Color sand all panels?

[sfjone]

YUPP YUPP !!THATS PATIENT RIGHT THERE.��������
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[CC69Rat]

Put a whole bunch of work in getting panels straight and getitng the paint to look nice, why not color sand to absolute perfection?

The clear is as important as the primer and vise versa. Maybe someday I can paint my GMC but my stepper comes first.

[Tinkermc]

this is real good info here guys, the 1st coat of sealer or primer to the final coat of clear, each 1 is very important and should be as slick as possible. I painted at the Mercedes dealership and lastly the Lexus store. On my stuff I use a 3000 grit foam pad for final sanding. Some people will say it is overkill. I don't like buffing....Sanding is easier. At 3000 grit it is already starting to shine. Mostly on new cars you just have to match the factory orange peal.

[El Campo]

Subscribed. Looks like good info!

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

I mask it out and *lightly* spray over-reduced black basecoat on the panel, and then take a rag wetted with reducer and rub the guidecoat down into the scratches. You want it to be very thin so it doesn't clog the sandpaper. You can also just pour the basecoat mix on your towel and rub it on the panel, keeping it wet with thinner. It's harder to get it as even and thin that way but it works good for smaller panels.

I need to clarify this. **Don't** wipe on the reducer/basecoat guidecoat on fresh paint that hasn't fully cured! It will look fine right after you buff it but the reducer will affect the clear and you'll have marks/lines in the clear raise up after it sits a few days. This is only for fully cured paint, not something less than a few months old! I should have mentioned this to begin with, don't want anyone to have problems with this technique on fresh paint!

To avoid that on fresh paint, I'm using ground up compressed charcoal sticks from Hobby Lobby (art/crafts store) wiped on with a foam buffing pad for guidecoat. It works like 3M dry guide coat but cost just a few dollars to make. Stays on even when wet until you sand it off.

[CC69Rat]

Solid ~90 day cure from booth to initial 1000 cut and starting your process as stated? Sound about right?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

Solid ~90 day cure from booth to initial 1000 cut and starting your process as stated? Sound about right?

The only problem I've had with fresh paint and that process is the reducer will affect the paint and you'll see the pattern of wipe marks come back after it's buffed in the same pattern that it was rubbed on. Spraying it would probably be fine, since it wont' be as "wet" that way or have a "wiped on" pattern like wiping it on does. I haven't tried spraying on the guidecoat on fresh paint, but I'd suggest using a dry guidecoat instead.

You can sand and buff it as soon as it's dry enough if you use a dry guide coat. Using a dry guide coat like 3M or homemade powdered charcoal will work on fresh paint- there's no solvents to affect the still-soft paint. That's what I use to get a freshly painted panel sanded and buffed before it's fully cured. It's much easier to buff when the paint isn't fully cured out!

I'm currently sanding/buffing a '55 International pickup cab that I sprayed about 2.5 weeks ago using dry guidecoat. I tried the reduced basecoat on the dash panel and had problems since it's not cured, and wanted to let you guys know so you wouldn't have the same problem. The dry guidecoat isn't causing any problems, and it's easier to apply evenly. I'll post pics showing how that works.

[theastronaut]

Here's the dry guidecoat I made. It's compressed charcoal from an arts/crafts store, ground up by holding it against a 2" grinder disc over a paint cup to catch the dust. I cut down an old foam buffing pad to apply it. It gets down in the sanding scratches very well, and stays on until it's sanded off. This is over 1000 grit scratches.

[CC69Rat]

You are really good man .. Seriously. Maybe someday I'll get one this slick. Your work ethic is unparralelled, at least from anything I've ever seen. I'm a firm believer your work is only as good as what's underneath it. Each step is as important as the next. .. all the way up to final polish. I'd let you paint my trucks / cars no doubt.


So this stays on the panel even in the wetsanding stage? I bet it's rough on a black vehicle! Do they make white compressed charcoal (?) Sounds goofy I know but I think I recall seeing it at Hobby Lobby.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by CC69Rat

You are really good man .. Seriously. Maybe someday I'll get one this slick. Your work ethic is unparralelled, at least from anything I've ever seen. I'm a firm believer your work is only as good as what's underneath it. Each step is as important as the next. .. all the way up to final polish. I'd let you paint my trucks / cars no doubt.


So this stays on the panel even in the wetsanding stage? I bet it's rough on a black vehicle! Do they make white compressed charcoal (?) Sounds goofy I know but I think I recall seeing it at Hobby Lobby.

Thanks alot! I've still got alot to learn as this is only my third paint job, and the second one I've buffed (one was satin clear on a Jeep). I'm trying to do the best I know how because as you said, every step builds on the last and they've all got to be right for the surface to look good when you're done.

I'm pretty sure there's lighter versions of the charcoal sticks that would work on black or darker paints. Maybe it's made from albino charcoal.

[CC69Rat]

they make it apparently (??)

http://www.enasco.com/product/9727581

Might be something to think about too? Interesting stuff.

[iceship]

Nice.. nice..
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[1enick72]

very nice, I learned a bunch by ready this info.

[extremesounds13]

So quick question, if your shooting base/clear how much sanding do you do on the base color before you spray the clear? It obviously has to be pretty flat for the clear to go on smooth or am I wrong?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by extremesounds13

So quick question, if your shooting base/clear how much sanding do you do on the base color before you spray the clear? It obviously has to be pretty flat for the clear to go on smooth or am I wrong?

You don't sand the basecoat any before shooting the clear. If you need to nib out any trash in the base you can lightly sand those spots before spraying your last cost of base.
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[CC69Rat]

Metallic base - no sanding before clear. Straight color - youve got a little room to fix and touch up. But for the most part by the time you shoot base you want the panel absolutely laser straight. At this stave if you find bad places in it I would knock it back off and reshoot the base.. correct me if Im off base here...
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[extremesounds13]

Ok good to know. So does the orange peel only show up in the clear? I just wondered if you had to smooth the base but that answers my question. Thanks Guys

[CC69Rat]

In my experience ( which is not much ) the longer you can keep the clear wet the more it will lay out slick. But if you get it too slow it can run on you. Its a dance really but the best way to learn is to try.
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[CC69Rat]

Ryan -- Did you get your truck finished up?

We need pics!

[ryanmctee]

I've spent the better part of June on misc family vacations. I know what a bummer! Anyways, yesterday was the first day in a month I got to work on the truck. I haven't made tons of progress, but did get the steelie wheels painted white (they are going to get chrome beauty rings and dog dish caps on them), got the bed ready for spray in bedliner, and some misc electrical bugs worked out. I'll post some pictures as soon as my DAUGHTER can find the memory card for the camera . I'll post pictures and progress on my build thread. Thanks

[theastronaut]

Here's a few more tips on using Sharpie markings on edges and bodylines. Most people will tell you not to sand or buff anywhere near edges/lines or you'll cut through. Well, this leaves you with area that are slick as glass, and areas that still have orange peel. This technique only applies if you do the underlaying bodywork with the same block sanding style shown here, or you'll cut through the high/low spots of the paint when blocking the clear down. If your edges and bodylines aren't straight, the block will cut the high spots in a hurry.

I don't like the idea of cut/buffed surfaces and orange peeled edges and bodylines, so I started using a sharpie on the details to be able to sand them smooth as well. If you mark the edges with a sharpie, you can see exactly how much you're cutting so you cut just enough to level the surface and keep from sanding through the clear. This really makes the body lines stand out!


I use a zig-zag pattern for even coverage of the seam.






You want to sand the flatter part of the body line first, taking care not to sand in straight lines. If you sand in straight lines, you'll leave "drag" marks in the same shape as your block. Sand just enough to take the top of the sharpie off of the flat section, and leave a slight amount of marker showing in the creases. Don't go crazy on edges or bodylines with 1000 grit- it's too easy to burn through. Save that for the 2000 grit step.




Once the flat section is sanded, mask it off and sand the rounded part. This keeps you from sanding the edge further or slipping and digging into the flat part.




It's ok to have a little bit of sharpie showing after the 1000 grit step. This will be sanded off in the 2000 grit step. You can see the "X" pattern I used when sanding, so there's no drag marks or distortion from the edge of the sanding block.




After guidecoating and sanding with 2000/2500 (as shown in my earlier post) using the same masking technique show above.




And after buffing. Hold the buffer so the pad is spinning "off" the edges and isn't cutting into the edge. That keeps the edges from burning. On body lines, I like to used buffing pads that have a pointed edge, and sand in-line with the crease.

The body lines and edges look as good as the flat parts of the panels this way, and the whole panel is evenly flat- no orange peel spots anywhere. Sanding with 1000 grit gets the paint dead flat, and once it's brought back with 2000/2500 and buffing, the surface of the paint seemingly dissapears and all you see is the reflections. If you do it right and have no stray scratches or buffer marks, your eyes will have a hard time finding and focusing on the surface of the paint.

[CC69Rat]

You are incredible man.. really. Stuff like this takes years to learn and perfect. It seems you just have a touch for it. Its like you become one with the paint young jedi.

This is show quality work, no doubt.
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[ryanmctee]

Absolutely awesome. It's refreshing to find someone who takes so much pride in their work! This thread has become one of my favorites as far as the sanding/buffing process. Actually makes me look forward to another paint job so I can try some of the se techniques.

[CC69Rat]

I could seriously see myself painting every day. When I win the lottery I think I'll quit my IT job and just open a high end body shop.. and just sit there and smell paint all day. I could really do it all day, every day. I love it. I wish I would have started trying to learn about it years ago.

[screaminchevypickup]

Lol that's easy to say when you don't do it everyday!!
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