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Old 06-21-2017, 09:32 PM   #26
rkn463
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

First of all, I love your truck! It's great to see the progress as well.

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You notice that the bed doesn't require tubs for the wheels. The floor will be square and flat.
That is interesting, I had about decided the same for the bed in my 68 but not knowing the final tire size or what full compression would look like on the springs I was afraid to loose the wheel wells. On the 68 I had to raise the bed about 5 inches off the frame to line up with the cab, is yours similar? Also what size 22.5 tires are you running and what is the wheel width?

Keep up the great work!

-Richard
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:21 AM   #27
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

I'm figuring 5 inches also. That will give me room for the dump system. The tires are 9:00 --22.5 because I need the same circumpherence as the fronts. They are 8:25--20 mud & snow. I wanted mud and snow for the rears but, didn't find any in 9:00
I have 2 different wheel widths. I didn't measure them. I had to put the skinnies to the inside to make sure that I have clearance for chains.
I have 6 leftover widow-maker rins with snow tires. I might keep a couple for spares.
The mixed rims are all that I could find. I'm happy to have splits / tube type on the front because I can drop the pressure in sand.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:57 AM   #28
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

First off I love the truck man! I actually just posted about getting info on those front fenders because I want to try and mold them to make flares that match all around for tire coverage maybe that would work for you guys too.


Are your rims split rims or split ring rims? If split rims you couldnt give me a set to lower or raise the pressure in, split rings on the other hand aren't as terrible but I know people still dont like them especially when try to seat the tire for first time.

I'm not sure if bolt pattern is same but m939 trucks came with 11r20 goodyear G177 radials on them, split ring wheels with tubes but the tires themselves are made to be tubeless. You can find these tires pretty easy, I had them but went to 425's for flotation.
Your fronts remind me of the old armstrong M&S pattern, samson has them in 9.00-20 and 10.00-20 if you went back to 20's all around, they also make some aggressive tread 22.5's but not in a 9.00-22.5

https://simpletire.com/samson-10.0020-10069-2-tires

https://simpletire.com/samson-9.0020-90049-2-tires
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:55 AM   #29
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

I really don't have much use for fat tires. I have a 1 ton dually, 4 wd camper that weighs 10,000 lbs. It has 235-16 tires on it. I can make a u-turn in the soft sand at Pismo while pulling the buggy trailer.
I like skinnys because, they get through the top layer of mud and grab the base.
The six 10 lug wheels that I have are the ONLY rims I could find. The fronts are a one-piece wheel with a single lock ring. The only problem i've seen with split-ring wheels is; somebody had beat up the rings at an earlier dismount. Once the ring is distorted, it is a real problem.
I assembled my wheels just by kicking the ring.

I expect to use my truck in the woods. I do not like the idea of having steel flares sticking out where they will catch on things. You remember when Chevy came out with their dually. Everybody hooked a fender and ripped it.
I thought of buying nice trailer fenders and screwing them on to the bed-side. If I hooked them, I could just take them off.
This truck has round fenders, https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5b2baea09f.jpg

I'll go with rubber flares for now.
There is another problem that some people just don't seem to understand. I've seen pics of a few trucks that have big singles.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1385411062
This is death for your thumbs. The center of the tire must be lined up with the center of the kingpin. If not, you get "bump steer". The steering wheel will be flying every which way. If you have your thumbs through the spokes, you can lose them.

10.00--20 may look nice and big but, I don't have power steering. I see trucks around SoCal that have been adapted to run 11R-24.5. I'm sure that they ride as bad as a forklift. My C-50 doesn't weigh much and I need some flex in the sidewalls to get traction and a decent ride. Looking at the stock rear springs, I don't see any way to get a decent ride. I thought of taking out a few leaves and adding spacers instead. I don't see much spring compression in the future.

I have an F-650 boom truck with the same tire arrangement. It only weighs 6200 lbs and is sprung for 17,000. You can imagine what it rides like.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:58 PM   #30
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

The 11r20 that I was suggesting is the skinny tire to the left and on my truck with a 14L cummins they sank in soft fields, the 425's had wheels that tucked them under truck pretty far so no problems with the bump steer. I was not suggesting you go to super singles or anything like that.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:42 PM   #31
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Only in my dreams do I find rims with such a nice offset and width.
I'm guessing that you have an NTC 300 or something similar. My 292 doesn't weigh anything. You definitely need all the flotation you can get for the weight.
My truck is mostly just for play. My place in Myrtle Point, Oregon is close to the Oregon sand dunes but, I don't see anything but flat sand in the future.
I'll be up on the logging roads poaching feral cattle. I built a BIG underground pit BBq and I need some practice.

They do sell 8.25 X 22.5 blank Aluminum rims on E-bay. I thought about it but, there is far too much offset for the inside dual to clear the spring.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:12 PM   #32
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannny B View Post
...My C-50 doesn't weigh much and I need some flex in the sidewalls to get traction and a decent ride. Looking at the stock rear springs, I don't see any way to get a decent ride. I thought of taking out a few leaves and adding spacers instead. I don't see much spring compression in the future...
I've been considering losing a bunch of leaves from my spring packs and then adding air bags to get the best of both worlds. Either that or haul a thousand pounds or so of ballast to give it a better ride.

-Richard
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:01 PM   #33
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

After so many years a spring pack just turns solid. That's why Chrysler tried to run mono-leafs. Most of the newer trucks try to run mono-leaf with air bags. The old Rolls Royce had lubricated springs wrapped in leather enclosures. A lot of packs have little slippers of nylon. All of this is done to reduce inter-leaf friction. I'll probably take out 1/2 the leaves, starting at the shortest.
I have air bags on my wood-gas truck.

A company I know bought Macks for front-loader trash service. The drivers refuse to drive them because it causes so much back pain.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:08 PM   #34
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration parking brake

I need this part. I hope that the image comes through the first time.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:31 PM   #35
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration,, almost lost it

I took my chevy for only the second drive since I got it together. I'm still working on the dump bed. The truck is way low-geared and I wanted to see if it would reach highway speed. Night time, WIDE street,,, I pushed it to 55 mph. All of a sudden, it began shaking VIOLENTLY, all over the road. I let off the gas but, nothing would bring back control. I finally locked up the brakes to try to save it. I ended up in the center and aimed backwards and crosswise.
It was so violent that the back step bumper ripped off. The tags are expired and I didn't want to hang around. I lost all my rear lights when the bumper ripped off. I picked up the pieces and took off. After about 2 miles I heard a noise and smelled something bad. The battery was upside down being whacked by the fan. I had to grab the wet battery and pull it up to the tray. The fan sprayed acids around the engine compartment.
Fortunately, the truck restarted but, I was in traffic without lights. I finally made it back home and washed down the battery and my hands.
In the second leg of the trip, the mudflaps and license plate disappeared.

The front axle can set up an oscillation just because it wants to. Even if you have hold of the steering wheel, the entire axle can shift side-to-side.
This is from a Jeep site.
"There are few things more terrifying than experiencing "death wobble" in your Jeep for the very first time. More times than not, it'll happen out of the blue soon after hitting a bump in the road or a pot hole, driving over a rough set of rail road tracks or even after driving over rhythmic sections of expansion joints in a concrete laid highway. The sensation is unbelievably violent and so much so that it can feels as if your whole Jeep is about to tear itself apart. You literally feel as if you're about to die and the only way to get it to stop is to bring your Jeep to a stop. Unfortunately, some people become so traumatized by death wobble that they become reluctant to drive their Jeep again and others go so far as to sell it."

The article talks all about maintaining your "track bar". The Chevy doesn't have a track bar but, I rsoon will.

https://wayalife.com/showthread.php/...n-Do-to-Fix-it
BTW, the battery is new. I patched the hole with The Right Stuff
and it is fine.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:56 PM   #36
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

old bias ply tires help this problem to show up .

loose to no pre-load on king pin system also .

and only 2 ways to stop this on the drive . #1 = STOP and #2 = crazy horse power to power threw it witch 95% of us dont have under the hood .

trac bar wont help you much on our style axles . its the play in the king pin area of the knuckle that gets to bouncing .

that jeep in the first pic is a 4 link front coil sprung axle setup . way diffrent than our old super stiff leaf spring setups we run .

also if you want to try anything cheep first these trucks should have a steering dampener on the tie rod setup for sure . newer style vehilces after these were made got them . easy to retro fit on also .
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:47 PM   #37
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

The front axle uses closed trunions with huge timken bearings that are shimmed to tolerance / fit. Got no kingpins. The tires still had the paper stickers on them. 8:25-20 mud & snow.
The 292 single barrel carb has no crazy HP. There was no way that I was going in a staright line anyway. I've had excellent luck with track bars before on straight axles. I have zero faith in steerring dampners. I've cured this problem before with a track bar.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:45 AM   #38
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Hi Dan,
Sorry to hear about this problem, it definitely takes some wind out of your sails. I am thankful that the result was not worse.

I had some experience with death wobble myself. A number of years ago we had an 80 model 4x4 3/4 ton Chevy truck on the ranch. It had those wide white spoke wheels that were so popular in the 80s and 90s. They were still 15" and the tires were maybe 12" wide. The main difference was that the offset put them far outboard of where the stock wheels would sit. At 40 mph or so the front end would just go berserk and you just about had to come to a stop to settle it back down. I hated that truck. Along the way we ran across a 73 that although very rusty was a good solid truck that drove well. We bought it to replace the 80 and switched the wheels/tires from the 80 and we suddenly had death wobble on the 73. (The 73 had street tires when we bought it) We finally bought some "skinny" 16" mud grips for the stock wheels on the 73 and the problem went away again. I think that the wheels sitting outbound at all from stock is the biggest contributor of all. As you are probably aware a straight line drawn through the pivot point of the knuckles should hit the ground at the center of the tire. If I remember correctly didn't you have mismatched wheels or am I confusing your build with another?

Again, I'm glad you are safe.

-Richard
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Old 10-07-2017, 08:56 AM   #39
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

I had this happen in my 5000 when I first got it. Scared me pretty good being in a big truck with no power steering with death wobble.

My remedy (as SweetK30 has said), get a steering dampener. I installed one of the draglink and so far so good. If you hit a man-hole cover the right way it wavers just a bit, but a quick jerk on the steering wheel keeps it from going further... new front shocks should take care of that (still has originals).

I have an IFS front end that is a bit worn and old bias plys.

Steering stabilizer is for a motor home, was the heaviest one I could find on ebay. A Roadmaster Reflex.

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Old 10-07-2017, 09:55 AM   #40
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

I took off the widow-maker rims and got some splits (2 piece) that had the same offset. I know about bump-steer and i want no part of it,,, especially with manual steering.
You're right about those old white spoke rims. Too much positive offset.
I've built other trucks with straight axles.
The spring eyes are the attachment point. The spring center is the lowest point. What I've seen happen is; the center whips left and right. The chevy springs are slipper type with only one bushing,,, and no shackle. That one bushing just isn't enough when the truck is raised (NAPCO blocks). Also, the springs are pretty narrow for the weight of the truck. Later stuff has wider springs and the U-bolts get a better grip.
I'm changing the U-bolts today.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:28 PM   #41
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

I made up mounts and a track bar. NAPCO should have thought of that when they changed from a dropped axle to a straight axle. That aggravates the problem. I'm making progress on the dump bed too.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:31 PM   #42
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

My parking brake is currently hooked up to a cable. The handle / lever to activate it seems bogus and it isn't mounted to anythjing solid. If anyone knows what brake and cable it should have, drop me a line.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:06 PM   #43
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Finally mated the bed to the cab & chassis. I need to cover a few inches of tire at the rear.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:46 PM   #44
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy long bed fleetside dump bed

I'm not to keen on loading tall trucks. I'm even less keen on unloading them. Figured I needed a dump bed.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:18 PM   #45
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Looking good.
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:43 AM   #46
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

That is one neat truck! I'm glad you kept the original wheels too... Out of all these conversions I see I think this one is my favorite.
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:38 AM   #47
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

Thanks, Jake. I HAVE the original wheels,,, widowmakers. I'm keeping them with the thought of putting chains on them for mud and snow. The tires aren't good enough for the highway,,,, probably 25--30 years old. These are the ONLY 10 lug wheels that I have found. Split 20s on the front and 22.5s on the rear.
I still have to do the floor of the bed. Since the truck will end up in Rainy Western oregon eventually, I'm planning to just use galvanized sheet steel.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:43 PM   #48
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

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Thanks, Jake. I HAVE the original wheels,,, widowmakers. I'm keeping them with the thought of putting chains on them for mud and snow. The tires aren't good enough for the highway,,,, probably 25--30 years old. These are the ONLY 10 lug wheels that I have found. Split 20s on the front and 22.5s on the rear.
I still have to do the floor of the bed. Since the truck will end up in Rainy Western oregon eventually, I'm planning to just use galvanized sheet steel.
That wouldn't be a bad idea... it would save you from having these ones getting marred up from the chains.
More than anything it's just having the steel wheels. More times than not I see them dang alcoa's on these trucks, can't stand those things on old iron. Cool truck though.

Got some work cut out for it in Oregon?
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:51 PM   #49
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration

If you search 15961 highway 42, Myrtle Point, Or..... google maps, you will see that my 10 acres is in the hills with MILES of logging roads, etc. The hills are full of the usual, deer, elk, bear, cougar and LOTS of mean feral cattle.
I built a 6' X 6' X 3' underground pit BBQ. I also have a "venison" tree. It looks like an apple tree but, the deer think it is deer cocaine.
I'm on the banks of the Coquille river and it runs salmon and steelhead.
The truck is mostly a big toy but, I will use it for logs and firewood.
I also have a Dodge Dakota, wood-gas truck that will need firewood.
In case of hard times, I have a wood cook stove and a wood-fired water heater. And a couple of wood stoves for heat.
I see a lot of muddy roads in the future for this truck.
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Old 12-17-2017, 10:22 PM   #50
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Re: NAPCO C-50 Chevy restoration,,, need rear flares

I need a couple of flares to keep the mud off the sides of the bed. There are a couple of C-50s with flares and I need to know what the original application was. Any ideas?
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