into the bearing?

[PGSigns]

If it has that much sloop the carrier needs to be pulled apart and looked at. You can pull the cover and push the axles in and out and see what moves. Can be a combination of wear on the thrust surfaces in the carrier, the spider gears, the thrust washers and the pin. I have had a couple that were just worn out and needed to be changed was just no fixing them.
Jimmy

[josuito]

Thanks guys for your help, I took a friend of mine to help me and he said that that movement was normal (it moves horizontally about 1/8 in both sides). I removed the cover and look at the parts and they seem to be at a normal wear (he said). I guess this is normal when you do the conversion from 6 to 5 lugs at 4.75" patterns.

Hoping my axles not to fly away in the freeway....

If you think my friend could be wrong and lives are in danger, please let me know.

[cadillac_al]

I'll agree with your friend, C-clip axles usually have some side to side play. Some can be very sloppy. It's kinda weird to have your brakes sticking out of the drums but I guess it isn't that uncommon after all.

[Captainfab]

You can't be serious? Have you ever seen a factory original vehicle with the drake drums not totally covering the shoes?

Originally Posted by cadillac_al

I'll agree with your friend, C-clip axles usually have some side to side play. Some can be very sloppy. It's kinda weird to have your brakes sticking out of the drums but I guess it isn't that uncommon after all.

I as well as other knowledgeable members have expressed out thoughts on this. At this point all I have to add for the OP is good luck.

[cadillac_al]

I was only confirming that some side to side clearance is normal on C-clip axles and they won't fall out. Running longer axles with the brakes hanging out is a new one on me and may be ok for a cheap mud buggy but not safe for the street due to the lack of rear brakes. I guess everyone is in agreement that the OP has the wrong axles and needs to buy another set.

[josuito]

Thanks Guys, I'll be glad to buy new sets, if I have to. The drum covers pretty much all the brake components, it's just where the drum lip matches to the differential's round plate(where all the brake components are placed) That's all.

I think this truck will rear brake, dust and water will go inside quicker than others fully covering. It needs about 1/4" to 3/8" to fully cover.

I'm changing brakes this weekend, I'll snap some pics so you can see.

Thanks

[josuito]

Here are the images from my axles, as you can see it's just about 1/8 what is moving.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by josuito

Here are the images from my axles, as you can see it's just about 1/8 what is moving.

I didn't get images on my 'puter.

[josuito]

Originally Posted by 68gmsee

I didn't get images on my 'puter.

http://imgur.com/a/LWvOr

[PGSigns]

While the brake shoes are off slide the drum on and take a picture of how the drum fits up tot he backing plate. That will tell us a about the fit an if it is correct. It should tuck under the lip on the backing plate. Also take a picture of how the drum fits on the flange face. Is the hole in the drum the same size as the spigot sticking out the face of the axle. These drums are hub centric and should fit well on the hub. All this tells us if the axlaes are correct for the rear in the truck.
Jimmy

[Ironangel]

The Captain is correct. You have 71-72 axles that are longer than the previous years...If your running a 67 12-bolt housing you need the shorter pre-71 axles that did not come in 5-lug design, they are 6-lug only. The 1/8" play is not excessive as long as the cross pin is not worn. Like Gary suggested, you can get a pair of aftermarket axles for the 67 housing with 5-lug flanges. Like these, https://www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Produ...rd&ShowAA=true Or have a machine shop shorten your existing axles, much cheaper option...

[josuito]

I may probably take them to my uncle, he owns a machine shop. Just have him remove that extra on the ends right?