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10-19-2007, 06:28 PM | #1 |
The Man The Myth The Mystery
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I have been tossing around the idea of getting a new harness for my truck. My questin is not of what harness to get, thats already been figured out. As the title reads, I want to know what your preferred method and any pros and cons to the process. I am very experienced in both categories as I have spent my entire time in High School building universal street rod harnesses part time at my aunt and uncles company, but i never installed one.
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10-19-2007, 06:34 PM | #2 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Being an electrician and an anal one at that I always liked soldered with heat shrink connections.
After building a few custom bikes and seeing soldered wires break right where the solder ends I have rethought my connection technique. I have never once had a problem with a properly crimped/heat shrunk connection. I have done a lot of work in nuclear power plants and they crimp all their connections also. Last edited by Thealien; 10-19-2007 at 06:34 PM. |
10-19-2007, 07:52 PM | #3 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I used crimp ons for a long time in my "driveway" car audio.
Since rewiring my engine bay, I went with solder/heat shrink. Looks great and will last a very long time. The extra time it took me, I believe, is well worth it. Soldering is not hard to do, but...it can be done wrong. Once you get the feel for it, it's like riding a bike. Solder pros: very good, solid connection, will last cons: takes more time, need soldering gun, solder and patience and sometimes causes the occasional "f" bomb, lol crimp pros: good connection, easy to install, cheaper. cons: not as reliable as a soldered connection. These are just my opinions.
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10-19-2007, 08:09 PM | #4 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
The biggest problems with crimping are poor tools/ methods, which leave wire strands not in contact or cut off. Heat shrink not only provides corrosion protection, but equally as important- strain relief.
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10-20-2007, 12:57 AM | #5 |
its all about the +6 inches
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Solder is great in an ideal environment.... anywhere in a car/truck, will NEVER ben an ideal environment.
As indicated above, soldering does make a great connection, however, it also makes the wire just south of the connection, VERY brittle. Look at your stock harness. I can only think of one spot that has any solder... the rest, is all crimp ons. This holds true today in modern computer controlled cars too. |
10-20-2007, 01:43 AM | #6 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I have to agree with jeffspower. It's hard to have a bad solder connection if you know how to solder, AND what tool to use. In most cases a small 45 watt pencil iron will do just fine. With the addition of shrink tube you have a very stable connection.
In my business we make tons of solder connections and won't even consider a crimp connector as an option.
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10-20-2007, 07:22 AM | #7 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
i far prefer solder connections and haven't experienced any failures in breakage issues in the 45years or so of soldering connections with the epoxy filled shrink tubing to finish off the connection i end up with an excellent looking and performinbg connection// most of the crimp connectors that hobbyists use are just plain ugly and by thier design are a failure waiting to happen
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10-22-2007, 01:41 PM | #8 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I use a Weller soldering gun. With larger wires, it is VERY essential...a small iron will never get the wires hot enough for the solder to flow. I heat shrink, then do a thin wrap of 3M super 33+ for extra insurance. I make sure that the soldered connection is going to lay flat and wont be subjected to any bends or movement.
I agree with the statements about heatshrink. It is essential for strain relief. Most heatshrinks have an adhesive inside that will bond and seal to the wire once shrunk down, provided you chose the right size. This will keep any moisture out of the connection. Now of course for mass production, soldering all those connections would take forever which is why they came up with weatherpack connectors. Even when I work on friends or other peoples cars, i'm more inclined to use crimp connectors because it's a much easier solution and they work perfectly fine when crimped correctly. For my personal vehicles, it's worth it for me to take the extra time to solder. |
10-25-2007, 12:40 AM | #9 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Being a moderator can be a real pain, on some boards. But, THIS board is a piece of cake! You people are quietly discussing an issue that could ignite into fisticuffs on a lesser forum. Congrats!
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10-25-2007, 06:40 PM | #10 | |
The Man The Myth The Mystery
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Quote:
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10-25-2007, 06:46 PM | #11 |
The Man The Myth The Mystery
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Des Moines, IA
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Thank you that is more or less what i was shooting for. Since I noticed that on the faq's there was no thread that gave any insight to the choices.
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10-25-2007, 11:59 PM | #12 |
Hellasick
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
solder, solder, solder!!!!!!
I always use paste flux no matter if it is solid or resin core solder. I would really like to see someone get a "factory" crimp with normal crimping pliers. for best results, use a shrink tube WITH ADHESIVE. The adhesive will melt with the heat used to shrink the tube and seal out the elements that rot out normal crimp connections.
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10-26-2007, 04:57 AM | #13 |
its all about the +6 inches
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
by normal crimping pliers, you talking normal profesional tools... or normal k-mart tools?
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10-26-2007, 06:39 AM | #14 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I have trouble finding quality crimp connectors sometimes. 3M seems decent, and the OEM connectors work pretty wall. I try to solder high current connections like for HEI and alternators.
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10-26-2007, 09:16 AM | #15 |
Damn Yankee
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
soldered connections are my preference IF you have the tools and skills to do proper joints. 99% of all solder joints fail UNDER the insulation where you can't see it. This is because of the "Wicking" of solder up into the wire. You should use anti-wicking tools just ahead of the insulation on both sides of the joint. The anti-wicking tool is basically a heat sink that prevents solder from running up the wires and under the insulation. I usually "Tin" both leads then use a pair of round nose pliers to form "U" shapes. I then hook the "U"s together and close them for a good mechanical connection add a touch of flux, hit the joint with the iron and add a minimal amount of solder. Almost all flux, except "No clean", becomes corrosive so you should clean each joint with a spray can of slide-wire cleaner, trichlorafloramethane (SP?), or spray alcohol to get rid of all flux residue. Now slide your heat shrink tubing over the joint and shrink it. If you plan on doing a lot of soldering buy a good soldering iron like a Metcal...they're worth their weight in gold.
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10-26-2007, 12:22 PM | #16 |
Java Mechanic
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I am moving from a "don't care" postion to supporting solder mostly because I am developing arthritus and crimpers make my hands ache something fierce.
In practice; I actualy go for ease more than "best" on this. I crimp when I need disconnects (like distributor leads) and solder where I feel anal (like stereo connections.)
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10-28-2007, 07:01 PM | #17 | |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Quote:
If you solder correctly not an issue with weakness, I have seen solder connections break when stressed too much. Factory crimps are great, they use a machine and have quality control. Most hand crimpers aren't worth crapola. I buy my connectors at Napa, they seem to be a better quality then I actual solder them together, them heat shrink if ness. I use solderless connectors when not feasible to solder. I try to never use them under the hood or where exposed to weather, then always with heat shrink.
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10-28-2007, 11:51 PM | #18 |
BlahBlahBlah
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I have to agree with Longhorn Man on this one. If you use the right tool and decent connectors I think a crimped end will work better and be more reliable.
Wiring harnesses in a vehicle are subjected to all sorts of crazy environmental changes, plus they can move. Solder, even well soldered connections can crack in those conditions. Personally I prefer not to take a chance. Chasing down electrical problems on the side of the road isnt something I like doing. Heck I dont like doing it in a warm garage I have these crimpers. I have around 10 different crimp jaws I can put in em. |
11-01-2007, 10:51 PM | #19 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I like to do the super-anal thing and crimp then solder. When I was adapting the factory 89 TBI harness for my 68, I found that GM had a lot of multi wire splices (power and ground distribution) put together with a crimp sleeve and solder. That seems bulletproof to me. Cover it with shrink tube or good tape and call it done.
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11-02-2007, 12:12 AM | #20 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I'll repeat some stuff and add a (very) little...
There's nothing wrong with a properly crimped connection, or a properly crimped and soldered connection. Agreed on the solder and crimp if solder will be used. Solder has about zero strength (lead and tin alloy) and requires a good mechanical bond (crimp) before soldering. Also, as stated, good tools. Pliers aren't crimpers, and there are a lot of different crimp connectors that require various different crimpers. Crimping technique is also of interest. Think of a round butt connector. Its a flat peice of metal rolled into a cylinder leaving a seam. The jaws of the crimping tool should squeeze the seam and make it tighter. If a connection of any sort flexes a lot, its going to break, regardless of whether its criped, or crimped and soldered. Tie the wires down several inches away from the connection to minimize flexing at the connector. Shrink tubing is good, looks good, and helps as a strain relief. Finally, the individual strands in a multiconductor wire are twisted together in a certain way. Generally if you hold the end of the wire in youre left hand and twist the strands together with your right, your right hand should turn to the right, or clockwise. Think of a jar in your left hand, and putting the lid on... Twisting the other way is bad... Last edited by 72lb4x4; 11-02-2007 at 12:13 AM. |
11-02-2007, 03:51 PM | #21 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I used to solder, but now favor crimping as being just as good of connection and much quicker to do, and less mess to deal with.
As others stated, a good crimp tool is key,and I favor the one in the link. It double crimps in one shot, and can really crimp tight. (The pivot has mechanical advantage, sort of like vice-grips, instead of the usual sort that are more like pliers.) http://www.ancorproducts.com/scpt/Pr...m=701030_Ancor I also always use marine stainless crimp fittings. And also usually marine grade tinned wire. This wire has more strands for a given wire gage size. More strands means more flexible, less likely to fail from vibration (work hardending and then cracking). |
11-02-2007, 03:54 PM | #22 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
Oh... looks like CG already posted a pic of these crimpers.
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11-04-2007, 11:13 AM | #23 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
so, anyone else out there use a dab of dielectric grease on a crimp connector, then heatshrink over that?
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11-04-2007, 12:55 PM | #24 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
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11-08-2007, 10:41 AM | #25 |
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Re: Soldered connections VS Crimped connections. The great debate!
I like the crimp-n-seal connectors, I little expensive put very nice product.
Stay away from the solder-n-seal those are absolute junk.
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